News Main Street Photo Supply Co. Being Replaced By Plaza Point Holiday Shoppe

[TP2000]

@mickEblu, I just went and Googled the word "latine". I'm still unclear on how it's pronounced, but I got this as the top Google blurb from Wikipedia, and it speaks volumes...

"Latine (plural: Latines) as a gender-neutral term is less prevalent than Latinx. It arose out of genderqueer speakers' use of the ending ⟨-e⟩; similar forms include amigue ('friend') and elle (singular 'they')."

The word Latinx is only used by 3% of Latinos (a figure I find suspiciously high, even at just 3%), and Latine is "less prevalent than Latinx". So maybe 1% of Latinos use the word Latine? Or 0.5% use it? And it "arose out of genderqueer speakers" use of Spanish.

I'm not "genderqueer", I have no idea what genderqueer even means. I'm just a good, old-fashioned, martini-swilling, AbFab-watching, Show Tune-whistling, wise-cracking, interior-redecorating, gay man. What the heck is "genderqueer"? And what bar do they go to on a Saturday night? And instead of doing Karaoke or dancing, they change Spanish grammar randomly as entertainment? I'm baffled.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I figured it was something along these lines. Deemed more appropriate by who? None of the Latinos I know use the term.

Yeah, but those are the ones you know. There are others who do refer to themselves as “Latine.” I can’t give you the exact number, but they’re out there.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Really? I think it's fabulous stuff, especially Viva Navidad.

I mean, Viva Navidad has no time-traveling Puerto Rican woman of tremendous wealth running a small town Christmas shop in the Midwest of 1905. But they try hard!

It’s nice and entertaining, sure. But no, it’s not something I would consider to be an attraction that does California Latine culture justice.

 

[Californian Elitist]

We've been joking here, but honest question @raven24, how do you pronounce Latine?

Does it rhyme with "latrine" (the word for a communal toilet facility), or does it rhyme with "gratinee" (French meaning to cook au grautin)

Put another way... Are we saying it La-Teen, or are we saying it La-Teen-Eh?

If it’s a joke to you and don’t plan to use it (most likely), why are you concerned about the pronunciation?

 

[TP2000]

It’s nice and entertaining, sure. But no, it’s not something I would consider to be an attraction that does California Latine culture justice.

Well, I'm not sure what you're expecting out of a Disney theme park then.

Plaza de la Familia in September/October and Viva Navidad from November thru Three Kings' Day is not a historically accurate tribute to Father Junipero Serra and Spanish Conquistadors and the Chumash Tribe and King Alfonso, but they are wonderful and insanely fun celebrations based on various Hispanic cultures. Especially Viva Navidad, where they go out into the local OC community and recruit dancers, musicians and performers who are experts at their cultural crafts.

If that's not a park attraction that "does justice" to Hispanic cultures found in SoCal, then you would have absolutely hated what the Greeks got with the Hercules Victory Parade in the 1990's....

Sparkly Mini-Togas, and beehive hairdos formed into the shape of Grecian urns. Culture!

 

[TP2000]

If it’s a joke to you and don’t plan to use it (most likely), why are you concerned about the pronunciation?

I don't plan to use it in my speech, and certainly not in my speech with Latino friends not because it's a joke. I don't plan to use it because it seems to be an unfortunate example of cultural imperialism. Just like Latinx; A tiny group of people with socio-political power forcing another much larger group of people who historically lack that power to change their language and culture because the tiny group of people say so. That's the very definition of cultural imperialism.

Latinx is mainly used by pompous white people in faculty lounges, corporate HR departments, and the media. It's not a word you are going to hear in casual conversation on the streets of Santa Ana.

But Latine seems to be even more obscurely used than Latinx, according to Google and Wikipedia. The first time you used it I honestly just thought it was a typo.

And since you keep using Latine here, I will be reading it and I'd like to know how it's pronounced as I read your posts. Right now, I'm pronouncing it in my mind as I read your stuff as if it rhymes with the word "latrine". So I guess I'm going to continue with that pronunciation unless you tell me it's pronounced differently.

Progressives, Hispanics are not 'Latinx.' Stop trying to Anglicize our Spanish language.

Hispanic Americans face plenty of challenges as it is. The last thing we need are English-speaking progressives 'wokesplaining' how to speak Spanish.

www.usatoday.com

“The problem is we’re confusing grammar with machismo,” said Darío Villanueva, Real Academia Espanola’s director.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Has anyone actually visited the new store yet?

