Magic Kingdom to lose ROA, Riverboat, and TSI for Cars Land

Architectural Guinea Pig

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
To put this more logically, WDW was designed for the masses, and DL became designed for the fans (once the original pressure on it was moved to WDW). Disney will continue to make the correct decisions that align with what their fans want in the original resort (albeit with a few blunders), but WDW, whose ultimate goal was to be the American Vacation itself, will always change to match what the public wants.

If we as fans would like to visit RoA, there are plenty of options around the world to do so. This is also why I’m not as happy about Splash because it was a change to not one but both resorts. If they gutted RoA at DL, the entire community would be furious.
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
I may not have a STEM background but I can say that whether or not the river can be salvaged, the fact is every extra dollar in maintenance costs that goes to the ROA complex is a dollar “wasted” when churned through a modern MBA mindset which working in corporate America I can help recreate.

Assuming a modern corporate KPI checklist using following metrics, spending maintenance costs to maintain “free” RoA attractions is actually a problem and one any corporate business analyst would likely balk at. The problem is whether this is the right way to run a theme park… but it’s definitely predictable.

Metrics like:
- increasing per capita, per person spending when individuals are in the park. This is driven by LL sales and food/merch. Massive fail. Because the RoA draws people away from spending money its existence actually hurts this metric. In fact even just mothballing it would at least push people to be forced to go back to Main Street to eat/shop or go to other IP based attractions.
- Optimizing Disney+ and existing Disney licensed IP synergies. The RoA fails here as well. There is really nothing on D+ that is tied to Tom Sawyer directly and it’s not a known franchise.
- Promoting the marketability of the parks segment - issue here is corporate sees “new” and “recognizable IP” as more marketable, goes with the last One.
- Increasing on property sales for deluxe resort rooms and amenities; including DVC - Fail here too. Why would I go to the hotel to get some R&R when I can just go unwind at RoA for an hour or 2? Again - in TDO’s mind - you want a “chill” place to unwind - that’s not covered in your standard admission, you should pay extra. Also deluxe resorts sell lightning land reservations which brings me back to our first point.
- Making the parks more safe and inclusive - This is a lesser direct risk since I’m not sure the properties are as problematic as they are considered “non-contemporary”. However safety means large bodies of water and play structures are legal liabilities, including OSHA, ADA, etc. Inclusive means properties that are not perceived as nationalistic and fit generic themes.
All true but makes me sad.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
To put this more logically, WDW was designed for the masses, and DL became designed for the fans (once the original pressure on it was moved to WDW). Disney will continue to make the correct decisions that align with what their fans want in the original resort (albeit with a few blunders), but WDW, whose ultimate goal was to be the American Vacation itself, will always change to match what the public wants.

If we as fans would like to visit RoA, there are plenty of options around the world to do so. This is also why I’m not as happy about Splash because it was a change to not one but both resorts. If they gutted RoA at DL, the entire community would be furious.

I agree with most of this but I want to push back on the notion that are plenty of other options in the world to visit the ROA. IMO there are only four other places now to visit the ROA - Tokyo, Anaheim, Paris and Hong Kong. Sure there are rivers all over the world but how many of them have steamboats going around in circles, have jazz music playing in the background, the smell of popcorn in there air with rides like Haunted Mansion and Thunder Mountain just a hop, skip and a jump away. The ROA is part of the quintessential Disney castle park experience. So if you're a local and loved the ROA at MK you now have to hop on a plane for a minimum of 5 hours for that experience again. Granted, nature/ natural parks are amazing in their own right and should be experienced by more of us but to say there are plenty of options around the world is just not accurate. One of the things I love about Disneyland is that I can park my car and enjoy the ambiance of the Rivers of America, ride a rollercoaster in space or runaway mine train all on the same day. I feel like removing the ROA takes a big piece of the puzzle out of the castle park experience and it just cant be replaced with a Cars rally ride.
 
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mickEblu

Well-Known Member
In the end it all comes down to escapism. That was Disneys bread and butter. The ROA is a masterclass in escapism. A cars Rally ride could never compare in that respect. Also remains to be seen how much of the attraction can be enjoyed by those not riding. The ROA could be enjoyed and appreciated by all.
 

PiratesMansion

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
To put this more logically, WDW was designed for the masses, and DL became designed for the fans (once the original pressure on it was moved to WDW). Disney will continue to make the correct decisions that align with what their fans want in the original resort (albeit with a few blunders), but WDW, whose ultimate goal was to be the American Vacation itself, will always change to match what the public wants.

If we as fans would like to visit RoA, there are plenty of options around the world to do so. This is also why I’m not as happy about Splash because it was a change to not one but both resorts. If they gutted RoA at DL, the entire community would be furious.
The trouble is, there's a very thin line between sentiments like this turning into 'Disney World is for stupid people so it's fine if they ruin it as long as the sacred Disneyland is spared', yuk yuk yuk, and the underlying assumptions that everything at Disneyland inherently has more value than anything at WDW, or that Disneyland gets "better" results because they have "better" fans. Not to say that that was your intent or view specifically, just that it seems to happen with irritating frequency among many, many people in this fandom.
I agree with most of this but I want to push back on the notion that are plenty of other options in the world to visit the ROA. IMO there are only four other places now to visit the ROA - Tokyo, Anaheim, Paris and Hong Kong.
*Three. Hong Kong doesn't have a ROA, just Jungle Cruise cosplaying as such in terms of layout.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
The trouble is, there's a very thin line between sentiments like this turning into 'Disney World is for stupid people so it's fine if they ruin it as long as the sacred Disneyland is spared', yuk yuk yuk, and the underlying assumptions that everything at Disneyland inherently has more value than anything at WDW, or that Disneyland gets "better" results because they have "better" fans. Not to say that that was your intention specifically, just that it seems to happen with irritating frequency among many, many people in this fandom.

*Three. Hong Kong doesn't have a ROA, just Jungle Cruise cosplaying as such in terms of layout.

Hahah i originally didn’t have Hong Kong in there and decided to throw it in cuz I kind of thought it fit the bill.
 

PiratesMansion

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Hahah i originally didn’t have Hong Kong in there and decided to throw it in cuz I kind of thought it fit the bill.
Shanghai also has a huge water feature (unnamed as far as I know) with canoes! But decidedly open for the bulk of it, which is a choice.

Experiencing Jungle Cruise with a ROA layout is a weird, weird experience. As is the corresponding humidity so powerful that even with like 20 fans in the queue going full blast, they do absolutely nothing to promote airflow or make the wait feel at all pleasant, even though they're trying very, very hard!
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
Shanghai also has a huge water feature (unnamed as far as I know) with canoes! But decidedly open for the bulk of it, which is a choice.

Experiencing Jungle Cruise with a ROA layout is a weird, weird experience. As is the corresponding humidity so powerful that even with like 20 fans in the queue going full blast, they do absolutely nothing to promote airflow or make the wait feel at all pleasant, even though they're trying very, very hard!

I know some people say Hong Kong has the best JC but for me the River looks way too wide open to get that nod.
 
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