Main Street U.S.A. hub redevelopment at the Magic Kingdom

[Pumbaa1222]

This isn't JUST about fireworks. Its about general flow around the park. We want more entertainment, we want Main St vehicles. With MiSi, FoF, MSEP, and projection shows, there are very few times when it's easy to cross the park right now. This can relieve a lot of the pressure. Sure, that doesn't explain away the trees, but overall, this HAS to help with crowd control and general flow.

 

[Jose]

will this project bring more trees?

 

[kap91]

Why did fireworks sightlines suddenly become such an issue when Wishes was introduced? The Magic Kingdom had been putting on fireworks shows with those trees in the Hub for years.

Wishes saw the introduction of a slew of launch sites inside the park on the rooftops of the fantasyland buildings (that's how you get the shooting star effect, the "fans" of fireworks on either side of the castle etc.)In fact a very substantial portion of Wishes comes from these launch sites. These fireworks are (NOT apparently)mostly or entirely launched through compressed air to a relatively low height. Fantasy in the Sky primarily (or actually I think solely)used the big launch site behind the park which launches fireworks to a much higher altitude. While I'm no fan of the trees missing in the hub, if they were there a majority of the cool effects of Wishes would not be seen by or would be obscured for at least half the audience.

 

[marni1971]

Why did fireworks sightlines suddenly become such an issue when Wishes was introduced?

Because prior to Wishes, the Fantasy in the Skies was just that. In the sky. Often better seen from Main Street as opposed to the hub, and the same show from anywhere in the park you could see (aside from the obligatory photo of fireworks and castle in the same shot)

The last version on FitS introduced castle lighting and gobo projection in sync with the show but it wasn't nessecary to see. Wishes changed the game with its narrative, story, low level pyro and using the castle as part of the show. More guests realised the best place to enjoy the whole show was with the castle in the foreground.

 

[marni1971]

These fireworks are mostly or entirely launched through compressed air to a relatively low height.

Not in Orlando their not.

 

[kap91]

Not in Orlando their not.

Maybe I'm thinking of daytime pyro and illuminations?

 

[DVCOwner]

According to Pyro Universe web site, almost all the fireworks at Disney Parks are lunched with compressed air. Here is how they say they work "Pyro Spectaculars Inc.,makes Disneyland's Fireworks. They were designed without a lift charge to reduce pollution. Disney Hong Kong had to make some kind of adjustment in order to meet pollution standards in Hong Kong and that is what lead to the development of the air-fired guns. And yes they have a chip in each shell that fires it when the shell meets it's apex."

I love fireworks and put on a large show each year for the 4th of July. Luckily got back stage on my last trip to Walt Disney World for something and I got to see one of the lunch sites at that Park used for Wishes. Most of the shells where in compressed air tubes and some of the "fans" where not. I am not for sure what percentage of shells are compress air and how many use a lift charge, but at the site I saw they had both. Most where compressed air.

 

[ABQ]

Not in Orlando their not.

Can you go into any detail on why the ALF never succeeded?

 

[marni1971]

Can you go into any detail on why the ALF never succeeded?

Certainly for RoE they ran out of stock and legal issues meant they couldn't restock. TDO then pulled funding for an alternative. Remember RoE only had 3 chipped shells per show.

Wishes is complete powder. The website mentioned above by @DVCOwner is wrong.

 

[mm121]

Ridiculous? is it ridiculous to keep space mountain ride vehicles even tho there is a line for it 365 days a year? Or is it ridiculous that Disney doesn't put jumbo trons all over the hub so more people could see the stage show?

Jumbo Trons to see the stage show really wouldn't be a bad idea.. especially if they use these so they could completely disappear out of site when not in use.. they could also be used to expand wishes viewing to other areas.

Porsche Design Studio C SEED 201 - The World´s Largest Outdoor LED TV

And therein lies the only real argument you have -- you say its a dumb idea. I didn't realize people paid thousands of dollars to experience trees. We have those where I live, not sure about you. I do pay thousands of dollars to experience things like wishes. As do most visitors to WDW.

its good to have some trees but i do definitely agree that going to the MK is about seeing the Castle not about seeing trees all over the place.

