Magic Kingdom evening Extra Magic Hours attraction line-up to change next week

[wannab@dis]

The BTMRR accident was caused by a broken connector bar on the front car. This should have been caught during the overnight maintenance inspection, but the outside contractors failed to do a full inspection. I have the full report, but not in front of me. I seem to recall one worker signing off on an inspection that wasn't done.

Yes, the ride ops should have pulled the train, but it was a train that never should have left the barn that day.

The incident where the cleat flew off the Columbia and killed a guy was the direct result of wood rot on the ship's railing. Reduced maintenance prevented said rot from being addressed in a timely manner.

I already replied to the issue above and I agree there were training issues. However, the root cause of the BTMRR was human error. The tag issue was not a root cause. I will agree with you that training should be paramount. Period.

As for my posting style, I don't feel it has changed. I strive to be completely fair, but brutally honest. Sadly, these days, situations make me often appear more negative than I would prefer.

Yeah, it has. You've always been more a middle road poster, but you've really become more negative. To hear some of the hyperbole coming from some (not you), there should be dead bodies laying everywhere among collapsed buildings and attractions.

The thread has went off track because of the "decimated" issue. Maintenance should be improved. No question. But let's not take it to such a degree that it's laughable, and ignored!

 

[xdan0920]

I already replied to the issue above and I agree there were training issues. However, the root cause of the BTMRR was human error. The tag issue was not a root cause. I will agree with you that training should be paramount. Period.

Yeah, it has. You've always been more a middle road poster, but you've really become more negative. To hear some of the hyperbole coming from some (not you), there should be dead bodies laying everywhere among collapsed buildings and attractions.

The thread has went off track because of the "decimated" issue. Maintenance should be improved. No question. But let's not take it to such a degree that it's laughable, and ignored!

You are missing the point. Lee is not becoming a more negative person. The product is becoming more negative, and he is commenting on it honestly. Not that he needs me to defend him.

 

[wannab@dis]

But it was management's fault by not properly staffing the maintenance crew. What happened was the mechanics working that night were very thin because of some on vacation, they decided they didn't need any extra people, they didn't want to pay any overtime. So they just used an minimum amount of workers as they plenty of times before. Then the supervisor needed someone to check the trains at BTMRR but other guys were busy so they decided to use someone from another area who was not familar or even worked on BTMRR before and they told him to check out the trains for any loose or missing hardware. I can't blame the worker because he never worked on the trains before, but was expected to do it right. So he missed a loose nut connecting the 1st car to the 2nd car and there was no cotter pin preventing the nut from backing out. No one ever second checked the job and just hoped he did it right.

I'll find the report again and check it since I missed the point about the worker never having worked BTMRR prior to that night. If that's the case, you're right, that was somebody's really bad decision.

I did see they normally had a crew of 7, but only 6 were there. I would assume that happens fairly often to have a person missing on any given time. People call in and miss work.

 

[wannab@dis]

The thread has went off track because of the "decimated" issue. Maintenance should be improved. No question. But let's not take it to such a degree that it's laughable, and ignored!

I'm going to quote myself simply so that part isn't lost within a longer post. I truly believe there are things that should be improved. But exaggeration, hyperbole and rants will only hurt the goal of pushing for excellence at the parks. It will be ignored as the ramblings of simply uninformed forum posters.

 

[Goofnut1980]

I do love Big Thunder at night... Totally different feeling. Splash on the other hand - eh, not a loss to me.

 

[janoimagine]

Don't disagree that they didn't have many options to replace it with. That said, literally any other ride in the entire park would be a more popular choice. This has to be the least popular ride in the Magic Kingdom...no?

It really depends on who you talk too. It's got a notalgia factor for me because it was my mothers favorite in the 70's and 80's. That being said I wouldn't waste the 10 or 15 minutes on it during EMH, however I believe that during EMH pretty much every attraction is open that people would ride, with the exception of Jungle Cruise, which really needs a refit, the Hall of Presidents, and possibly a couple other B tickets that really dont do much anyways ... so ... yeah, the truth is they only have themselves to blame for this for not expanding when they should have been all along.

 

[jbdorman]

I do love Big Thunder at night... Totally different feeling. Splash on the other hand - eh, not a loss to me.

Really? Oh man I love both of them. You're right Big Thunder is great at night but my favorite drop in Splash is the one in the dark so at night it makes the big drop even more awesome because its a huge drop into the unseeable bottom!

 

[jbdorman]

It really depends on who you talk too. It's got a notalgia factor for me because it was my mothers favorite in the 70's and 80's. That being said I wouldn't waste the 10 or 15 minutes on it during EMH, however I believe that during EMH pretty much every attraction is open that people would ride, with the exception of Jungle Cruise, which really needs a refit, the Hall of Presidents, and possibly a couple other B tickets that really dont do much anyways ... so ... yeah, the truth is they only have themselves to blame for this for not expanding when they should have been all along.

