Magic Kingdom 50th Anniversary Plans

[Kman101]

I agree. Except for finding more space for the overcrowded Hub (see my sig for the fireworks viewing expansion); all expansion should be in the other three parks until they can lure enough people from MK.

Agreed.

The problem with that, though, is the stagnation that occurred. They now have to play catch up, which is what New Fantasyland was. And the hub re-do. I think the new hub is actually nice, I just want more shade.

It was a start for DHS with what they're getting. Epcot seems next. They've already addressed some issues with AK. So that circles back around to MK, which Tomorrowland is seemingly being addressed. The real problem lies in expanding Frontierland and Adventureland. Both are in need of expanding walking space and new things to do.

 

[MrConbon]

Because you want a Minecraft Land or Fornite Land, one of which is already dead in the minds of children and one which will likely end like the game it “borrowed” it’s mechanics from, dead.

No. The last thing I want in Disney World is a Fortnite Land. The point was that the large, large majority of children have no interest in TSI. It’s an outdated property. You can claim 20,000 leagues under the sea was a beloved novel too yet Disney had no problem getting rid of that.

 

[Kman101]

I think you're forgetting the other 3 incredibly under-developed parks with huge amounts of expansion pads, in dire new of increased capacity.

Like I said, no rational reason to demo TSI before those pads at all parks have been used.

Key word here is "rational"

No one's really pushing for it, we just know how they operate.

It should go without saying expansion pads get used first. Even so, they'd have to circle back around to TSI eventually, so they'll likely save the expansion pads and go there. But I don't know that for sure, just observation based on how they do things. I'm all for using expansion pads but you also can't use up every amount of free space you have either. There needs to be a balance.

Adventureland and Frontierland both need *expansions*.

I think to expand to behind TSI, they'd have to touch it and do something there.

 

[Kman101]

No. The last thing I want in Disney World is a Fortnite Land. The point was that the large, large majority of children have no interest in TSI. It’s an outdated property. You can claim 20,000 leagues under the sea was a beloved novel too yet Disney had no problem getting rid of that.

Not really. 20,000 Leagues had park politics in play. It has nothing to do with it's name.

I see full rafts going to TSI even on a slow day (but could also be a symptom of the park needing more to do, yes even the MK needs a LOT more). Kids enjoy it. Have you read Tom Sawyer? Do you have kids? Have you read it to them? It's not outdated, it's called timeless. Just because it doesn't have a blockbuster film in the theaters we think things are "outdated". They only become outdated if we let them become outdated.

No reason people couldn't appreciate the classic movies in GMR but instead they'd just grip and call it dated and say no one cared.

Well I cared as a kid. Why can't kids now? Why do parents deem things boring when in reality their kids probably disagree ... I'm sure many kids turn their nose up at TSI. But I don't blame the kids.

I don't like blanket statements like that thrown out. You can't speak for everyone. Like everything, some aren't interested. It doesn't speak for everyone. Just because you're not interested and *you* seem to find it outdated ... I'd venture that's a minority opinion. Not saying you aren't entitled to that opinion, I just disagree it's not popular. And said popularity could have nothing to do with the name "Tom Sawyer". It's still a fun area to get away. Yes I want expansion too but at what cost? Another land filled to the brim with people because it features one massive e-ticket and nothing else?

 

[MisterPenguin]

I see full rafts going to TSI even on a slow day

TSI and the Riverboat have at their max a THRC of 2,300 pph.

But the whole RoA complex is 12.1 acres (slightly larger than TSL). You can fit 6 Haunted Mansions in that space. Let's call it just 4 HMs, which would give that space a THRC of 12,000 pph.

I know people have a soft spot for TSI and RoA. But if they make a big deal about the low capacity of new rides and ignore this ultra-low capacity area... it's not being consistent.

 

[Kman101]

TSI and the Riverboat have at their max a THRC of 2,300 pph.

But the whole RoA complex is 12.1 acres (slightly larger than TSL). You can fit 6 Haunted Mansions in that space. Let's call it just 4 HMs, which would give that space a THRC of 12,000 pph.

I know people have a soft spot for TSI and RoA. But if they make a big deal about the low capacity of new rides and ignore this ultra-low capacity area... it's not being consistent.

I see your point, lol. A good perspective on it I wasn't considering.

I guess it's just having a soft spot. It can hold a lot, should they choose to put a lot there.

 

[ThemeParkTraveller]

The largest expansion pad can't be adequately accessed without doing something with the space between HM and BTM, which is filled with RoA and TSI.

