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Main Street Bakery to Serve Starbucks Coffee
- Thread starter Pentacat
- Start date
Pumbas Nakasak
Heading for the great escape.
An improvement if you drink coffee. Oh I see its great if you like it but mince if you dont. Thats a shock.
The Empress Lilly
Well-Known Member
I'd be fine (well, no, but let's pretend) with a doubling of the price if Disney provided me with a corresponding increase in value, through quality and theme. Something which you can get in your local strip mall is not it.
Alas, Disney itself lost much the art of increasing the value of an offering through theme, brand, placemaking, service. Disney apparantly can't even compete on that with an ordinary chain with 20k locations. Which is just sad. That's what you get when you no longer understand the value of even simple F&B and branding techniques such as themed cups and napkins.
The Empress Lilly law: as a WDWMagic discussion grows longer, the probability of a reference involving cups or napkins approaches 1.
12 OZ Nescafe Coffee at Cozy Cones $2.79 http://allears.net/dlr/din/menu/men_conesb.htm
12 OZ Starbucks Coffee at Fiddler, Fifer & Practical Cafe $2.69 http://allears.net/dlr/din/menu/men_ffp.htm
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
If there's one thing I've learned from reading this thread is that it doesn't matter how many facts you quote from the "Pig Cafe" redgarding how this change will likely be implemented. There are people on this board who will object just to the word "Starbucks" being printed in any capcity on WDW property, regardless of how the change is actually handeled.
I'm starting to think that if Disney did everything they said they were going to do, but just renamed the coffee "Mickey's Magical Blend", this argument wouldn't exist.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
Since the restraining order, I am no longer allowed to sneak into the conference rooms were Disney decisions are made, so I cannot make a comment on why they made the change specifically. If I had to guess it had more to do with how much money Starbucks was willing to pay for a presence in the parks. But, like I said...what do I know.
The local strip mall thing has me puzzled though. I can get Cinnamon Rolls at almost every mall in America. I can get Coke absolutely everywhere in the world that has a road. I can get a Mickey Bar (without ears) by purchasing a Dove Bar almost everywhere. I can even get the recipe for a Dole Whip and make my own. Churro's I can get at the snack bar at Costco's. I can buy Smoked Emu (Oops! Turkey) Legs in a lot of places, so why the sudden concern over a brand of coffee. It makes no logical sense to me. Edy's Ice Cream, where is it that I cannot buy some of that?
The Empress Lilly
Well-Known Member
Oh come on, are you even serious?
The relevant prices are the specialty coffee drinks. This is what $bux build their empire on. The techniques to sell people a Have you people ever even visited a Starbucks?
The Empress Lilly
Well-Known Member
Yes, I agree that this decision was based on how much money Starbucks was willing to pay, not on any concern for the quality of coffee. (Which this deal leaves unaffected, for the reality-based of us)
No need to be puzzled about the strip mall. The difference between Coca-Cola, Heinz ketchup, M&M's on the one side and McDonalds and Starbucks on the other, is that the former brands are products and the latter physical places. The former have a place within the Disney parks, the latter not.
To say that you can make a Turkey leg at home is the same as saying that you can slide down a wet hillside at home.
Which, incidentally, boils down to what is pretty much the argument against Starbucks, not in favour of it: it is all about the presentation. Splash Mountain, Turkey legs and bears singing country music is greater than the sum of its parts. There is an art to it. Six Flags may heve better flume rides, you may get better turkey legs elsewhere. But combine it all, with an eye for quality, for thematic immersion, and magic happens. It is elusive, not easy to grasp or decipher or describe, but nevertheless of fundamental importance to the Disney experience. I, for one, want as much of it as possible to stay out of the clutches of marketeering, in this case, their $bux deal.
The Empress Lilly
Well-Known Member
You mean that sarcastically, but in fact, that is pretty much where it is at indeed.
You order a steel coaster from A, a handful of animatronics from B, and name the thing Snow White and voila, you have a Disney ride.
It is exactly where it's at. Where the difference between Disney and Six Flags lies. The same holds true for WDW food and beverage. You order some standard dough, bake it liek everywhere else, but sell it in bakery which is dressed up like a traditional French boulangerie, in a French town setting, with a little Eiffel Tower in the distance. This is the experience. This is where the value is added. It doesn't work if you sell the bread packaged in a Walmart sack. At least, it lessens the effect.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Doubtful - considering Disney was fighting to GET starbucks in.. and capitulate to Starbucks demands. The upside for Disney will be in the recurring revenue slice they would get along with the higher average sales prices.
Then it really should be a non-argument, considering the presentation of Starbucks and the Pig Cafe in DCA surpasses most of Disney's existing counter service locations.
