Magic Kingdom's Space for Expanding

[MagicHappens1971]

I read somewhere once here on the forums that theres space somewhere by Big Thunder, and Liberty Square. Is this true? And I don't mean like the "green space" on the map towards Fantasyland. Real usable space?

 

[kap91]

Behind and north/west of thunder mountain is the rest of the western river plot but gaining access to it is problematic because thunder is sort of in the way. I'm sure they could figure it out if needed, but that end of the park is already congested.

Liberty square is possible north of the haunted mansion show building. In most fan plans though pedestrian access to this plot involves building a bridge over the rivers of America and/or partially filling it in.

I think the most realistic and easiest plots for expansion (assuming we're not razing something that already exists, which I think is far more likely) are adventure land or the woods to the north and east of fantasyland/tomorrowland. Though those present their own issues of the tunnel access road and rerouting waterways.

I've actually always wondered about the design of the magic kingdom and surrounding area. For a resort that was built "with the blessing of space" they really did a great job of making expansion relatively difficult for the park itself with the close waterways, oddly placed access roads and show buildings that lock in lands. It's very strange, even when taking into account how some of the deviations from the original master plan have made it really worsen, even the original plan doesn't seem especially well thought out when compared to Disneyland.

It's not like they can't expand its just they've made it harder than it should be.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

Behind and north/west of thunder mountain is the rest of the western river plot but gaining access to it is problematic because thunder is sort of in the way. I'm sure they could figure it out if needed, but that end of the park is already congested.

Liberty square is possible north of the haunted mansion show building. In most fan plans though pedestrian access to this plot involves building a bridge over the rivers of America and/or partially filling it in.

I think the most realistic and easiest plots for expansion (assuming we're not razing something that already exists, which I think is far more likely) are adventure land or the woods to the north and east of fantasyland/tomorrowland. Though those present their own issues of the tunnel access road and rerouting waterways.

I've actually always wondered about the design of the magic kingdom and surrounding area. For a resort that was built "with the blessing of space" they really did a great job of making expansion relatively difficult for the park itself with the close waterways, oddly placed access roads and show buildings that lock in lands. It's very strange, even when taking into account how some of the deviations from the original master plan have made it really worsen, even the original plan doesn't seem especially well thought out when compared to Disneyland.

It's not like they can't expand its just they've made it harder than it should be.

Do you happen to have a a pic on a map of where it would be north of haunted mansion? I'm gonna go look at a map, but I can't picture in my head where there would be room there.

 

[kap91]

I don't have one off hand but it's been discussed here before and people have made them. I'm sure someone will add one soon enough here. There's also a guy online you can google that makes blueprints of the parks for fun and he's done one with that plot used.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

Do you happen to have a a pic on a map of where it would be north of haunted mansion? I'm gonna go look at a map, but I can't picture in my head where there would be room there.

Nevermind, I see it now. Theres a ton of space. You'd have to enter somewhere behind big thunder without seeing Haunted Mansions show building

 

[marni1971]

Do you happen to have a a pic on a map of where it would be north of haunted mansion? I'm gonna go look at a map, but I can't picture in my head where there would be room there.

That areas only fan gossip.

Expansion pads are South East of the PotC show building, west of Emporium (tiny, originally for a second restaurant) and between the CoP and the Skyway bathrooms. Later pads added were East of the FLE station and west of BTM.

 

[Jon81uk]

Personally I always think they need to demolish and move Small World to solve the bottleneck there before anything else can be expanded...

 

[Prog]

Thereby proving that it truly is a small world after all.

 

[JIMINYCR]

I've actually always wondered about the design of the magic kingdom and surrounding area. For a resort that was built "with the blessing of space" they really did a great job of making expansion relatively difficult for the park itself with the close waterways, oddly placed access roads and show buildings that lock in lands. It's very strange, even when taking into account how some of the deviations from the original master plan have made it really worsen, even the original plan doesn't seem especially well thought out when compared to Disneyland.

It's not like they can't expand its just they've made it harder than it should be.