 

[truecoat]

I don't plan to use it in my speech, and certainly not in my speech with Latino friends not because it's a joke. I don't plan to use it because it seems to be an unfortunate example of cultural imperialism. Just like Latinx; A tiny group of people with socio-political power forcing another much larger group of people who historically lack that power to change their language and culture because the tiny group of people say so. That's the very definition of cultural imperialism.

Latinx is mainly used by pompous white people in faculty lounges, corporate HR departments, and the media. It's not a word you are going to hear in casual conversation on the streets of Santa Ana.

But Latine seems to be even more obscurely used than Latinx, according to Google and Wikipedia. The first time you used it I honestly just thought it was a typo.

And since you keep using Latine here, I will be reading it and I'd like to know how it's pronounced as I read your posts. Right now, I'm pronouncing it in my mind as I read your stuff as if it rhymes with the word "latrine". So I guess I'm going to continue with that pronunciation unless you tell me it's pronounced differently.

Progressives, Hispanics are not 'Latinx.' Stop trying to Anglicize our Spanish language.

Hispanic Americans face plenty of challenges as it is. The last thing we need are English-speaking progressives 'wokesplaining' how to speak Spanish.

www.usatoday.com

“The problem is we’re confusing grammar with machismo,” said Darío Villanueva, Real Academia Espanola’s director.

Last week, someone came to my house and forced me to say Latine.

 

[MoonRakerSCM]

We are the knights who say, latine!

 

[TP2000]

Last week, someone came to my house and forced me to say Latine.

I can't tell if you're joking or not.

But a tiny group of often white people in American academia tried to change the Spanish language. The actual people who speak Spanish don't want to change their language and have resisted, or just ignored the white people pontificating in American faculty lounges about how sexist the Spanish language is. That's a nice defeat of cultural imperialism.

The actual Spanish speakers don't use the word Latinx, much less Latine. Latinos have got real things to worry about, and can also tell the difference between grammar and machismo.

For Most Latinos, Latinx Does Not Mark the Spot (Published 2021)

We are honoring each of the Top 10 winners of our Student Editorial Contest by publishing their essays. This one is by Evan Odegard Pereira, age 16.

www.nytimes.com

 

[eddie104]

Gosh this thread is a complete mess I don’t understand why posters seem so engrossed with identity politics but yet complain about Disney being “woke”.

Honestly I’m more concerned with the elitism I’ve seen displayed by certain users versus a lesbian couple in a display shop window or the terms groups of people use to identify themselves.

 

[TP2000]

Honestly I’m more concerned with the elitism I’ve seen displayed by certain users versus a lesbian couple in a display shop window or the terms groups of people use to identify themselves.

The ice skaters aren't Lesbians unless a newspaper reporter tells you they are Lesbians.

I know Lesbians. I socialize with Lesbians. I've attended Lesbian weddings (more often than I'd like, due to the heavy use of Melissa Etheridge at the receptions).

This is not Lesbianism, it is ice skating.

 

[Disney Irish]

I can't tell if you're joking or not.

But a tiny group of often white people in American academia tried to change the Spanish language. The actual people who speak Spanish don't want to change their language and have resisted, or just ignored the white people pontificating in American faculty lounges about how sexist the Spanish language is. That's a nice defeat of cultural imperialism.

The actual Spanish speakers don't use the word Latinx, much less Latine. Latinos have got real things to worry about, and can also tell the difference between grammar and machismo.

For Most Latinos, Latinx Does Not Mark the Spot (Published 2021)

We are honoring each of the Top 10 winners of our Student Editorial Contest by publishing their essays. This one is by Evan Odegard Pereira, age 16.

www.nytimes.com

Honestly not sure why it really matters, but huge language changes such as identity terms usually takes a few generations to catch on. I mean just look at how long it took to go from the broad term of gay for the entire community in the 60s and 70s to the standard today of LGBTQ(IA)+, and go back even further the even more broad term homosexual come into being in the late 1860s. So it took almost 140 years to go from homosexual to gay to LGBTQ(IA)+.

Point is that just because few Spanish speakers use the term Latinx or Latine today doesn't mean they won't start to use it in the years to come.