The 'presentation' of it will be just like every other food item - what people are worked up over is not physical impact on the parks but their belief of a perceived threat from the brand in the parks. A belief unfounded based on the arrangement so far.
Wrong time period? So are many of the existing offerings fans would fight tooth or nail for.. so that's a red herring
Logos splashed everywhere? Already demonstrated at DCA at how the brand was integrated nicely
Displacing existing stuff? Already answered by Disney that it's the same place just plus starbucks
Pricing? Already shown to be similar to existing products and pricing structures
People getting worked into a frenzy and failing to be objective about the realities.. leaping as quick as they can to the worst case scenario they can think of, instead of looking at what is being done.
You stated that "Wake me up when WDW manages to improve its coffee without doubling the price for coffee". I have shown that the price of "coffee" not fraps, whips, lattes, espresso, etc did not double. The price of coffee actually went down when Disney went to Starbucks coffee. Whether the coffee is better is of course a matter of opinion, but I will take a fair quality brewed coffee over reconstituted coffee syrup any day. Therefore what you stated is false. Disney has improved their coffee and at no additional cost to the consumer.Oh come on, are you even serious?coffeecaffeine fantasy drink for $6,79 where they used to drink a coffee for $1,99. That's their business model.
Have you people ever even visited a Starbucks?
If you would like to compare the whole gambit of coffee drinks we can do that too.
Frappuccino Blended Beverages
Coffee tall 12oz/grande 16 oz/venti 24 oz
Caramel 4.29/4.99/5.49
Mocha 4.29/4.99/5.49
Java Chip 4.29/4.99/5.49
Coffee 3.59/4.29/4.99
White Chocolate Mocha 4.29/4.99/5.49
Mocha Light 4.29/4.99/5.49
Creme (Coffee-Free) tall 12oz/grande 16 oz/venti 24 oz
Vanilla Bean 3.59/4.29/4.99
Strawberries & Creme 4.29/4.99/5.49
Double Chocolaty Chip 4.29/4.99/5.49
Green Tea 4.29/4.99/5.49
Espresso
Flavor: +49¢ Vanilla, Hazelnut, Caramel or Peppermint
Espresso Shot +79¢
Organic Soymilk +59¢
tall 12oz/grande 16 oz/venti 24 oz
Caramel Macchiato 4.59/5.19/5.39
White Chocolate Mocha 3.99/4.79/4.99
Cinnamon Dolce Latte 3.99/4.79/4.99
Caffe Latte 3.49/3.99/4.39
Caffe Mocha 3.79/4.49/4.89
Vanilla Latte 3.79/4.49/4.89
Skinny Vanilla Latte 3.79/4.49/4.89
Caffe Americano 2.79/2.99/3.29
Cappuccino 3.49/3.99/4.39
Espresso solo 2.49, doppio 3.19
Coffee, Tazo Tea & More
tall 12oz/grande 16 oz/venti 24 oz
Freshly Brewed Coffee - Regular or Decaf 2.69/2.79/3.09
Tazo Chai Tea Latte 3.49/4.29/4.49
Full-Leaf Tazo Tea 2.69/2.79/3.09
Hot Chocolate 2.99/3.39/3.69
Kids' Hot Chocolate - 12 and Under 8 oz. 2.89
Cozy Cones
Hot Cocoa - Regular or Cinnamon Spice $2.79
Schmoozies
Espresso - regular or decaf - Single $2.49, double $3.19
Cafe Mocha - Iced or Hot $3.59/ $4.19
Cafe Latte - Iced or Hot $3.49/ $3.99
Cappuccino $3.49/ $3.99
So what are we left with? On average the prices of the Starbucks drink offerings across the board are about the same price as comparable drinks in other locations. Like I said before, comparing quality is a matter of opinion, but having tried many of these drinks, Starbucks quality tends to be better. That puts us right back where we started. Quality is up, cost is the same and your statement is false.
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
If that's your argument than you must at least admit that selling Dasani bottled water or branded ice cream bars (Disney or not) on MS is a problem too, as it does not support the theme either. If you want to be theme accurate with coffee, you'd just call it "coffee" and leave it at that. Except that does nothing to indicate how it will be prepared or what it will taste like. A brand like Starbucks does.
At some point theme has to give in order to provide a better or more comfortable experience to guests, like having cash registers that take credit cards, emergency exit signs or toilets that automatically flush. Having coffee available that meets the average guest's expectation is just that.
UberMouse
Active Member
The Empress Lilly
Well-Known Member
Again: are you even being serious?
