Magic Kingdom's Space for Expanding

[Raineman]

this area by COP, just drives me nuts. here is a PRIME piece of true space just begging for a ride.. BEGGING for a RIDE.. just almost wasted space.. we were discussing this space last night over supper.. and a meet and greet isn't good enough to fill this bill of sale.. no way NO HOW..

What purpose does the Skyway building serve, other than the bathrooms? Such a waste of Tomorrowland real estate. If you get rid of that building, and the dance party stage, you could fit an attraction in there, albeit one that would have to weave around the TTA tracks. And, if CoP was moved to Epcot as well, as has been suggested by a few people, you would have basically 1/4 of Tomorrowland to work with, and the opportunity to create some things that could breathe new life into that whole area.

 

[Flippin'Flounder]

What purpose does the Skyway building serve, other than the bathrooms? Such a waste of Tomorrowland real estate. If you get rid of that building, and the dance party stage, you could fit an attraction in there, albeit one that would have to weave around the TTA tracks. And, if CoP was moved to Epcot as well, as has been suggested by a few people, you would have basically 1/4 of Tomorrowland to work with, and the opportunity to create some things that could breathe new life into that whole area.

And then if you get rid of the Speedway, MILF, and Stitch, all will be good in the world.. Err.. land

 

[DisneyRoy]

That areas only fan gossip.

Expansion pads are South East of the PotC show building, west of Emporium (tiny, originally for a second restaurant) and between the CoP and the Skyway bathrooms. Later pads added were East of the FLE station and west of BTM.

I keep seeing these areas mentioned, but I don't see them. Unless these areas you mention are the backstage areas? I would say those are not expansion pads but areas for cast members to travel or for storage and not so much as an expansion pad.

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

View attachment 96730 Just so that we know what we are talking about here is a google earth of MK:

How many acres does SM and BTM take up? Two awesome rides

 

[marni1971]

I keep seeing these areas mentioned, but I don't see them. Unless these areas you mention are the backstage areas? I would say those are not expansion pads but areas for cast members to travel or for storage and not so much as an expansion pad.

They are mainly backstage expansion areas. Most expansion areas are usually backstage with a few exceptions.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I took a look at the maps. I'm not any sort of expert regarding what land can or can't be used, but there are pieces of land that appear to be usable, or at least could be altered for use by redirecting water and/or streets. Some are piece of land i've heard discussed for real use, others are areas that i'm just basing on looks. Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong about any of these, I numbered the areas for organization purposes-

Area 1 looks like it could be used, I don't see any major water in the area that would need redirecting. There's the Caribbean Way road blocking access, but that could probably either be redirected or some sort of underpass could be built. Either way it LOOKS like it could be used for a sizable Adventureland expansion if so desired, it's as large as Jungle Cruise and the Treehouse area combined.

Area 2, a cast parking lot. I have heard this being discussed for potential expansion in the past. So I would guess that area is usable (though perhaps inconveniencing the cast somewhat, dunno).

I believe Martin once posted a Magic Kingdom Phase 2 plan with at least part of area 3 being intended for use, I think this is the area he mentioned between the old Skyway bathrooms and Carousel of Progress. Though I also believe back then the canal was smaller and less fat (still I would assume they could probably fill the land and redirect the water somehow). This and area 2 could double the size of Tomorrowland. I assume the expansion pad Martin mentioned was east of the Fantasyland Station is the area I marked as 4, though there is again also a large-ish body of water that may or may not be an issue to deal with. There does appear to be plenty of land farther outside the park, but i'm unsure whether they can dig extra water basics to compensate. You really could basically double the size of Fantasyland if all of this land were usable.