I think at the time they simply couldnt envision the number of guests that would eventually flock to MK and Disney properties. Peoples ability and easier mode of traveling has opened the parks up more to them. They have additional weeks of free time and vacation time, they now spend more on themselves and their kids instead of saving and the unceasing promotion of vacationing at Disney has allowed the parks to bulge and not keep up with the demand. Walt underestimated the number of guests that would want to see DL, and when WDW started being built they continued in the same way by underestimating MK's draw.

 

[Sage of Time]

How about north of Space? And there's always Storybook Circus's tents, right?

That areas only fan gossip.

Expansion pads are South East of the PotC show building, west of Emporium (tiny, originally for a second restaurant) and between the CoP and the Skyway bathrooms. Later pads added were East of the FLE station and west of BTM.

 

[Tom]

I think at the time they simply couldnt envision the number of guests that would eventually flock to MK and Disney properties. Peoples ability and easier mode of traveling has opened the parks up more to them. They have additional weeks of free time and vacation time, they now spend more on themselves and their kids instead of saving and the unceasing promotion of vacationing at Disney has allowed the parks to bulge and not keep up with the demand. Walt underestimated the number of guests that would want to see DL, and when WDW started being built they continued in the same way by underestimating MK's draw.

Spot on.

And by having the blessing of size, that meant they had enough land to do other things - not necessarily to keep expanding one theme park. MK was the "weenie" to get people to come to the WDW property, where they were supposed to visit, work and/or live.

 

[mahnamahna101]

How about north of Space? And there's always Storybook Circus's tents, right?

I would say MK's maximum expansion space is (including attractions that need replacement or that could be relocated somewhere more thematically appropriate)

Adventureland
Southeast of POTC (big enough for 1 E-ticket and 1-2 smaller attractions)

Frontierland/Liberty Square
West of Big Thunder/Splash (big enough for 1 E-ticket and possibly 1 smaller attraction)

Fantasyland
the IASW space (relocate it to the Odyssey area of Epcot)
Philharmagic's space (move it to the Studios or MSUSA) - a new show in its place
Princess Fairytale Hall (spread the M&Gs out) - big enough for a new dark ride
all of Storybook Circus except Dumbo (bulldoze Casey and the tents. Relocate Barnstormer to the Studios) - big enough for 1 big attraction and 2 smaller ones
the Speedway (to provide a better transition) - big enough for 2 big attractions and 1 smaller one
the space right behind BoG (big enough for some sort of B&TB ride)

Tomorrowland
the area north of Space Mountain and the Speedway
the area between CoP and Space Mountain
CoP (relocate to Epcot)
Stitch (replace...)
Laugh Floor (relocate to the Studios)
Buzz (retheme...)

Main Street USA
by the Emporium (1 show)

Basically enough room for something like this if TDO was really dedicated to reworking backstage (all hypothetical Imagineering). If they can fit 50+ attractions in DL, hypothetically, I don't see how MK couldn't do 45-50 with a lot more space to work with.

1. Journey to the Center of the Earth clone (+1)
2. Aladdin - The Musical clone (+2)
3. relocated Magic Carpets (+2)
4. Frontierland E-ticket - most likely family-oriented (+3)
5. Sleepy Hollow or Princess & the Frog attraction (+4)
6. Tangled dark ride on part of IASW plot and some backstage (+4)
7. Neverland mini-land on the rest of IASW plot with new PPF's show building in backstage area (+6)
8. Philharmagic replaced with new show (+7)
9. old PPF replaced with new ride (+7)
10. B&TB dark ride (+8)
11. Pleasure Island mini-land (+9)
12. Dumbo mini-land (+10)
13. Wonderland mini-land (+11)
14. 100 Acre Wood mini-land (+12)
15. new Tomorrowland E-ticket (+13) - in Speedway/Space mystery plot
16. 2 Tomorrowland D-tickets (+15) - one in Speedway/Space mystery plot, one between CoP/Space
17. 1 Tomorrowland C-ticket (+16) - in Speedway/Space mystery plot
18. Stitch replacement (+17 - it's a repulsion currently)
19. Laugh Floor replacement (+17)
20. Buzz replacement (+17)
21. CoP replacement (+17)
22. Philharmagic moves into Main Street USA (+17)

The park could increase its attraction count (includes as big as POTC/the Mountains/HM and as small as Stitch or Swiss Family Treehouse) by 16 or 17 if almost every nook and cranny were filled.