 

[PiratesMansion]

I have to say, that as someone who is NOT Hispanic, that I have never heard the word "Latine" until this thread. I have, however, heard "Latinx" for the last several years. I do wonder if Latine is a replacement for Latinx, as I recall reading an article saying that Latinx was unpopular within portions of the hispanic community (which, to be clear, is quite large, diverse, and multicultural in its own right).

But ultimately, it all boils down to this: let people call themselves what they want to call themselves. It need not be any more complicated than that.

 

[TP2000]

Honestly not sure why it really matters, but huge language changes such as identity terms usually takes a few generations to catch on. I mean just look at how long it took to go from the broad term of gay for the entire community in the 60s and 70s to the standard today of LGBTQ(IA)+, and go back even further the even more broad term homosexual come into being in the late 1860s. So it took almost 140 years to go from homosexual to gay to LGBTQ(IA)+.

I would disagree with that. It often only takes a few years for language to change.

It took less than five years from 1965 to about 1969 for the word Negro to be replaced in polite conversation by Black.

It took about the same time from 1975 to 1980 for the word Oriental to be replaced in polite conversation by Asian.

Gay came about just as quickly in the early 1970's. Although it was widely enough used in the late 1960's as to cause some problems; there was a young men's clothing shop that had been there for several decades in my hometown called The Gay Blade, and in about 1968 it had to drop the word Gay from its signage and title and it just became The Blade. That definitely happened pre-1970.

The current term used on college campuses, which is 2SLGBTQQIA+, is absolutely ridiculous. As a member of the gay community myself, I can firmly tell you that none of us are calling ourselves 2SLGBTQQIA+. We just say "gay". Sometimes I drag it out a bit and say "Gaaaaaaay", but only when someone or something is particularly fabulous.

I never say 2SLGBTQQIA+ in my personal speech. And when you type that on a computer, it just looks like a cat ran across your keyboard.

Point is that just because few Spanish speakers use the term Latinx or Latine today doesn't mean they won't start to use it in the years to come.

Point is when the word was invented by mostly pompous white people, I don't blame the Spanish speakers one bit for hearing the word, learning what it means, and then completely ignoring it.

Like some media writer or college professor trying to tell me that I'm 2SLGBTQQIA+ instead of just Gay.

 

[TP2000]

But ultimately, it all boils down to this: let people call themselves what they want to call themselves. It need not be any more complicated than that.

Exactly. When the Latino community decides to call themselves something else, I'll be happy to change with them.

Latinx wasn't that.

And Latine is even more obscure. (And sounds way too close to "latrine", which isn't very attractive)

 

[mickEblu]

I have to say, that as someone who is NOT Hispanic, that I have never heard the word "Latine" until this thread. I have, however, heard "Latinx" for the last several years. I do wonder if Latine is a replacement for Latinx, as I recall reading an article saying that Latinx was unpopular within portions of the hispanic community (which, to be clear, is quite large, diverse, and multicultural in its own right).

But ultimately, it all boils down to this: let people call themselves what they want to call themselves. It need not be any more complicated than that.

That’s fine. Doesn’t mean I have to play along.

 

[TP2000]

I'm reminded of a stand up comedy routine I saw about 10 or 12 years ago up in LA. It was Susan Norfleet, the fabulous Lesbian comedienne who had that hysterical Vicky Vivrette routine in the 1990's.

This was about the time that LGBT started to have letters added on to it by boring college kids, and she got so exhausted after adding on the fifth or sixth extra letter that she just said our movement should be called "Up With People". I died, and the gay audience roared with laughter.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Exactly. When the Latino community decides to call themselves something else, I'll be happy to change with them.

Latinx wasn't that.

And Latine is even more obscure. (And sounds way too close to "latrine", which isn't very attractive)

And it may be different things for different people.

One hispanic person might prefer Latino/a. Another might prefer Latinx. A third might prefer Latine.

All of those are fine.

Much in the same way that some people might prefer gay while others prefer queer and so on and so forth.

That’s fine. Doesn’t mean I have to play along.

Calling people what they want to be called is basic etiquette.

 

[Disney Analyst]

Calling people what they want to be called is basic etiquette.

Especially if they ask you to. It's basic respect.

Sure, if you make a mistake because you didn't know, that's fine - it happens. But once someone has said "please call me this", if you openly refuse or choose not to for some weird point you are trying to make, you are just being a jerk.