Magic Kingdom to lose ROA, Riverboat, and TSI for Cars Land

[CaptinEO]

Well, then by all means let’s replace every beautiful, iconic thing in the Disney parks with a cartoon-based merch opportunity that six-year-olds will recognize.

We’re not here to teach and inspire! Literature and history is for rubes!

To heck with parents and grandparents and depth and beauty; Shallow! We want shallow, one-note parks!

The other poster was talking about a themepark attraction talking about americas misteps and history. As an adult thats OK but that just sounds depressing.

Disney hasn't been about teaching and inspiring for dedcades now.

Personally I don't need more thrill rides and enjoy ambiance but it isn't the direction the parks are going in and it doesn't make for flashy marketing.

 

[Consumer]

I hope someday to have a family and take them to Disney World at least once. Even though I do think many of its recent changes have been detrimental to the park and honestly there really isn't that much that appeals to me, there is something simply alluring about a family vacation to the Magic Kingdom, even more so than to Disneyland. It really is just part of the American Dream.

 

[Ne'er-Do-Well Cad]

I just don't understand this community's take on Jim Hill. Is he someone who just makes stuff up, or is he a legitimate source? Seems to change every week. Which episode (and relevant soundbite) would this have appeared in?

Haha. I've always enjoyed Jim & Len's podcast. Seems like they accurately report rumors, as they're hearing them in the moment (I've never taken these rumors as gospel). I think their commentary generally reflects the views of Disney parks fans, and they balance enthusiasm/cynicism pretty well.

I was referencing the 7/21/2024 episode "Disney Dish with Jim Hill Ep 489: How does WDW's new 'Country Bear' show stack up."

18 minutes in, Len starts musing on whether it's time to move on from the concept of Frontierland. It's a thoughtful discussion, and was certainly top of mind as I read today's Cars announcement. Again, I'm not saying Disney's DEI team is some all-powerful evil group pulling the strings in the parks. However, it seems obtuse to me to pretend that concerns about inclusion did not factor into the ROA/Cars decision.

 

[CaptinEO]

There’s a huge underutilized plot of land under that castle too, I guarantee a coaster would be more poplar than a castle they only use a few minutes a day for projections.

Where does it end?

There’s amusement parks all over the world that have vastly superior ride lineups to the Disney parks, but they aren’t Disney, it’s the theming and environment that make Disney special, not simply how popular the rides are.

I mean you can make this argument about anything being replaced.

Lets be honest, Disney is a multibillion dollar mega corporation. It's not a company ran by a creative visionary but a board of directors who's roles are to maximize profit.

It's not even a question for them to have an 1800s boat ride/walkthrough vs a thrill ride that will sell toys to kids and promote their TV and movie content.

Not saying it's justified but again it's not Walt Disney running the place.

Sad that this is the 2nd lagoon Magic Kindom has lost.

 

[PiratesMansion]

@Ne'er-Do-Well Cad I did see Len Testa make a post in another thread on this change about how, apparently, both Liberty Square and Frontierland involve "problematic areas of American History," so that's...something, and appears to give what you were saying some level of credence.

I don't know that that's still the primary reason for the change, but I do think the way history is being handled in the parks is misguided. Any and all history can be problematic. Things that seem fine now, including undoubtedly some of Disney's own media, will be seen as problematic in 20 years. It's unavoidable, and foolish to try and guess what will hold up and what won't. Doesn't mean things should never change, but being motivated exclusively by what is or might be seen as problematic is really short-sighted, and now I'm in the position of wondering if that is, in fact, motivating their decisions; not a place I wanted to be.

At any rate, is a theme park really an appropriate setting for a historically accurate presentation that monologues about the unfortunates of the time period and how horrible their lives were? Probably not, even if it's accurate. So it seems the solution Disney has arrived at is to remove history entirely in favor of less offensive, more profitable IP, which is just gross.

 

[CaptinEO]

@Ne'er-Do-Well Cad I did see Len Testa make a post in another thread on this change about how, apparently, both Liberty Square and Frontierland are "problematic areas of American History," so that's...something, and appears to give what you were saying some level of credence.