Areas 5 and 6 i'm not sure about. I'm unclear as to whether there's a problem using these areas due to the fireworks fallout, I believe the area where the fireworks are shot off is the pond above Floridian Way. So maybe, maybe not. If so, area 5 is approximately three times the size of Little Mermaid's show building. There was a topic back in 2012 made by whylightbulb regarding a possible blue sky Frontierland expansion being discussed internally, and I believe area 6 was discussed in the topic (the speculation I believe involved altering the riverboat area and TSI and building a walkway on the bank alongside the edge of Haunted Mansion). It appears large enough to fit both Haunted Mansion and Small World combined.

Area 7 I am assuming is the piece of land Martin mentioned usable west of Big Thunder. It's a large chunk of land that doesn't appear to have many necessary alterations to be usable. Assuming all of it could be used, it could provide for a sizable Frontierland expansion (it looks like you could even fit Big Thunder, Splash Mountain and Pirates inside it).

 

[bjlc57]

but out of all the plans.. ZONE 2 is IN THE PARK and READY TO USE. .TODAY.. no added paths needed. you could put something there in 6 months.. if you wanted to actually SPEND THE MONEY..

 

[Raineman]

I took a look at the maps. I'm not any sort of expert regarding what land can or can't be used, but there are pieces of land that appear to be usable, or at least could be altered for use by redirecting water and/or streets. Some are piece of land i've heard discussed for real use, others are areas that i'm just basing on looks. Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong about any of these, I numbered the areas for organization purposes-

I think one of the biggest challenges to using any of these areas is that they all have at least one side bounding on the unthemed part of buildings, ie the back of the attraction buildings that Disney does not want us to see. A large part of making these areas usable would be to either block the view of the "backstage" areas, or add enough theming to these areas so that they retain the magic that Disney wants us to see. I think this is an issue they have been dealing with while building the Main St bypass.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

MK needs more attractions, not less.

On what planet? What MK needs desperately is to stop growing.

 

[marni1971]

On what planet? What MK needs desperately is to stop growing.

MK needs more high capacity, high appeal attractions.

But only after the other three parks are made much more appealing.

 

[matt9112]

MK needs more attractions, not less. RSR would be an improvement over the Speedway, but MK would be better off adding 3 people-eaters and 3 smaller attractions to round out its current offerings. Plus, it would look awkward between Fantasyland and Tomorrowland - even worse than the Speedway due to the lavish, but clashing themes.

For the Speedway area and the wooded area behind it, the best option is:
1 E-ticket (1 for Fantasyland) - its own mountain (Bald Mountain)
2 D-tickets (1 for Fantasyland, 1 for Tomorrowland) - an Alice dark ride and a more realstic original Tomorrowland dark ride would be great
2 C-tickets (1 for Fantasyland, 1 for Tomorrowland) - Curious Labyrinth/relocated Tea Cups, Stitch Encounter for Tomorrowland
1 B-ticket (1 for Tomorrowland) - Dumbo/Tea Party size. An enhanced, trackless, enclosed Flying Saucers would be great!

Plus if you relocate CoP to either the parking lot behind Buzz or to Future World at Epcot, and use the space between Space/CoP, you can fit another E. If that space were used, I'd give Fantasyland another D/E. Put in a TRON E-ticket speedbike coaster there!

3 attractions for Fantasyland, 4 attractions for Tomorrowland (5 if you count a Stitch replacement, with how unpopular that is)

It'd help SDMt, Buzz and Space Mountain out if there was 3-4 more D/Es in the right side of the park.

I think most of what the MK needs is smaller changes park wide. (Guest flow related) maybe a few new stores. Adding a new area nOrth of space mountain maybe a few shops there and dinning. But ride wise I think the park is very well rounded....in the busy season you can't do it all in one day....but other parks you can do in half? sorry magic kingdoms attraction count is not the issue. People clinging onto its status as the lead park are. Sure it deserves to be the crown jewel but not at the expense of everything around it. The studios and epcot in paticular need to pull there own weight.

 

[copcarguyp71]

Don't flog me for this but I am no fan of Tom Sawyers Island or RoA so I might not be too upset if the rivers got filled in and the TSI got plundered for a Frontierland expansion.

