News Magic Kingdom July 2020 reopening reports

[SpectroMagician]

Countless posts have been devoted to this discussion. You have to separate legacy FP from FP+. Please hang with me to see why there are so many complaints.

The bottom line is that FP+ was created to redistribute crowds to avoid further investments in rides (obviously, that didn’t work). The entire venture was based on a gross misunderstanding of Blue Ocean business strategy. This isn’t a fan theory; this is what Disney told Wall Street. Nobody was trying to make Guest experiences more magical or pixie dusted. Execs hoped eventually everything could be scheduled like a cruise ship, and Guests would be so happy bouncing from place to place that Disney would rarely have to build a new ride or show. At the time, DVC resorts were more important than the theme parks.

FP+ forces long standby waits at attractions that would otherwise ebb and flow as crowds moved around throughout the day. Disney does this by splitting loading docks, understaffing, etc. A common example is how Space Mt. will often limit one track to FP-only and keep a massive standby queue on the other side; yet the attraction‘s original queue was built to split crowds and accommodate high capacities. POTC does the same thing. Over the last few years, theme park experts have called out Disney for sending empty boats from the FP+ dock while the POTC standby queue is over 45 minutes long. Sometimes a local Ops lead will combine guests at a split point, but official protocol is to keep the loading docks separated so the FP+ holders feel like they have an advantage.

Back in the days of paper FP, Disney turned off the machines when attendance was low and selectively used them on busier days. FP has always been a shell game, but the old system DID work because few attractions had the service. You could knock out other rides while waiting for a FP return.

Theoretical spreadsheet numbers about riders per hour don’t matter when real-life ops purposely allow queues to back up.

The gamble didn’t work, FP+ was never rolled out to other resorts, and I hope Disney takes advantage of current conditions to switch to a digital version like Tokyo uses. I use FP+ because I don’t have a choice, but I’d rather go to a digital version of the paper system so that only headliners get FP.

At Space they fill up the Fastpass side with standby if it is empty. They have the re-join right there at the end, same with basically every other ride. Again the same amount of people are going through the ride as each ride has a capacity. All you are doing is shifting who is going through.

 

[phillip9698]

Your argument that the park at 10% capacity not needing Fastpass is a reason we should get rid of it entirely is moronic. Fastpass is a huge benefit for people who plan things out in advanced as with the park at full capacity you would never be able to ride then without waiting hours. Remember rides have a certain amount of people per hour, Fastpass just shifts it from people who planned to people who did not. So if you get rid of Fastpass the standby lines would not get any shorter as the same amount of people would be going through the ride. With Fastpass and proper planning you can do so much more than if they did not have it.

At multiple points in the article you make the assumption that the amount of people on a Cast Member day is the number they will have when opened to the public in a few weeks. There will definitely be more people. Also Disney would go out of business real quick if they limited themselves like this long term.

There are some fastpass experts here with the data to prove you wrong. If your idea of a great time at Disney is jumping straight on 3 rides but waiting a very long time for all the others then fastpass has done its job. For everyone else it took queues that were designed to always move and turned them into parking lots. It transformed a scenario where one person could only occupy one queue at a time into a system where one person can occupy 4 queues.

 

[wdwmagic]

Why is the PeopleMover closed?

It was cycling intermittently yesterday, but did not open to guests. There has also been weather issues today and yesterday. It appears to at least be attempting to operate. We'll see what happens.

 

[SpectroMagician]

There are some fastpass experts here with the data to prove you wrong. If your idea of a great time at Disney is jumping straight on 3 rides but waiting a very long time for all the others then fastpass has done its job. For everyone else it took queues that were designed to always move and turned them into parking lots. It transformed a scenario where one person could only occupy one queue at a time into a system where one person can occupy 4 queues.

The only way your argument works is if FP makes less ride vehicles leave the loading dock. Can you explain how that possibly happens?

Also if you do the parks correctly, you do not wait long in lines as you go when they are short. And save FP for the ones that are always long.

 

[SpectroMagician]

Cast Previews were at capacity.

What % of total capacity was it though? The same % as they will be during August/September? Most likely it was lower than it will be when it opens to the public and hotel guests.