I don't know that that's still the primary reason for the change, but I do think the way history is being handled in the parks is misguided. Any and all history can be problematic. Things that seem fine now, including undoubtedly some of Disney's own media, will be seen as problematic in 20 years. It's unavoidable, and foolish to try and guess what will hold up and what won't. Doesn't mean things should never change, but being motivated exclusively by what is or might be seen as problematic is really short-sighted, and now I'm in the position of wondering if that is, in fact, motivating their decisions; not a place I wanted to be.

At any rate, is a theme park really an appropriate setting for a historically accurate presentation that monologues about the unfortunates of the time period and how horrible their lives were? Probably not, even if it's accurate. So it seems the solution Disney has arrived at is to remove history entirely in favor of less offensive, more profitable IP, which is just gross.

Lets also remember that the Magic Happens Parade art had Disneyland's Mainstreet as Mickey Avenue from @GiveMeTheMusic . Nothing is off limits.

I think it's easier to accept that the Disney Co of today holds nothing as being sacred (besides money).

 

[Consumer]

If Liberty Square is on the chopping block (which I expect it is), I wonder if it would be possible for the Haunted Mansion to be absorbed by the upcoming Villains land, or if it would be taken in by Frontierland.

 

[CaptinEO]

Once more of the first and second generations of imagineering leave the realm of influence to the company I don't see anyone vouching to save old classics like Marty Sklar and Tony Baxter have done in the past.

 

[networkpro]

Start up the bulldozers, there are memories to remove. One thing didn't and haven't addressed is dropping in clones of attractions designed thematically for one area in one park to other seemingly random places in the destination parks. It's quickly transforming from theme to amusement park. What's next on the chopping block ? If I were a Submarine Voyage fan, I'd be preparing a eulogy for that large plot of land.

 

[BasiltheBatLord]

While this is sad, and I think Cars does not belong anywhere in MK or Frontierland, I am honestly not that miffed about this on account of MK's RoA being a copy. I think DL's RoA is the more sacred land here.

But without getting too political: It's undeniable that a part of what is motivating this change and many others is socio-political activism within the company. We've known for years that TSI has had a target on it, and not just because kids today are unfamiliar with Tom Sawyer. There's a deliberate ideological campaign within the company to purge the parks of anything deemed "problematic". Splash Mountain was a casualty, the shooting arcade was a casualty, original CBJ was a casualty, the natives in Jungle Cruise were a casualty. And TSI confirms to me that there is more coming. Nothing is safe or sacred anymore.

I really do think it's possible we might see Main Street USA rethemed in our lifetimes. And when that happens it will be one of the final confirmations that I am not the audience for these parks anymore. I'm not angry or emotional about it (got over that shortly after the TBA announcement), but it's just a gradual and depressing realization that these parks are not for me anymore.

 

[Consumer]

While this is sad, and I think Cars does not belong anywhere in MK or Frontierland, I am honestly not that miffed about this on account of MK's RoA being a copy. I think DL's RoA is the more sacred land here.

But without getting too political: It's undeniable that a part of what is motivating this change and many others is socio-political activism within the company. We've known for years that TSI has had a target on it, and not just because kids today are unfamiliar with Tom Sawyer. There's a deliberate ideological campaign within the company to purge the parks of anything deemed "problematic". Splash Mountain was a casualty, the shooting arcade was a casualty, original CBJ was a casualty, the natives in Jungle Cruise were a casualty. And TSI confirms to me that there is more coming. Nothing is safe or sacred anymore.

I really do think it's possible we might see Main Street USA rethemed in our lifetimes. And when that happens it will be one of the final confirmations that I am not the audience for these parks anymore. I'm not angry or emotional about it (got over that shortly after the TBA announcement), but it's just a gradual and depressing realization that these parks are not for me anymore.

100%. And I feel the same way. I'm not upset over this. Frankly I don't care. I've never been to the Magic Kingdom and don't plan to go any time soon. I have much bigger problems in my life than to get worked up over a fake river in theme park. But I'm also going to call it out like I see it, and that's that this change is a mistake.