- The MK was designed for around ten million visitors. It currently receives seventeen, pushing on eighteen. This puts tremedous strain on all operational assects, a great many of which are adressed as we spweak: a MS back alley, extra ferry dock, extra bathrooms, extra buses (and to think there were no buses planned to begin with!)

Did MK not originally have the bus stop for groups up by the gate at all? allowing groups to bypass the need to use the monorail/ferries?

I dont know what the maximum capacity limits are for MK, but it seems that they are set EXTREMELY high causing situations like happened on NYE where the whole place was wall to wall people.

I wish that instead of gutting the MK for an industrial holiday processing plant, WDW would, or would've, opted to build a second MK. That is, the kiddie cartoon park of the tv commercials that never was and always will be. Then you can move all the Pixar and princesses and Junkie Sparrow nonsense there, so you can sell the MK as the authentic adult park.

Tokyo managed a succesful new gate that relieved the pressure on the castle park. DCA 2.0 managed it too. As did EPCOT Center, before they destroyed it. How come modern WDW with all the space in the world and four theme parks can't manage to spread the crowds?

Building more doesn't always solve the problem as MK will always be iconic and can't really be replicated. And building more just means more people want to come.

Similar to the recent focus on character meet & greets, it blows my mind that they put such a huge focus on something that really has a low capacity compared to the park's capacity, leading to the overcrowding issues we have now. If they could design a show that could be seen from more vantage points, or create alternate vantages for the existing show, they could sidestep a big part of this problem. But I don't see that going over well for the folks that they've brainwashed into thinking Wishes is the greatest thing ever (far from it, IMO) and that it *must* be seen from the hub (which it sort of doesn't)

More vantage points wold be a good thing.. I know it would be extremely complex and thus wont happen, but in an ideal world some of the empty roof space would be converted to premium viewing areas, vs creating fastpass space down in the main area of the hub.

This isn't JUST about fireworks. Its about general flow around the park. We want more entertainment, we want Main St vehicles. With MiSi, FoF, MSEP, and projection shows, there are very few times when it's easy to cross the park right now. This can relieve a lot of the pressure. Sure, that doesn't explain away the trees, but overall, this HAS to help with crowd control and general flow.

years and years ago there was a skyride that went accross the middle of the park enabling access to both sides without walking.. not fully sure why it was removed, but it would be nice to have a transport system going accross the park, though it would have had to be incorporated into the initial design.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Maybe I'm thinking of daytime pyro and illuminations?

Daytime Pyro and illumination's are all Blackpowder…

I know that they once toyed with using a compressed air launch system for some shells… But I believe that's ended

But ask Martin to be sure. He knows his stuff when it comes to This

 

[Nubs70]

The old Fantasy in the Sky fireworks shows were basically just a bunch of random fireworks, with Disney music playing. When they created Wishes in 2003, it became much more of an 'experience' type show, which needed to be seen from the right angle. Instead of just stopping where you were and watching the show in the sky anywhere in the park, you now needed to more-or-less have a view of the castle in order to see the projections and low-level pyro that fill in the 'gaps' in the show

DL has a similar problem when they introduced Remember in 2005. They ended up creating 'alternate' viewing areas in front of it's a small world (where they did some of the earliest architectural mapping projections) and Rivers of America (using some of the Fantasmic! infrastructure) to help disperse the crowds. With the amount they're investing in the hub redo, they could easily create a new fleet of fireworks shows that solve the problem

Similar to the recent focus on character meet & greets, it blows my mind that they put such a huge focus on something that really has a low capacity compared to the park's capacity, leading to the overcrowding issues we have now. If they could design a show that could be seen from more vantage points, or create alternate vantages for the existing show, they could sidestep a big part of this problem. But I don't see that going over well for the folks that they've brainwashed into thinking Wishes is the greatest thing ever (far from it, IMO) and that it *must* be seen from the hub (which it sort of doesn't)

I find the best place to watch Wishes is from the patio of the train station. The only improvement would be to dim the lights illuminating said train station.