View attachment 302031

Is there a legend to clarify what the different colors mean? I'm intrigued why the rectangular plot above Fantasyland is not marked for expansion.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Wouldn't getting rid of the RoA seriously muck with the theming of that portion of Frontierland? You're supposed to be walking along the Mississippi "through the years". Removing that would mean half of the theming is gone.

This is all rather moot, in my book, as there are three other parks that need more to do before pouring more money into MK.

 

[Kman101]

I’m 19. Took honors and AP classes all throughout high school and college. We have never once talked about Mark Twain. It’s an outdated property that needs a refurb.

That's sad. What are they teaching you kids now? I'm only in my 30s and I'm so much more aware of "the old" than most people younger than me. I find that sad. Instead of decrying it outdated, maybe read it and learn about him? Sorry you have that viewpoint.

 

[Kman101]

Wouldn't getting rid of the RoA seriously muck with the theming of that portion of Frontierland? You're supposed to be walking along the Mississippi "through the years". Removing that would mean half of the theming is gone.

This is all rather moot, in my book, as there are three other parks that need more to do before pouring more money into MK.

I'm sure a body of water would still exist (but that's just an assumption!).

To be fair, the MK still needs money poured into it as much as the other three parks need more. But in an ideal world, MK would be totally up to par, capacity wise so they COULD focus on the other three. But that's what happens when you stagnate for over a decade.

 

[HauntedPirate]

I'm sure a body of water would still exist (but that's just an assumption!).

To be fair, the MK still needs money poured into it as much as the other three parks need more. But in an ideal world, MK would be totally up to par, capacity wise so they COULD focus on the other three. But that's what happens when you stagnate for over a decade.

Keeping a body of water to maintain the theming would be OK.

MK definitely needs more investment, but it needs to be done smartly and properly. I question whether or not Tron fits either categorization. Not that Tron is bad - It's a net-new addition, to a land that has been put on the back burner for 20 years, but it will draw even more people to MK for a 2 minute ride at a time when more people is what it doesn't need. MK needs a people-eater or two (or three), much like Epcot and DHS do. Sadly, the people-eaters of yesteryear seem to be overlooked today in lieu of short rides with immense queues.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Is there a legend to clarify what the different colors mean? I'm intrigued why the rectangular plot above Fantasyland is not marked for expansion.

The area north of FL is difficult. If you were standing there and looked at the backside of Ariel's and Belle's domain, you'd see two story high backsides of building. That's because the utilidors are at ground level, the guests are one story off the ground, and the buildings go another story higher. Access to that area is almost completely cut off. You'd have to find ingenious ways to get the never-ending delivery trucks access to the utilidors. And part of that are is marked as unsuitable to build because it's in a flood plain. See here.

Here's what that backside looks like:

So, whatever you build there has to hide all that.

As for the color coding of the expansion pads...

Green are the interior park pads @marni1971 has indicated exist. The orange is a harder-to-get-to but slated-for-next (possibly) pad. The yellow is the obvious easy-to-get-to pads surrounding the MK. The red is pie-in-the-sky that would require a bunch of stuff to make happen, like rerouting canals (blue). And the red column is where the fireworks pad is.

 

[Kman101]

Keeping a body of water to maintain the theming would be OK.

MK definitely needs more investment, but it needs to be done smartly and properly. I question whether or not Tron fits either categorization. Not that Tron is bad - It's a net-new addition, to a land that has been put on the back burner for 20 years, but it will draw even more people to MK for a 2 minute ride at a time when more people is what it doesn't need. MK needs a people-eater or two (or three), much like Epcot and DHS do. Sadly, the people-eaters of yesteryear seem to be overlooked today in lieu of short rides with immense queues.

I'm right there with you. I've felt very torn on TRON. I don't really hate the idea, I just question the timing and I know for a fact it's not "necessary" right now. But I can sort of see the thinking behind it all, with Tomorrowland having badly needed an update. But I don't like how they go about doing things.

MK needs smart investment, I agree. They can't just use up expansion pads. But they can't also rest on their laurels anymore. A solid Adventureland expansion would help a lot more than TRON in Tomorrowland, but if the long run has Adventureland expanding, I can see why they chose TRON now instead of later. There's likely so many factors in play, and I think, oftentimes, logic gets pushed aside.