And technically it would be more because all of the replacements except Buzz and Stitch would be relocated elsewhere in WDW.

Epcot has a lot more hypothetical expansion space, though. DHS would require the gutting of the entire back half of the park lol, while AK has so many conservation areas that their expansion space is actually not that extensive.

 

[Chrischris10]

Just so that we know what we are talking about here is a google earth of MK:

 

[Raineman]

If you are building indoor attractions, ie dark rides, and you figure that the size of the building required for that type of attraction is close to HM/IASW, you could possibly fit two of those buildings in the Speedway area, and another two in the wooded area across the railroad tracks from the Speedway. Both of those areas could also each hold a good sized outdoor attraction as well, instead of the indoor. There could be some nice options for these areas if TS is removed. I know a lot of people have been hoping to see a ride similar to Radiator Springs Racers at DL, and you could definitely combine these two areas for something like that, although that might be something more suited for DHS than MK.

 

[mahnamahna101]

If you are building indoor attractions, ie dark rides, and you figure that the size of the building required for that type of attraction is close to HM/IASW, you could possibly fit two of those buildings in the Speedway area, and another two in the wooded area across the railroad tracks from the Speedway. Both of those areas could also each hold a good sized outdoor attraction as well, instead of the indoor. There could be some nice options for these areas if TS is removed. I know a lot of people have been hoping to see a ride similar to Radiator Springs Racers at DL, and you could definitely combine these two areas for something like that, although that might be something more suited for DHS than MK.

MK needs more attractions, not less. RSR would be an improvement over the Speedway, but MK would be better off adding 3 people-eaters and 3 smaller attractions to round out its current offerings. Plus, it would look awkward between Fantasyland and Tomorrowland - even worse than the Speedway due to the lavish, but clashing themes.

For the Speedway area and the wooded area behind it, the best option is:
1 E-ticket (1 for Fantasyland) - its own mountain (Bald Mountain)
2 D-tickets (1 for Fantasyland, 1 for Tomorrowland) - an Alice dark ride and a more realstic original Tomorrowland dark ride would be great
2 C-tickets (1 for Fantasyland, 1 for Tomorrowland) - Curious Labyrinth/relocated Tea Cups, Stitch Encounter for Tomorrowland
1 B-ticket (1 for Tomorrowland) - Dumbo/Tea Party size. An enhanced, trackless, enclosed Flying Saucers would be great!

Plus if you relocate CoP to either the parking lot behind Buzz or to Future World at Epcot, and use the space between Space/CoP, you can fit another E. If that space were used, I'd give Fantasyland another D/E. Put in a TRON E-ticket speedbike coaster there!

3 attractions for Fantasyland, 4 attractions for Tomorrowland (5 if you count a Stitch replacement, with how unpopular that is)

It'd help SDMt, Buzz and Space Mountain out if there was 3-4 more D/Es in the right side of the park.

 

[TP2000]

If they can fit 50+ attractions in DL, hypothetically, I don't see how MK couldn't do 45-50 with a lot more space to work with..

Disneyland fits so many more rides into the park compared to Magic Kingdom because at Disneyland multiple rides share the same space.

The Rivers of America is a good example, as Disneyland has double the number of rides in that same space as Magic Kingdom does. At MK the Rivers of America has Rafts to Tom Sawyer Island and Liberty Belle Riverboat. At Disneyland they've got the Rafts to Pirates Lair and Walt's original Mark Twain Riverboat, but also the Sailing Ship Columbia and a fleet of Davy Crockett Canoes all sharing the same space. Four unique attractions overlayed onto each other and playing off each other thematically, creating one heckuva busy river at Disneyland versus the quiet solitude of MK's river.