Also (and this was recently discussed on another thread) bulldozing the Tommorowland Speedway (sorry again) and making an E-ticket or dark ride that would encompass that and then go over the railroad creating a tunnel to expand into the woods on the far side of the tracks by the water basin.

 

[danlb_2000]

I took a look at the maps. I'm not any sort of expert regarding what land can or can't be used, but there are pieces of land that appear to be usable, or at least could be altered for use by redirecting water and/or streets. Some are piece of land i've heard discussed for real use, others are areas that i'm just basing on looks. Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong about any of these, I numbered the areas for organization purposes-

Area 1 looks like it could be used, I don't see any major water in the area that would need redirecting. There's the Caribbean Way road blocking access, but that could probably either be redirected or some sort of underpass could be built. Either way it LOOKS like it could be used for a sizable Adventureland expansion if so desired, it's as large as Jungle Cruise and the Treehouse area combined.

Area 2, a cast parking lot. I have heard this being discussed for potential expansion in the past. So I would guess that area is usable (though perhaps inconveniencing the cast somewhat, dunno).

I believe Martin once posted a Magic Kingdom Phase 2 plan with at least part of area 3 being intended for use, I think this is the area he mentioned between the old Skyway bathrooms and Carousel of Progress. Though I also believe back then the canal was smaller and less fat (still I would assume they could probably fill the land and redirect the water somehow). This and area 2 could double the size of Tomorrowland. I assume the expansion pad Martin mentioned was east of the Fantasyland Station is the area I marked as 4, though there is again also a large-ish body of water that may or may not be an issue to deal with. There does appear to be plenty of land farther outside the park, but i'm unsure whether they can dig extra water basics to compensate. You really could basically double the size of Fantasyland if all of this land were usable.

Areas 5 and 6 i'm not sure about. I'm unclear as to whether there's a problem using these areas due to the fireworks fallout, I believe the area where the fireworks are shot off is the pond above Floridian Way. So maybe, maybe not. If so, area 5 is approximately three times the size of Little Mermaid's show building. There was a topic back in 2012 made by whylightbulb regarding a possible blue sky Frontierland expansion being discussed internally, and I believe area 6 was discussed in the topic (the speculation I believe involved altering the riverboat area and TSI and building a walkway on the bank alongside the edge of Haunted Mansion). It appears large enough to fit both Haunted Mansion and Small World combined.

Area 7 I am assuming is the piece of land Martin mentioned usable west of Big Thunder. It's a large chunk of land that doesn't appear to have many necessary alterations to be usable. Assuming all of it could be used, it could provide for a sizable Frontierland expansion (it looks like you could even fit Big Thunder, Splash Mountain and Pirates inside it).

A permit was filed last year to turn a good part of 6 into a new retention pond, although as of December this hadn't happened yet.

 

[Sage of Time]

I took a look at the maps. I'm not any sort of expert regarding what land can or can't be used, but there are pieces of land that appear to be usable, or at least could be altered for use by redirecting water and/or streets. Some are piece of land i've heard discussed for real use, others are areas that i'm just basing on looks. Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong about any of these, I numbered the areas for organization purposes-

Area 1 looks like it could be used, I don't see any major water in the area that would need redirecting. There's the Caribbean Way road blocking access, but that could probably either be redirected or some sort of underpass could be built. Either way it LOOKS like it could be used for a sizable Adventureland expansion if so desired, it's as large as Jungle Cruise and the Treehouse area combined.

Area 2, a cast parking lot. I have heard this being discussed for potential expansion in the past. So I would guess that area is usable (though perhaps inconveniencing the cast somewhat, dunno).