 

[jrh1985]

Anyone know why TS is not dimmed? I think DL dim theirs. Do we have more foot traffic in TS during CTM and Wishes? Fantasy In The Sky was never dimmed up to the last few NYEs, why?

 

[tirian]

I wish that instead of gutting the MK for an industrial holiday processing plant, WDW would, or would've, opted to build a second MK. That is, the kiddie cartoon park of the tv commercials that never was and always will be. Then you can move all the Pixar and princesses and Junkie Sparrow nonsense there, so you can sell the MK as the authentic adult park.

Tokyo managed a succesful new gate that relieved the pressure on the castle park. DCA 2.0 managed it too. As did EPCOT Center, before they destroyed it. How come modern WDW with all the space in the world and four theme parks can't manage to spread the crowds?

Thanks to Internet myths that won't die ("EPCOT was a failure"), fanbois tend to forget that Epcot Center was extremely successful and helped spread crowds throughout the resort.

 

[wdwmagic]

Daytime Pyro and illumination's are all Blackpowder…

I know that they once toyed with using a compressed air launch system for some shells… But I believe that's ended

But ask Martin to be sure. He knows his stuff when it comes to This

RoE used air launch for the opening 3 shots for about 10 years right from opening day. Supplies ran out of the control chips and they suspended their use and replaced the opening shots with regular black powder launch.

 

[Maerj]

2015

They do take their time with these things, don't they?

 

[FerretAfros]

Did MK not originally have the bus stop for groups up by the gate at all? allowing groups to bypass the need to use the monorail/ferries?

That area was originally used as a tram drop-off area. It's not clear to me whether people took 2 trams (from the parking lot to TTC, from TTC to MK) or if it was all one trip, but there was a third option connecting TTC and MK. Additionally, the old TTC bus loop is still there, just past the Monorail station. I think it serves some city buses (Lynx), but hardly has any traffic these days

Building more doesn't always solve the problem as MK will always be iconic and can't really be replicated. And building more just means more people want to come.

Idono...it didn't seem like it was too difficult to replicate DL into MK. I don't think it would be that much more of a challenge to replicate MK

Do your second point, I believe that WDW has established that they are more or less at capacity, and building more attractions won't bring additional guests or extend vacations. Instead, building new things shifts crowd patterns, but doesn't really generate the additional revenue that they would get from selling more tickets. Enter MM+, which was supposed to control crowd flow better and be able to squeeze additional money from the same old allotment of guests. And we all know how that worked out...

 

[Expo_Seeker40]

The trees in the MK's hub were designed to push the castle further back; to give the illusion that it was actually taller and farther away when you first saw it from Main Street. The hub itself was also used as a cozy, shady, quiet transitional area. You couldn't just see Tomorrowland via the Adventureland bridge, or vice versa. The hub trees were used as "stage curtains" to help slowly reveal the next land you came upon as you navigated the hub.

@WDW1974 knows all about my fascination with the hub trees. The spirit tried to get me to go to a free clinic to resolve my sorrows about the trees being removed, but we ended up going to a Fuddruckers instead.

Here is a picture of the hub in 1991, granted the trees were overgrown in this photo (they did get trimmed from time to time over the years)

This picture from July 2003, shows the hub trees as well as the large trees before you get to the hub that were removed for the castle projection show.

The hub trees were removed in September 2003 to make way for Wishes in October 2003.

The hub was then redone/flattened out (original 1971 circular faux brick benches, planters, etc were all removed around 2005 for the global 50th anniversary of Disneyland.

And here is the hub today. Barren, flat, with a Castle plopped right down at the end of Main Street saying "LOOK AT ME I'M HERE!" with no sense of foreground (the trees) to push the castle further back and also help draw you toward the castle as you could see it peaking up from behind the trees.

The hub is extremely barren, and doesn't help in of all places...FLORIDA. Hopefully the new hub's outer ring of trees will help provide some shade at the very least.

 

[novawildcat18]

^That's the first post that's ever convinced me that I may have preferred the hub with some foliage. Although if it was between trees in the hub and a castle projection show, I will take the projection show every time. The projection shows never fail to impress me.

 

[Jose]

Well, they're going to add more trees, and trees in the hub, but with less height than before.