 

[wdwmagic]

What % of total capacity was it though? The same % as they will be during August/September? Most likely it was lower than it will be when it opens to the public and hotel guests.

Yes that remains unclear. My guess is very low for CM previews, perhaps the same or slightly higher for APs, and then slightly higher for public. Then a phased ramp up after that.

 

[JD2000]

Yeah because there is a pandemic. Theme and immersion can take a back seat for now. Safety first.

there are ways to reduce the speed of transmission without completely ruining immersion. for instance; themed face coverings for cast members, themed and minimal size distancing stickers in queues, close every second row on appropriate ride vehicles. etc. and then there is going overboard; cast members wearing face shields, plexiglass barriers in queues and on ride vehicles. not operating the haunted mansion stretching room when everyone is wearing masks and can be spread apart. etc.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Here is a full report from yesterday

What it's like visit the Magic Kingdom with new COVID-19 health and safety restrictions

What it's like to visit the Magic Kingdom with new COVID-19 health and safety restrictions

The Magic Kingdom is now in soft opening previews as Walt Disney World prepares to reopening from July 11.

www.wdwmagic.com

Correct. As your recap properly stated, this will demonstrate the effects FP+ has had on crowd conditions; Excel-sheet theories about riders-per-hour don’t matter when real-life parks Ops are handled differently.

Thanks for the excellent recap. It looks like Disney is handling this better than anyone else! I’m tempted to book a trip before the vaccine, which was my original plan.

This is an excellent write-up and I'm grateful for it.

However, since it was mentioned twice in the article and repeated by a forum user as part of the forum orthodoxy that FP+ is the cause of long lines, I'm going to go ahead and address this.

I've been to MK during those days of old in the Fall when it was 'dead' and, there was still FP+. And there weren't long lines on all the attractions. Why? Because it was dead. Except for the few headliners that always have a line, the FP line was no faster than the standby... because it was dead. FP+ didn't magically create backed-up lines, because there weren't enough people to fill backed-up lines.

Now, jump to a now typical day when the MK is getting twice the number of people it was designed for. Lines everywhere. And not because of FP, but because there's twice the number of people the park is designed for. The Peoplemover, which has no FP attached to it and has one of the highest throughputs of People per Hour winds up with an hour long wait. And that's because the park is past its tipping point.

You can sneer at spreadsheets, @tirian, but that's data. It's information. You can't hold an opinion that ignores or runs counter to actual reality. The attractions can only throughput a limited number of people. That's a hard fact that can be represented in a spreadsheet. And if you have more people in the park wanting to go on those attractions, you've passed a tipping point and lines will form and grow longer and longer.

The lengthening of lines everywhere happened at the same time the attendance kept climbing and FP+ was introduced. I don't know why or how anyone would blame the lines on FP+ rather than on the obvious reason: A ton more people in the parks.

When Smuggler's Run lost its FP+ line, it wound up with the same hour-long waits at the other headliners in DHS. Why? More people in DHS than it was designed for (thanks to RotR and then MMRR). People were excited to see Smuggler's FP coming to an end and they proclaimed, "NOW we'll see what happens when you take away FP!!" Nothing happened except continued long lines. And yet, the blind faith and orthodoxy of the boards is that long lines are attributed to FP and not to... you know... huge and packed crowds.

The article mentions over and over how there's hardly anyone in the park, but then attributes no lines not to the lack of people, but to the lack of FP+. Meanwhile, the article is delighted there are no crowds and lines at the eateries, but attributes that to... lack of people. How does a low crowd become the reason there are no lines at the eateries, but it is not the reason there are no lines at the rides?

I know that FP isn't perfect in the way it distributes its 'cut the line' perk. But on crowded days, it just shifts people in the long lines, it doesn't cause long lines. This forum orthodoxy regarding FP+'s ability to create lines has no logic to it. But let's say it did... If there was FP+ enabled yesterday, who thinks we'd be seeing 30 minute or more lines at the majority of the attractions?

 

[DisneyJoe]

Execs hoped eventually everything could be scheduled like a cruise ship

???