 

[SteveAZee]

Just as a thought exercise:

Suppose that the ROA area has been the Cars attraction as proposed for the last 20 or so years. Suppose Disney management announces that they'll be digging up the Cars attraction and replacing it with an island, some water, and a boat to run through the water. Are you upset, happy, or what? Is it change that's bothersome?

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

100%. And I feel the same way. I'm not upset over this. Frankly I don't care. I've never been to the Magic Kingdom and don't plan to go any time soon. I have much bigger problems in my life than to get worked up over a fake river in theme park. But I'm also going to call it out like I see it, and that's that this change is a mistake.

This is just one more brick in the wall for me, I’ve gone from a pixie dusting Disney addict to debating if any of the parks are worth the price anymore, I won’t lose any sleep over this, and I’m still cautiously optimistic they may pull it off, but Disney makes it incrementally more difficult to justify spending our money at the parks with every decision they make.

Thank God the old DCL boats still exist, it’s the one place we still feel the Disney Magic we used to feel at the parks.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Just as a thought exercise:

Suppose that the ROA area has been the Cars attraction as proposed for the last 20 or so years. Suppose Disney management announces that they'll be digging up the Cars attraction and replacing it with an island, some water, and a boat to run through the water. Are you upset, happy, or what? Is it change that's bothersome?

I’d be just as upset and asking myself why they aren’t using the thousands of acres of land available instead of always taking away something to “add” something.

In many ways this mirrors the Tiana controversy, had they simply announced a new Tiana ride everyone would have been thrilled, instead they replaced Splash with it. Had they simply added MMRR people would have been thrilled, instead they replaced TGMR with it.

This is just another case, in a long list, of Disney doing addition through subtraction.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

I’m terme of attractions for sure. I meant more in terms of atmosphere. I know what the ROA looks like.

The one in Florida is pretty unique actually - they are 2 very different places. While the Fantasmic stage is a brilliant design - it takes away some of the charm and the visuals that the MK one has. Plus there is the fort with the AA’s and the 2 mills.

If Liberty Square is on the chopping block (which I expect it is), I wonder if it would be possible for the Haunted Mansion to be absorbed by the upcoming Villains land, or if it would be taken in by Frontierland.

Haunted Mansion could go away too…. Maybe it will be one of the villians rides?

I am honestly not that miffed about this on account of MK's RoA being a copy. I think DL's RoA is the more sacred land here.

So MK shouldn’t have 80% of what it has because it’s a copy of DL? Not understanding that.

 

[Rich T]

I hope someday to have a family and take them to Disney World at least once. Even though I do think many of its recent changes have been detrimental to the park and honestly there really isn't that much that appeals to me, there is something simply alluring about a family vacation to the Magic Kingdom, even more so than to Disneyland. It really is just part of the American Dream.

But it became the American Dream based on how great the parks used to be.

Now they are becoming all cartoons all the time, with a focus on Bob Iger-era productions and acquisitions.

Things change. In this case, I do not think they’re changing for the better.

 

[mickEblu]

Wild that they’re not even putting a small to medium size water feature in that space. No lagoon, pond, river nothing. God forbid they “waste” an inch of space. All of those old attractions were designed to be facing the river. Now they’re all facing a CARS rally race ride? This is the company we spend/ waste so much of our time on? People that make these decisions? Completely gutting the entire ROA (the soul of the park) to add two rides at Disney World? That’s the size of the city? Ridiculous.

 

[Californian Elitist]

And we somehow got the shorter end of the stick regarding upcoming attractions? I don’t think so. And this isn’t the only reason why we didn’t.

 

[Consumer]

Wild that they’re not even putting a small to medium size water feature in that space. No lagoon, pond, river nothing. God forbid they “waste” an inch of space. All of those old attractions were designed to be facing the river. Now they’re all facing a CARS rally race ride? This is the company we spend/ waste so much of our time on? People that make these decisions? Completely gutting the entire ROA (the soul of the park) to add two rides at Disney World? That’s the size of the city? Ridiculous.

Imagine if they removed Disneyland's Rivers of America. The entirety of New Orleans Square encircling a racetrack.

 

[mickEblu]

Imagine if they removed Disneyland's Rivers of America. The entirety of New Orleans Square encircling a racetrack.

A nightmare thought.