I believe Martin once posted a Magic Kingdom Phase 2 plan with at least part of area 3 being intended for use, I think this is the area he mentioned between the old Skyway bathrooms and Carousel of Progress. Though I also believe back then the canal was smaller and less fat (still I would assume they could probably fill the land and redirect the water somehow). This and area 2 could double the size of Tomorrowland. I assume the expansion pad Martin mentioned was east of the Fantasyland Station is the area I marked as 4, though there is again also a large-ish body of water that may or may not be an issue to deal with. There does appear to be plenty of land farther outside the park, but i'm unsure whether they can dig extra water basics to compensate. You really could basically double the size of Fantasyland if all of this land were usable.

Areas 5 and 6 i'm not sure about. I'm unclear as to whether there's a problem using these areas due to the fireworks fallout, I believe the area where the fireworks are shot off is the pond above Floridian Way. So maybe, maybe not. If so, area 5 is approximately three times the size of Little Mermaid's show building. There was a topic back in 2012 made by whylightbulb regarding a possible blue sky Frontierland expansion being discussed internally, and I believe area 6 was discussed in the topic (the speculation I believe involved altering the riverboat area and TSI and building a walkway on the bank alongside the edge of Haunted Mansion). It appears large enough to fit both Haunted Mansion and Small World combined.

Area 7 I am assuming is the piece of land Martin mentioned usable west of Big Thunder. It's a large chunk of land that doesn't appear to have many necessary alterations to be usable. Assuming all of it could be used, it could provide for a sizable Frontierland expansion (it looks like you could even fit Big Thunder, Splash Mountain and Pirates inside it).

Theming the back of Pirates would be interesting, for plot 1.

 

[WondersOfLife]

They should definitely create a super-hero themed land over there behind Space Mountain and the space currently held by the speedway.

It'd be both a good transition between Storybook Circus and Tomorrowland if it was themed to say, jumping into the pages of comic books! (not like Uni's, but actual giant pages of hero comics.. Like Toon Lagoon but superheroes and not much of a water atmosphere)

The Incredibles, Big Hero 6, and Guardians of the Galaxy could be used for the main focus of the land. I said it would fit well in the Studios.. But I could see it working in Magic Kingdom too!

Although.. Still.. The studios could use them more than Magic Kingdom.

 

[Communicore]

Yea, they should indeed pave over the Rivers and add more attractions there. I'm not really a fan of that area anymore.

They don't need the Riverboat in the Rivers, move it to the Fantasmic theatre so people can ride on it around that faux Rivers of America.

Also, they need to build on the Center Street across of the filled in one (Emporium) so it will be symmetrical.

 

[Magenta Panther]

but out of all the plans.. ZONE 2 is IN THE PARK and READY TO USE. .TODAY.. no added paths needed. you could put something there in 6 months.. if you wanted to actually SPEND THE MONEY..

A Disney Villains area there would be sweet!

 

[mahnamahna101]

On what planet? What MK needs desperately is to stop growing.

Really? Peter Pan and SDMT shouldn't have 60-120 min waits. JC/POTC/HM shouldn't have 45-60 min waits. IASW shouldn't have 40 min waits. 75% of that is due to a lack of mass appeal, high-capacity attractions near them (especially for SDMT)

If Epcot were fully built-out, and drew in 15-17m... if DHS and AK each were fully built out getting 14-16m on their own without the help of park-hoppers...

Disneyland has 15 more attractions than MK... some of which are mass appeal (Indiana Jones, Star Tours, Matterhorn, etc)

After fixing the other parks, MK needs:

1. An expansion for Adventureland to ease tension off Jungle Cruise and POTC wait times
2. An expansion for Frontierland/Liberty Square to remove the Big Thunder bottleneck and to provide some high-capacity, all ages additions
3. Revamps for IASW and PPF
4. New Fantasyland-approrpriate show where old Philharmagic is
5. Dark ride where Princess Fairytale Hall is (doubles the current capacity)
6. A headliner for the current NFL (B&TB trackless dark ride) to ease SDMT wait times
7. Something else for the Storybook Circus (minus Dumbo) area
8. Speedway bulldozed to allow a Fantasyland and Tomorrowland expansion. Bald Mountain and Wonderland/100 Acre Wood mini-lands for Fantasyland. 2-3 attractions for Tomorrowland.
9. The CoP/Space Mt area gets 2-3 attractions (2 stories), while CoP moves to Epcot
10. Stitch and Laugh Floor replacements
11. Something behind Buzz (relocated Philharmagic for MSUSA)

MK definitely doesn't need less, especially once the other three parks can stand alone and get 85-90% of MK's yearly attendance #s.