 

[Horizons '83]

there are ways to reduce the speed of transmission without completely ruining immersion. for instance; themed face coverings for cast members, themed and minimal size distancing stickers in queues, close every second row on appropriate ride vehicles. etc. and then there is going overboard; cast members wearing face shields, plexiglass barriers in queues and on ride vehicles. not operating the haunted mansion stretching room when everyone is wearing masks and can be spread apart. etc.

Ah yes themed masks would almost certainly make it feel like there isn't a pandemic! Fact of the matter is that there is. Disney is giving them disposable masks because they are most likely going through multiple's a shift. Stickers need to be that large so everyone can see them and adhere to them, and the stretch room idea was a no brainer, why risk it when you can walk through it? It it will be functional again, just not this year and possibly next. Face Shields aren't over board by any means, and the Plexiglas can go a long way in the spread. Thing is, its the combination of these things that will hopefully prevent the spread, not just masks.

 

[CastAStone]

Here’s the basic idea of FP+ making the waits longer

For ride A, persons 1-6 walk up to a ride at the same time:
Person 1 and person 2 are willing to wait 20 minutes
Persons 3 and 4 are willing to wait 40 minutes
Persons 5 and 6 are willing to wait 60 minutes

If the wait is 30 minutes with no FP, persons 3, 4, 5, and 6 get in line and persons 1+2 do not. 4 people have gotten in line.

If the wait is 30 minutes and persons 1, 3, and 5 have FPs, persons 1, 3, 4, 5, and 6 get in line. 5 people have now gotten in line.

With 1 extra person in line, the wait for the next guest (person 7) is a tiny bit longer. Repeat all day and eventually the wait will hit 41 minutes and you’ll lose people like persons 3 and 4, balancing it out, but now the wait time is higher.

 

[wdwmagic]

This is an excellent write-up and I'm grateful for it.

However, since it was mentioned twice in the article and repeated by a forum user as part of the forum orthodoxy that FP+ is the cause of long lines, I'm going to go ahead and address this.

I've been to MK during those days of old in the Fall when it was 'dead' and, there was still FP+. And there weren't long lines on all the attractions. Why? Because it was dead. Except for the few headliners that always have a line, the FP line was no faster than the standby... because it was dead. FP+ didn't magically create backed-up lines, because there weren't enough people to fill backed-up lines.

Now, jump to a now typical day when the MK is getting twice the number of people it was designed for. Lines everywhere. And not because of FP, but because there's twice the number of people the park is designed for. The Peoplemover, which has no FP attached to it and has one of the highest throughputs of People per Hour winds up with an hour long wait. And that's because the park is past its tipping point.

You can sneer at spreadsheets, @tirian, but that's data. It's information. You can't hold an opinion that ignores or runs counter to actual reality. The attractions can only throughput a limited number of people. That's a hard fact that can be represented in a spreadsheet. And if you have more people in the park wanting to go on those attractions, you've passed a tipping point and lines will form and grow longer and longer.

The lengthening of lines everywhere happened at the same time the attendance kept climbing and FP+ was introduced. I don't know why or how anyone would blame the lines on FP+ rather than on the obvious reason: A ton more people in the parks.

When Smuggler's Run lost its FP+ line, it wound up with the same hour-long waits at the other headliners in DHS. Why? More people in DHS than it was designed for (thanks to RotR and then MMRR). People were excited to see Smuggler's FP coming to an end and they proclaimed, "NOW we'll see what happens when you take away FP!!" Nothing happened except continued long lines. And yet, the blind faith and orthodoxy of the boards is that long lines are attributed to FP and not to... you know... huge and packed crowds.

The article mentions over and over how there's hardly anyone in the park, but then attributes no lines not to the lack of people, but to the lack of FP+. Meanwhile, the article is delighted there are no crowds and lines at the eateries, but attributes that to... lack of people. How does a low crowd become the reason there are no lines at the eateries, but it is not the reason there are no lines at the rides?

I know that FP isn't perfect in the way it distributes its 'cut the line' perk. But on crowded days, it just shifts people in the long lines, it doesn't cause long lines. This forum orthodoxy regarding FP+'s ability to create lines has no logic to it. But let's say it did... If there was FP+ enabled yesterday, who thinks we'd be seeing 30 minute or more lines at the majority of the attractions?

