Magic Kingdom's Space for Expanding

[EnergyKing]

I don't think it needs an expansion, it needs replacements. If I was ruler of all WDW I would gut these attractions: Stitch (duh), Monsters, Inc (i don't even bother to look up its name), Speedaway (it's about time), TL Dance Party (do i need to explain why?), Aladdin thingy (eyesore), Mermaid (it's an insult of a ride, but i'd save it for last since it's recent)....off the top of my head those are some lackluster attractions (I realize Dance Party isn't exactly an attraction). Controversial it may be, but I'd also toss Buzz Lightyear into the dustbin (it's basically target practice on a moving vehicle).

What needs (in my fantasy world) to be renovated/fixed: Haunted Mansion interactive cue (fixed as in GONE!), Pirates (tone down the movie references, limit it to one Depp appearance), Jungle Cruise (some more thrills, more realistic looking animals, possibly rethemed since we now have Animal Kingdom), Main Street (bring back penny arcade and cinema, cut down on shameless merchandising), Peter Pan (needs a major facelift, the ride has not held up well), Carousel OP (see Peter Pan), and 7 dwarves coaster would benefit from a lil something extra, a scary set piece at the end or something (another drop maybe?).

I'll get back to what I'd replace the aforementioned goners with.

 

[EnergyKing]

Oh and bring back the Diamond Horseshoe. While I've never seen it, it always felt good to know it was there.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Really? Peter Pan and SDMT shouldn't have 60-120 min waits. JC/POTC/HM shouldn't have 45-60 min waits. IASW shouldn't have 40 min waits. 75% of that is due to a lack of mass appeal, high-capacity attractions near them (especially for SDMT)

Adding attractions isn't going to spread those lines out. It's going to bring MORE people into the MK and make the lines worse. MK has a multiplier effect. New attractions draw a larger number of incremental guests than the incremental capacity they provide.

ETA: Not to mention the strain on things like parking, the monorail, parades, fireworks, and the front gate.

 

[EnergyKing]

Maybe if they improved the lamer rides the lines would be more evenly dispersed.

 

[EnergyKing]

if time money and space weren't a factor...

 

[englanddg]

Disneyland fits so many more rides into the park compared to Magic Kingdom because at Disneyland multiple rides share the same space.

The Rivers of America is a good example, as Disneyland has double the number of rides in that same space as Magic Kingdom does. At MK the Rivers of America has Rafts to Tom Sawyer Island and Liberty Belle Riverboat. At Disneyland they've got the Rafts to Pirates Lair and Walt's original Mark Twain Riverboat, but also the Sailing Ship Columbia and a fleet of Davy Crockett Canoes all sharing the same space. Four unique attractions overlayed onto each other and playing off each other thematically, creating one heckuva busy river at Disneyland versus the quiet solitude of MK's river.

In Disneyland's Fantasyland you've got Alice In Wonderland dark ride literally stacked on the roof of the Mr. Toad dark ride. And Casey Jr. Circus Train intertwines over and around the waterways of the Storybook Land Canal Boats.

Big expansion pads beyond the berm are one thing, but Magic Kingdom planners would be wise to consider intertwining attractions and their stories into one combined space like Walt's Disneyland planners did in the 1950's and 60's. It works wonders at boosting ride capacity and thematic density!

The Davy Crockett Canoes used to be in Magic Kingdom as well. I'm not exactly sure when they took them out, but their docks are still visible. They are the docks just across from Big Thunder Mountain.

Originally there were two riverboats as well. (I've only seen the Irvine/Liberty Belle myself). Apparently, one of them got a cracked hull during drydock and was decommissioned.

Also, they used to operate the Mike Fink Keelboats. That dock is also visible. It's the wooden structure just as you enter the Haunted Mansion queue (iirc, it's queue has now been integrated with the Haunted Mansion queue). Again, not sure when these shut down.

There are some other docks, I think they ran rafts to Tom Sawyers as well at one point, it's currently the wooden walking path that runs along the south part of RoA, you'll note pier looking structures that seem to randomly jut out into the river. I don't remember that being a separate attraction, rather I think this was a dock for a second raft.

 

[englanddg]

A permit was filed last year to turn a good part of 6 into a new retention pond, although as of December this hadn't happened yet.

iirc, that retention pond that is currently bordering it also serves a dual purpose. It's in the flame out zone for the fireworks launchers.

 

[mahnamahna101]

Adding attractions isn't going to spread those lines out. It's going to bring MORE people into the MK and make the lines worse. MK has a multiplier effect. New attractions draw a larger number of incremental guests than the incremental capacity they provide.