 

[mahnamahna101]

Agreed! MK is already a two-day park, if you want to experience all of the attractions.
The other three parks need to be improved so that they draw guests away from MK, to the point of crowds being more evenly spread out between all parks on a given day.

Two day? Two days from 9am to midnight? Unless you want to experience EVERYTHING (M&Gs, rides, shows, walkthroughs, Streetmosphere, shops, both parades, the nighttime castle show, the fireworks, all of the restaurants), MK takes 1.5 days... if you're over the age of 10, it takes a full 8am-1am day to do MK (avoiding things like Stitch, etc)

I think most of what the MK needs is smaller changes park wide. (Guest flow related) maybe a few new stores. Adding a new area nOrth of space mountain maybe a few shops there and dinning. But ride wise I think the park is very well rounded....in the busy season you can't do it all in one day....but other parks you can do in half? sorry magic kingdoms attraction count is not the issue. People clinging onto its status as the lead park are. Sure it deserves to be the crown jewel but not at the expense of everything around it. The studios and epcot in paticular need to pull there own weight.

Part of why you can't do MK in a day is because of how ridiculous some of the wait-times are. If there were 5-7 more major attractions and a few smaller ones to round it out, SDMT's wait-time would be cut in half, same for JC, Space and Buzz would go down, Splash would go down slightly, same for Big Thunder.

A JttCotE clone, a high-capacity show for Adventureland, Western River Expedition, a B&TB trackless dark ride, Bald Mountain, an Alice mini-land, a Pooh mini-land, a new dark ride where PFH is, a new show, 4-5 attractions for Tomorrowland, along with solid replacements for Stitch and Laugh Floor would spread crowds out. If Epcot, DHS and AK are stand-alone like you mention. MK needs some people-eaters to ease wait-times for the other headliners.

But with FP+, you can certainly do MK. After reserving 3 for before 12pm, you can pick up FPs for Jungle Cruise, IASW, POTC, Buzz, Mermaid, Pooh, the Speedway, Dumbo, Barnstormer, and even Big Thunder for the vast majority of the day. Reserve Peter Pan, Space and Splash, do SDMT at rope-drop, ... set for the day.

If you go from open to close, and only do everything once (8am-1am), you could probably do 90-95% of MK other than one or two shows, Astro Orbiter (always has a 40 min wait), the Riverboat, Swiss Family and Tom Sawyer. You just have to be willing to stay the entire day and maintain a steady pace.

 

[mahnamahna101]

What purpose does the Skyway building serve, other than the bathrooms? Such a waste of Tomorrowland real estate. If you get rid of that building, and the dance party stage, you could fit an attraction in there, albeit one that would have to weave around the TTA tracks. And, if CoP was moved to Epcot as well, as has been suggested by a few people, you would have basically 1/4 of Tomorrowland to work with, and the opportunity to create some things that could breathe new life into that whole area.

If you bulldoze the Skyway area, relocate CoP, build 2 stories on the space from Space Mt/CoP, replace Stitch since it really doesn't attract anyone right now lol, and bulldoze the Speedway to open up a guest pathway to a Tomorrowland expansion pad (using the old Speedway area for Fantasyland)... you could add 7-8 attractions to Tomorrowland. Granted, they wouldn't all be like Space Mt.

But an E, 2 Ds (1 between Space and CoP, 1 in expansion pad), 3 Cs, and 2 As/Bs would fit in all of that space. And 3 new major attractions would help out Space and Buzz a lot - especially if all 3 are high-capacity.