Sadly, we don't know the pricing level of the Eastcoast MS Starbucks yet. This thread being in need of hard facts, we shall have to go by what we know, the prices we know, that is the Pig cafe. Here is the comparison between the Main Street Bakery and the Pigs café (DCA's Starbucks location). Taken from
http://allears.net/dlr/din/menu/men_ffp.htm
http://allears.net/menu/men_msb.htm
MSB: Cappuccino or Latte $3.39
Starbucks: Cappuccino 3.49/3.99/4.39
Flavor: +49¢ Vanilla, Hazelnut, Caramel or Peppermint
Espresso Shot +79¢
Organic Soymilk +59¢
MSB: Espresso $2.69
Starbucks: Espresso solo 2.49, doppio 3.19
Flavor: +49¢ Vanilla, Hazelnut, Caramel or Peppermint
Espresso Shot +79¢
Organic Soymilk +59¢
MSB: Coffee $2.09
Starbucks: Coffee 3.59/4.29/4.99
Freshly Brewed Coffee - Regular or Decaf 2.69/2.79/3.09
MSB: Iced Coffee (French vanilla, Mocha or Latte) $3.99
Starbucks: Iced Coffee 2.69/2.79/3.09/3.49
Iced Coffee with Milk 2.39/2.79/3.09/3.49
MSB: Chocolate Milk $2.19
Starbucks: Chocolate or Strawberry Milk $2.79
MSB: Hot Cocoa $2.09
Starbucks: Hot Chocolate 2.99/3.39/3.69
MSB: Hot Tea $2.09
Starbucks: Tazo Chai Tea Latte 3.49/4.29/4.49
Full-Leaf Tazo Tea 2.69/2.79/3.09
MSB: Iced Tea $2.19 and $2.49
Starbucks: Shaken Iced Tazo Tea 2.49/2.79/3.09/3.29
Iced Tazo Tea Lemonade 2.99/3.49/3.99/4.29
With the exception of iced coffee, all Starbucks products are more expensive. Often, much more expensive. To this one needs to add two further mechanisms: people order expensive additions to their Starbucks products ("large vanilla with milk please" = $.90 + $.49 + $.59 !!). These are absent in the MSB.
And, secondly, a one on one comparison is not the full picture. The second mechanism is that Starbucks has a more elaborate menu, more expensive choices. The MSB menu is roughly comparable to the standard offerings of Starbucks. There is no equivalent in the MSB to the Starbucks Caramel Macchiato with extra's for $6.50.
Numbers are not disclosed, but it seems a safe bet people walking in for a coffee will spend twice as much at Starbucks as they do in the Main Street Bakery. This is corroborated elsewhere. This is the famous Starbucks model, their greatness. Their ability to turn coffee into an experience and so double the prices people were previously willing to pay for their coffee.
Edit: gosh, what's with these fonts?
The Empress Lilly
Well-Known Member
Never!
It is owing to critical consumers of Disney that it has to be discreet about outside sponsors, that they have to incorporate, nay disguise, Starbucks thematically. We, critical consumers of Disney, forced through a make-over of DCA that respects quality and thematic immersion, so that the Pig cafe will be the limit of thematic intrusion.
If it weren't for us there really would be a complete Starbucks hipsterlair on MS, no discretion or theme. The MK would end up looking like that Pressler-legacy Downtown Disney - just a collection of outside franchises doing business under the Disney umbrella.
Mawg
Well-Known Member
Sorry, I haven't read this whole thing but I just have one question. Is the title of this thread correct? "Main Street Bakery to serve Starbucks Coffee" or should it have been titled "Main Street Bakery to become Starbucks"? The first I'm fine with (even very happy with) the later not so much and it seems like a lot of the post on here think it will be the later. I just think a Bakery (It can sell Starbucks Coffee) fits better in the theming of Main Street USA than a Starbucks. The Theming is the 1900's not the 21st century. If there is a little sign inside that says "We proudly sell Starbucks Coffee" and the big sign outside says Main Street Bakery, great. If a big sign goes out on Main Street with the Starbucks logo and inside there's a modern looking lounge and only a menu of Starbucks baked goods and coffees not so good.
Bet you a Tripple Venti cafe moca that the prices for the Starbucks coffee at MSB will be inline (say 20% +/-) with what we are currently seeing at Fiddler, Fifer & Practical Cafe.
When you cut and paste, highlight the text and click the "Remove formatting " icon (looks like an eraser) in the upper left. The text will return to the default size, font and color.
The Empress Lilly
Well-Known Member
Firstly, tell Yoda about those higher average sales prices.
Secondly, well obviously Disney has to court its sponsors. If it were the other way round, Disney should raise its sponsorship prices.
The fun thing is that Starbucks was reluctant to yield control because of Disney's lower standards. They want their own management and training. A sad fact to swallow for us Disney fans. Personally, I am not willling to be content with that. Disney must up its game. Disney once wrote the book on customer service and thematic and experiental value addition, now it can't even compete with the generic 20k franchise chain.