ETA: Not to mention the strain on things like parking, the monorail, parades, fireworks, and the front gate.

How's adding 30,000-50,000/day across the entire park going to make the lines worse? Especially if you also improve the other 3 parks to be full-day experiences on their own.

If a Western River Expedition with 3,000-3,200/hr capacity were added to Frontierland, the lines for Big Thunder and Splash would go down since it's the newest addition. And because of how high capacity it is, wait times should be relatively low for a new E (30-40 min).

Same goes for Fantasyland. If Bald Mountain (2,500/hr), B&TB trackless dark ride (2,500/hr), an Alice mini-land (4,000/hr with everything), a Pooh flat (600/hr), a dark ride instead of PFH (1,200/hr versus 400/hr), a new show after relocating Philharmagic to Main Street (3,000/hr), and a Pinocchio mini-land by the tents (4,500/hr) were all added... capacity would increase by 18,000/hr... SDMT's wait-times would be cut by 50-65% if Fantasyland provided more options. I doubt all of those additions would have 90-120 min waits like SDMT.

Doubling Tomorrowland's attraction count and replacing Stitch/Laugh Floor with more appealing attractions would indeed lower Space Mt/Buzz wait times. Especially if an E and 2 Ds with 2,500+/hr were added, along with some Cs with 1,500+/hr.

A JttCotE clone and a clone of Aladdin: The Musical would decrease wait-times for JC/POTC since they won't be the only worthwhile attractions in Adventureland anymore.

 

[Andrew C]

How about they fix DHS and Epcot....just saying...

 

[CaptainAmerica]

How's adding 30,000-50,000/day across the entire park going to make the lines worse? Especially if you also improve the other 3 parks to be full-day experiences on their own.

If a Western River Expedition with 3,000-3,200/hr capacity were added to Frontierland, the lines for Big Thunder and Splash would go down since it's the newest addition. And because of how high capacity it is, wait times should be relatively low for a new E (30-40 min).

Same goes for Fantasyland. If Bald Mountain (2,500/hr), B&TB trackless dark ride (2,500/hr), an Alice mini-land (4,000/hr with everything), a Pooh flat (600/hr), a dark ride instead of PFH (1,200/hr versus 400/hr), a new show after relocating Philharmagic to Main Street (3,000/hr), and a Pinocchio mini-land by the tents (4,500/hr) were all added... capacity would increase by 18,000/hr... SDMT's wait-times would be cut by 50-65% if Fantasyland provided more options. I doubt all of those additions would have 90-120 min waits like SDMT.

Doubling Tomorrowland's attraction count and replacing Stitch/Laugh Floor with more appealing attractions would indeed lower Space Mt/Buzz wait times. Especially if an E and 2 Ds with 2,500+/hr were added, along with some Cs with 1,500+/hr.

A JttCotE clone and a clone of Aladdin: The Musical would decrease wait-times for JC/POTC since they won't be the only worthwhile attractions in Adventureland anymore.

Your whole theory is based on stagnant attendance. Adding 30,000 in capacity isn't worth a thing if it means 32,000 extra people show up to experience all the new crap you built.

 

[mahnamahna101]

Your whole theory is based on stagnant attendance. Adding 30,000 in capacity isn't worth a thing if it means 32,000 extra people show up to experience all the new crap you built.

It's worth a thing if the same is done for Epcot, DHS, and AK

 

[CaptainAmerica]

It's worth a thing if the same is done for Epcot, DHS, and AK

On that, we agree. MK's best friend is expansion and general "filling in" of the other parks.

 

[matt9112]

Two day? Two days from 9am to midnight? Unless you want to experience EVERYTHING (M&Gs, rides, shows, walkthroughs, Streetmosphere, shops, both parades, the nighttime castle show, the fireworks, all of the restaurants), MK takes 1.5 days... if you're over the age of 10, it takes a full 8am-1am day to do MK (avoiding things like Stitch, etc)



Part of why you can't do MK in a day is because of how ridiculous some of the wait-times are. If there were 5-7 more major attractions and a few smaller ones to round it out, SDMT's wait-time would be cut in half, same for JC, Space and Buzz would go down, Splash would go down slightly, same for Big Thunder.

A JttCotE clone, a high-capacity show for Adventureland, Western River Expedition, a B&TB trackless dark ride, Bald Mountain, an Alice mini-land, a Pooh mini-land, a new dark ride where PFH is, a new show, 4-5 attractions for Tomorrowland, along with solid replacements for Stitch and Laugh Floor would spread crowds out. If Epcot, DHS and AK are stand-alone like you mention. MK needs some people-eaters to ease wait-times for the other headliners.