In Disneyland's Fantasyland you've got Alice In Wonderland dark ride literally stacked on the roof of the Mr. Toad dark ride. And Casey Jr. Circus Train intertwines over and around the waterways of the Storybook Land Canal Boats.

Big expansion pads beyond the berm are one thing, but Magic Kingdom planners would be wise to consider intertwining attractions and their stories into one combined space like Walt's Disneyland planners did in the 1950's and 60's. It works wonders at boosting ride capacity and thematic density!

 

[mahnamahna101]

Disneyland fits so many more rides into the park compared to Magic Kingdom because at Disneyland multiple rides share the same space.

The Rivers of America is a good example, as Disneyland has double the number of rides in that same space as Magic Kingdom does. At MK the Rivers of America has Rafts to Tom Sawyer Island and Liberty Belle Riverboat. At Disneyland they've got the Rafts to Pirates Lair and Walt's original Mark Twain Riverboat, but also the Sailing Ship Columbia and a fleet of Davy Crockett Canoes all sharing the same space. Four unique attractions overlayed onto each other and playing off each other thematically, creating one heckuva busy river at Disneyland versus the quiet solitude of MK's river.

In Disneyland's Fantasyland you've got Alice In Wonderland dark ride literally stacked on the roof of the Mr. Toad dark ride. And Casey Jr. Circus Train intertwines over and around the waterways of the Storybook Land Canal Boats.

Big expansion pads beyond the berm are one thing, but Magic Kingdom planners would be wise to consider intertwining attractions and their stories into one combined space like Walt's Disneyland planners did in the 1950's and 60's. It works wonders at boosting ride capacity and thematic density!

I'd support something like that for the Tomorrowland expansion pad!

Have 2-3 stories of attractions to save space and give the area some kinetic energy as well as the aforementioned thematic density.

MK unfortunately wasn't designed with this intertwining concept in mind. So a spread out expansion is the most efficient way of maximizing current guest footprints.

Any future expansions should incorporate this concept however.

In the Adventureland pad, they could have a Mount Prometheus clone incorporated into Jungle Cruise while also holding JttCotE, a Nautilus walkthrough/attraction and a Vulcania restaurant.

In Tomorrowland, they could easily stack attractions on top of one another. They already have the PeopleMover and Astro Orbiter in this fashion.

 

[TP2000]

In Tomorrowland, they could easily stack attractions on top of one another. They already have the PeopleMover and Astro Orbiter in this fashion.

Tomorrowland holds a lot of promise for stacked attractions. From 1959 to 1999 there were up to five attractions stacked on top of each other at Disneyland: Submarine Voyage, with Autopia freeways on the roof of the submarine show building, with Monorail tracks swirling above, intertwined with 1967 PeopleMover tracks (later 1998 Rocket Rods), with Skyway cable strung overhead. Now it's just the three 1950's rides left: Submarines, Autopia, Monorail.

And that was in Disneyland's little corner of Tomorrowland wedged up against the Santa Ana Freeway and Harbor Blvd. Imagine what they could do with the sprawling space and acreage of WDW's Tomorrowland!

As far as the Rivers of America, another huge opportunity for Magic Kingdom to add new rides, here's the 60th Diamond Celebration version of layered attractions. The Diamond bunting bedecked Mark Twain Riverboat being tailed by a Canoe this weekend.

 

[Flippin'Flounder]

Carousel of Progress could definitely get something stacked on top of it

 

[bjlc57]

That areas only fan gossip.

Expansion pads are South East of the PotC show building, west of Emporium (tiny, originally for a second restaurant) and between the CoP and the Skyway bathrooms. Later pads added were East of the FLE station and west of BTM.

this area by COP, just drives me nuts. here is a PRIME piece of true space just begging for a ride.. BEGGING for a RIDE.. just almost wasted space.. we were discussing this space last night over supper.. and a meet and greet isn't good enough to fill this bill of sale.. no way NO HOW..