Jungle Cruise refit has got to be coming after the movie comes out. That is my hope anyway.

 

[raven]

See the post right below yours. It was around whether or not there have been detrimental cuts in maintenance personel and consolidations of teams over the years and no replacement of CMs who have left for whatever reason to the point that leaves maintenance under funded and under staffed.

There is so many maintenence people that they are tripping over themselves to actually do the work. Basically they are overstaffed.

 

[jt04]

There is so many maintenence people that they are tripping over themselves to actually do the work. Basically they are overstaffed.

Thanks for bringing some reality to the round table where we discuss fantasy. It is a much needed gust of fresh air. And is always appreciated.

Never knew a Raven could do all that.

 

[TalkingHead]

There is so many maintenence people that they are tripping over themselves to actually do the work. Basically they are overstaffed.

If that's the case, then why cut Splash from EMH? Just have the excessively-staffed maintenace team do the work during third shift like always.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

The incident where the cleat flew off the Columbia and killed a guy was the direct result of wood rot on the ship's railing. Reduced maintenance prevented said rot from being addressed in a timely manner.

I've also heard that the rope that should have been used would have broken before such a large amount of tension was put on it, but was replaced with a cheaper, nylon rope. Can anyone confirm?

 

[alissafalco]

I've also heard that the rope that should have been used would have broken before such a large amount of tension was put on it, but was replaced with a cheaper, nylon rope. Can anyone confirm?

Yes that's true.
http://news.aitkenlaw.com/verdicts-settlements/columbia-incident/

 

[alissafalco]

No one "hates" Disney here. If someone really hated Disney they wouldn't be a member of this forum. Yes, many people are upset, let down, disappointed, and losing faith in Disney, but don't get that confused with hate.

 

[asianway]

There is so many maintenence people that they are tripping over themselves to actually do the work. Basically they are overstaffed.

I thought you said half the maintenance people were goldbricking, sleeping in ride vehicles, and using the union as a shield from any accountability? Maybe that was someone else...

 

[devoy1701]

I thought you said half the maintenance people were goldbricking, sleeping in ride vehicles, and using the union as a shield from any accountability? Maybe that was someone else...

I remember that comment well. Perhaps they are overstaffed, but not by the right people? I shall leave my feelinga of unions at that.

 

[flynnibus]

The BTMRR accident was caused by a broken connector bar on the front car. This should have been caught during the overnight maintenance inspection, but the outside contractors failed to do a full inspection. I have the full report, but not in front of me. I seem to recall one worker signing off on an inspection that wasn't done.

Lee, I have to correct you on this topic. You've mentioned a few things about the DL incidents that are in direct contradiction with the CalOSHA findings.

The connector bar broke in the accident - not prior. The retaining bolts were not secured as they were supposed to be on the train, which lead to the upstop assembly coming off, and ultimately part of the axle assembly dropping down and colliding with infrastructure in the track (brake blocks) which ultimately caused the derailment.

The supervisor who signed off on the attraction that day was actually a Disney employee, not a contractor - tho the report did find that Disney allowed outside contractors to sign off on the work of other contractors.

For people interested in reading the state's report.. a copy is here
http://www.scribd.com/doc/3365918/Big-Thunder-Mountain-Railroad-Accident-Investigation-Report

There is another site that actually has all the photos after the accident as well.. but I don't have that link handy. It's pretty amazing actually (no gore photos)

The incident where the cleat flew off the Columbia and killed a guy was the direct result of wood rot on the ship's railing. Reduced maintenance prevented said rot from being addressed in a timely manner.

Here the instigating factor was not material failure at the cleat - but rather the operation of the ship while docking. Disney was not cited for lack of upkeep on the cleat - but rather the operation and training (lack of). http://www.dir.ca.gov/dirnews/1999/IR99-02.html

I've heard published reports about the ropes used as well (from David K.) but I do not recall reports about the cleat's upkeep being the contributing cause, nor does that gel with CalOSHA's own citings.

Edit: I see the source of both the rope and wood rot angles appear to be from the lawsuit that followed the accident.

 

[COProgressFan]

There is so many maintenence people that they are tripping over themselves to actually do the work. Basically they are overstaffed.

So why isn't the work getting done then? Honest question.

 

[jensenrick]

It's already happened, 2 CM's at DAK already killed by the same ride. One in ops and other in maintenance and it was due to not having enough people to staff the ride safely. And the ride is still running because they need those hourly rider counts and ride capacity for DAK.

I don't understand this. You say this ride at DAK does not have enough staff to run safely, and two people have died because of it. So why hasn't this ride been shut down? I know Disney supposedly has an army of robot sharks for lawyers, but they still have to follow the basic workplace safety laws in this country, right? Or have they increased staffing on said ride to safe levels?

 

[Lee]

Lee, I have to correct you on this topic. You've mentioned a few things about the DL incidents that are in direct contradiction with the CalOSHA.

Not surprising at all. As I said, I didn't have the report in front of me and was going off of memory.
I was close, though.