But with FP+, you can certainly do MK. After reserving 3 for before 12pm, you can pick up FPs for Jungle Cruise, IASW, POTC, Buzz, Mermaid, Pooh, the Speedway, Dumbo, Barnstormer, and even Big Thunder for the vast majority of the day. Reserve Peter Pan, Space and Splash, do SDMT at rope-drop, ... set for the day.

If you go from open to close, and only do everything once (8am-1am), you could probably do 90-95% of MK other than one or two shows, Astro Orbiter (always has a 40 min wait), the Riverboat, Swiss Family and Tom Sawyer. You just have to be willing to stay the entire day and maintain a steady pace.

If there where 3 or 4 more attractions at all the other three parks.....the issue is everybody knows they pale in comparison hell Disney's current pricing says hey we know the MK is better but.....icon wise MK should be the leader but as far as a days visit go AK or DHS....should be just as attractive but there not. Your ideas are why we are in this position to begin with.

 

[matt9112]

If you bulldoze the Skyway area, relocate CoP, build 2 stories on the space from Space Mt/CoP, replace Stitch since it really doesn't attract anyone right now lol, and bulldoze the Speedway to open up a guest pathway to a Tomorrowland expansion pad (using the old Speedway area for Fantasyland)... you could add 7-8 attractions to Tomorrowland. Granted, they wouldn't all be like Space Mt.

But an E, 2 Ds (1 between Space and CoP, 1 in expansion pad), 3 Cs, and 2 As/Bs would fit in all of that space. And 3 new major attractions would help out Space and Buzz a lot - especially if all 3 are high-capacity.

Or we could fix the two broken parks.....

 

[EnergyKing]

I agree, fix Epcot and DHS. And add to AK. This would help matters crowdwise.

 

[mahnamahna101]

Or we could fix the two broken parks.....

Or do a full build-out of all 4 parks

Epcot - $3 billion ($1.75 billion for Future World, $1.25 billion for World Showcase)
DHS - $2.5 billion (Star Wars, Pixar Place expansion, Muppets mini-land, GMR upgrade, Sunset/Animation Courtyard revamp, some placemaking)
MK - $2.5 billion (NFL Part 2, Frontierland/Liberty expansion, Adventureland expansion, MS expansion, Tomorrowland expansion/revamp)
AK - $2 billion (Dinoland revamp/expansion, new improved Yeti AA for Everest, expanded Kali, dark rides in Africa and Asia, new continent, 2 new attractions for Pandora)

$10 billion invested into WDW

 

[mahnamahna101]

If there where 3 or 4 more attractions at all the other three parks.....the issue is everybody knows they pale in comparison hell Disney's current pricing says hey we know the MK is better but.....icon wise MK should be the leader but as far as a days visit go AK or DHS....should be just as attractive but there not. Your ideas are why we are in this position to begin with.

No.

TDO's unwillingness to fully build out the other 3 gates is why we are in this position to begin with.

MK will always be the #1 park at WDW, so it makes sense to continue growing its attraction count once the other 3 are 1-1.5 days on their own.

 

[matt9112]

No.

TDO's unwillingness to fully build out the other 3 gates is why we are in this position to begin with.

MK will always be the #1 park at WDW, so it makes sense to continue growing its attraction count once the other 3 are 1-1.5 days on their own.

thats what i was saying....minus the attraction count MK is good....solid...nothing else needed EXCEPT replacing. (like stich)

you must not have understood what i was saying because i was essentially saying what you just said. (unwilling to build out other three parks)

 

[NeedMoreMickey]

Love Tom Sawyer island but the one problem I have is it's a day time attraction only. I think in our last three trips we only made it over there once because of timing.

 

[matt9112]

Or do a full build-out of all 4 parks

Epcot - $3 billion ($1.75 billion for Future World, $1.25 billion for World Showcase)
DHS - $2.5 billion (Star Wars, Pixar Place expansion, Muppets mini-land, GMR upgrade, Sunset/Animation Courtyard revamp, some placemaking)
MK - $2.5 billion (NFL Part 2, Frontierland/Liberty expansion, Adventureland expansion, MS expansion, Tomorrowland expansion/revamp)
AK - $2 billion (Dinoland revamp/expansion, new improved Yeti AA for Everest, expanded Kali, dark rides in Africa and Asia, new continent, 2 new attractions for Pandora)

$10 billion invested into WDW

are you going to pitch that to the board or?