I understand your points.

My point in the article was more about how the complete lack of FP+ frees the guest from the pressure of planning, and gives so much flexibility. Heading into an entire day at the MK without planning, and knowing you can ride what you want, when you want, is kind of amazing nowadays. It hasn't been that way in a long long time. And when I say FP+ negative impacts the park experience, it is more in relation to that aspect. Of course currently, the main reason for low wait times is the lack of people.

 

[Parker in NYC]

there are ways to reduce the speed of transmission without completely ruining immersion. for instance; themed face coverings for cast members, themed and minimal size distancing stickers in queues, close every second row on appropriate ride vehicles. etc. and then there is going overboard; cast members wearing face shields, plexiglass barriers in queues and on ride vehicles. not operating the haunted mansion stretching room when everyone is wearing masks and can be spread apart. etc.

Another way to cope with the loss of immersion is for folks to watch the billion YouTube videos of the parks.

 

[phillip9698]

The only way your argument works is if FP makes less ride vehicles leave the loading dock. Can you explain how that possibly happens?

Also if you do the parks correctly, you do not wait long in lines as you go when they are short. And save FP for the ones that are always long.

Disney staffs their rides according to FP+ numbers. If FP+ numbers arent high they dont staff and run the rides to capacity, saving money but keeping the wait time high.

Before FP+ if a line was short, you hopped in it and were through the queue quickly. After FP+ a standby line can be short but its fools gold because thats not the actual line. The real line is the 70% of capacity occupied during that hour by invisible FP+ riders. These invisible riders are occupying the queue of numerous rides simultaneously.

 

[wdwmagic]

At multiple points in the article you make the assumption that the amount of people on a Cast Member day is the number they will have when opened to the public in a few weeks. There will definitely be more people. Also Disney would go out of business real quick if they limited themselves like this long term.

Which is why I ended with
"And where things become even more difficult to manage is when the attendance numbers are increased. It is clear that Disney cannot operate long term with such low attendance. So what will the experience look like when the capacity is raised, but the same restrictions remain in place."

 

[MisterPenguin]

I understand your points.

My point in the article was more about how the complete lack of FP+ frees the guest from the pressure of planning, and gives so much flexibility. Heading into an entire day at the MK without planning, and knowing you can ride what you want, when you want, is kind of amazing nowadays. It hasn't been that way in a long long time. And when I say FP+ negative impacts the park experience, it is more in relation to that aspect. Of course currently, the main reason for low wait times is the lack of people.

Thanks for the response!

 

[JD2000]

Ah yes themed masks would almost certainly make it feel like there isn't a pandemic! Fact of the matter is that there is. Disney is giving them disposable masks because they are most likely going through multiple's a shift. Stickers need to be that large so everyone can see them and adhere to them, and the stretch room idea was a no brainer, why risk it when you can walk through it? It it will be functional again, just not this year and possibly next. Face Shields aren't over board by any means, and the Plexiglas can go a long way in the spread. Thing is, its the combination of these things that will hopefully prevent the spread, not just masks.

you are clearly scared. poorly interpreting what I said. and misinformed on the reality of this virus. but that is okay. they are doing everything to make sure you feel comfortable.

 

[Horizons '83]

you are clearly scared. poorly interpreting what I said. and misinformed on the reality of this virus. but that is okay. they are doing everything to make sure you feel comfortable.

Oh of course I couldn't be making good points could I?

 

[lentesta]

yes, here is a pic

Magic Kingdom reopening from COVID-19 closure - Photo 64 of 115

Magic Kingdom reopening from COVID-19 closure - Photo 64 of 115

www.wdwmagic.com

And I think this was the only one I saw. I didn't check Tomorrowland that close, though - it's possible there's one over there. I'll check tomorrow.

 

[lentesta]

What's everyone's take on these plexiglass barriers? Do you think they will remain permanent fixtures or eventually removed at the right time once things get back to normal? (Are we ever going to go back to normal, even after a vaccine?)

They became an afterthought by the second or third ride. Honestly, on rides like Jungle Cruise by late afternoon in the heat, I think most of y'all would prefer leaning against plexiglass to leaning on or smelling me. And vice versa.