mickEblu
Well-Known Member
I find that hard to believe. I think even the normies will feel like something is wrong or missing next time they go to the park
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Magic Kingdom to lose ROA, Riverboat, and TSI for Cars Land
- Thread starter PiratesMansion
- Start date
I find that hard to believe. I think even the normies will feel like something is wrong or missing next time they go to the park
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
The marquee was completely hidden from view next to Superstar Limo. I’m not entirely sure if super star was open for my one visit to DCA 1.0 - if it was I’m so sad I missed out on that experience haha.
If muppets had a proper marquee facing the street like Philharmagic does it would be getting the same numbers.
Muppets never existed for DCA 2.0 did it?
Disney Irish
Premium Member
Maybe, but it should be telling that most of the "heartache" over this is from the DL side of the forum. Because if even the most hard core WDW fans on a fan site like this mostly aren't up in arms me thinks the "normies" aren't going to care as much as you think. It'll be "Didn't there used to be a river here where the new Cars ride is, oh well lets get in line". As most "normies", especially on their once in a lifetime trip or once every few years trip, only care about the latest attraction and not stuff from the past.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
Muppets existed in DCA until 2014, so yes it was there for DCA 2.0.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
Disney Irish
Premium Member
As far as I remember? Because the entrance to Phil was formerly part of the Award Wieners seating, if I'm remembering correctly.
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
I mean it’s weird for sure. Still trying to understand it. Like I said earlier I think some of the attention is diverted right now because of Muppets. But I’ll acknowledge that it doesn’t appear to be as revered as Disneylands version. Now with that said it does appear that many people in favor of it going are newer accounts
Misted Compass
Active Member
Yeah I believe Philharmagic got its entrance rerouted in mid 2019 (I think it used the old Muppetvision entrance for the first few months)
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
There’s also some weird positives from some who could potentially benefit from Disney liking what they post.
If an arena full of Disney park fans are completely silent and some vocally oppose the plan, you’d think Bob and Josh would at least have a 5 minute coffee chat over the decision. I’m not convinced that plan will go forward as announced.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
To me its not that weird though. And I guess some could be because of Muppets, but that isn't even a confirmed location yet so I think that is just an excuse. I think its more explained as its just not as revered as DL. DL is Walt's Park, its more steeped in history compared to WDW.I mean it’s weird for sure. Still trying to understand it. Like I said earlier I think some of the attention is diverted right now because of Muppets. But I’ll acknowledge that it doesn’t appear to be as revered as Disneylands version. Now with that said it does appear that many people in favor of it going are newer accounts
If the situation was reversed and this was coming to DL instead I think you'd see the entire forum up in arms over it. I remember all the "heartache" over even RoA being shortened for GE, and that was keeping the river.
I agree that this is going to hurt MK more than many are expecting. As for the difference in sentiment between sides of the board, I think a lot of it has to come down to the fact that there's so, so much going on at WDW and so much pressure to do it all that the Magic Kingdom, while important, is much more of a cog in a machine than is the case anywhere else, just because there's so much going on around the property, so much to do in a limited amount of vacation time. And there's so much pressure to get the big ticket stuff done that it's much easier for the river to become something easy to forget about. Especially when the hours are shorter, the weather is worse, everything has FP, and so many other variables that make WDW more difficult to tour than the other resorts around the world.
There's less of a sense of "this is an important part of what makes MK work" than there is "this is the park with the castle and the mountains and IASW and parades and fireworks". I think part of the reason that more aspects of DL are appreciated is because there are so many repeat visitors, and after you've done the highlights a number of times it becomes easier to gravitate towards the non-marquee experiences, the ones that help fill out your day but don't necessarily draw people there much of the time. And while the number of WDW locals has grown over the years, there historically haven't been anywhere near as many as there are at DLR. So the park long ago got CliffNoted into a checklist of iconic experiences, and there was never a sizeable enough portion of locals to come to appreciate such attractions or become something WDW is concerned about when it comes to making these decisions. So on paper, these experiences become easier to axe than they would be elsewhere.
Muppetvision wasn't around for much of DCA 2.0, but it was definitely there for my first few visits as an adult, the first of which wasn't until 2013. My first time ever experiencing ITTBAB and Muppetvision was at DCA.
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Disney Irish
Premium Member
I don't remember the exact timeline, but you're probably right as I vaguely remember using the old entrance when it first opened.
DrAlice
Well-Known Member
I have made this observation also. It's reminiscent of a previous era on these forums.I mean it’s weird for sure. Still trying to understand it. Like I said earlier I think some of the attention is diverted right now because of Muppets. But I’ll acknowledge that it doesn’t appear to be as revered as Disneylands version. Now with that said it does appear that many people in favor of it going are newer accounts
DrAlice
Well-Known Member
The interesting thing to me about this is that they are choosing to add things to MK (the most popular of all 4 parks), when HS and AK have a much bigger need for attractions to feel like a "full-day park". I mean, I understand that MK needs more park capacity, but the need to round out the other parks to draw visitors away is equally important.
Tony the Tigger
Well-Known Member
Glad it stays in one park! I’ve long advocated for each park to have more differences than carbon copies. Gives me a reason to go west.
Ne'er-Do-Well Cad
Well-Known Member
I don't know what WDW message board you're all reading, but there are countless posters on the WDW side distraught over the Rivers of America news. It's absolutely a sacred part of that park, and Disney will be losing diehard fans over this decision.
John park hopper
Well-Known Member
Bob doesn't care ----he will be long gone when this travesty is completed sitting on his yacht counting his money
Disney Irish
Premium Member
But I thought you guys were so sure that Bob was staying forever.
October82
Well-Known Member
Your post is a nice summary of how these kinds of decisions get made, but there's a missing bit of context. Metrics/KPI are defined relative to the goals that a company has. Many of the examples you give assume what the right goals for a corporate manager to have are. For example, should Disney optimize the design of the park for the sale of DVC units? Or for guest satisfaction? Hopefully those things aren't in tension but you gave a nice example of when they might be - if I have to leave the parks and return to my DVC unit to relax, maybe I had a slightly worse day.
It also speaks to the larger issue here - which is Disney used to think of itself as a storytelling and themed entertainment company. It empowered its designers and artists to make decisions and became the industry leader as a result. The problem is that, over the last several decades, large American companies have increasingly specialized in a single market or service. For a diversified media conglomerate like Disney, this has taken the form of a focus on franchising IP rather than storytelling (or hospitality). Disney isn't a company that sells theme park tickets, hotel rooms, or DVC units. Disney isn't a company that makes movies (family, animated, or otherwise). Disney is a company that owns and markets intellectual property. This is what Iger was, and arguably is, unusually good at. But it is, at best, a break with the exceptional strengths that Disney had as a company before Iger and that won over many people who are fans of the company. What you see on forums like this one is largely a split between fans of Disney's design driven era and Disney's IPs.
I won't claim there is an exact parallel, but there is another company that famously embraced this philosophy and has suffered the consequences of misidentifying its core competency. That company is Boeing. And like Disney, Boeing became an 'aviation services' ("airplane IP") company rather than an engineering company. The consequences of that decision have, literally, been tragic. Although the stakes for Disney are nowhere near as extreme, companies that rely on poorly conceived metrics to measure performance towards even more poorly conceived business goals, end up - at least in the case of Boeing - with what may charitably be described as uncertain futures.
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October82
Well-Known Member
To be clear - when describing the engineering side, I'm just referring to the clearly false claims about the state of the RoA itself that were made and repeated.
Operational challenges are a more cogent explanation, although it's not an especially difficult or costly engineering challenge to build a pedestrian bridge.