My fear with a TSI replacement is, like I've said, a Grizzy River Run copy themed to the Wild West and tossed out as some lame "here's your Western River Expedition, now shut up". It wouldn't be the worst in the world but it wouldn't be "worthy" of a replacement, even if GRR is a fantastic rapids ride. (And we have a rapids ride in Asia at AK that could use a re-do anytime now)

 

[rreading]

TSI and the Riverboat have at their max a THRC of 2,300 pph.

But the whole RoA complex is 12.1 acres (slightly larger than TSL). You can fit 6 Haunted Mansions in that space. Let's call it just 4 HMs, which would give that space a THRC of 12,000 pph.

I know people have a soft spot for TSI and RoA. But if they make a big deal about the low capacity of new rides and ignore this ultra-low capacity area... it's not being consistent.

An aspect of the PPH calculation (and I certainly understand believe that you know this) is that unless you build a ride which occupies people for some time, then rides like the Tron coaster put them through and spit them out. They may have enjoyed one more ride per day, but it took 5min without a wait. The only way that the Tron coaster keeps people out of the MK circulation is by their waiting in line, which doesn't make for an enjoyable day with kids.

This is why I mourn the loss of the Main Street Theater, and am not excited (except it will be fun!) about the addition of the Tron coaster. And while maybe TSI is not high capacity, it adds enjoyment to the park for all of its attendees, even if they don't take the ferry across.

Plus, my kids and I love it.

 

[Kman101]

An aspect of the PPH calculation (and I certainly understand believe that you know this) is that unless you build a ride which occupies people for some time, then rides like the Tron coaster put them through and spit them out. They may have enjoyed one more ride per day, but it took 5min without a wait. The only way that the Tron coaster keeps people out of the MK circulation is by their waiting in line, which doesn't make for an enjoyable day with kids.

This is why I mourn the loss of the Main Street Theater, and am not excited (except it will be fun!) about the addition of the Tron coaster. And while maybe TSI is not high capacity, it adds enjoyment to the park for all of its attendees, even if they don't take the ferry across.

Plus, my kids and I love it.

But it's not taught so it's outdated. How can you love it?

 

[MisterPenguin]

An aspect of the PPH calculation (and I certainly understand believe that you know this) is that unless you build a ride which occupies people for some time, then rides like the Tron coaster put them through and spit them out. They may have enjoyed one more ride per day, but it took 5min without a wait. The only way that the Tron coaster keeps people out of the MK circulation is by their waiting in line, which doesn't make for an enjoyable day with kids.

This is why I mourn the loss of the Main Street Theater, and am not excited (except it will be fun!) about the addition of the Tron coaster. And while maybe TSI is not high capacity, it adds enjoyment to the park for all of its attendees, even if they don't take the ferry across.

Plus, my kids and I love it.

Adding rides allow the people who show up to do more rides. That is if attendance remains the same. That's a simple mathematical fact.

The problem is that more rides are likely to draw in more people. And if a brand new E-Ticket draws in more people than it can go through in one day, then it has only made the overcrowding worse.

And that is a different metric than the feeling of over-crowdedness where you want to pull people off the streets so that infrastructure isn't overwhelmed. If the ride has a long queue and the ride can 'hold' lots of people, then it pulls them 'off the streets' and the park feels less crowded. That is, until the fireworks show, and then all the extra people that showed up for the new ride try to pack themselves into an already-full Hub.

 

[Dave Z]

TSI takes up SO much space. It’s a fine little quiet park but no kind has any idea who Tom Sawyer is and the land is just a basic island with some crappy caves. So much more could be done with it. There’s tons of other quiet spots like the Main Street train station, the walkway between Tomorrowland and fantasyland, and the rocking chairs by Big Thunder. TSI is straight garbage and it’s laughable that you need to take a boat to get there.

Your opinion only, last trip these places were pack!

 

[Sharon&Susan]

No. The last thing I want in Disney World is a Fortnite Land. The point was that the large, large majority of children have no interest in TSI. It’s an outdated property. You can claim 20,000 leagues under the sea was a beloved novel too yet Disney had no problem getting rid of that.

Then what were you trying to say, that Disney should only do topics that kidsare talking about? I took away from your post that Disney should make areas based on what the kids are talking about. IPs are useless in the long term anyway. More people go on the Haunted Mansion at DL than Pooh. People are willing to wait in 30 minute lines for Toad, but the Little Mermaid is lucky to have 100 people board it in 30 minutes.

 

[Rlandrigan]

TSI and the Riverboat have at their max a THRC of 2,300 pph.

But the whole RoA complex is 12.1 acres (slightly larger than TSL). You can fit 6 Haunted Mansions in that space. Let's call it just 4 HMs, which would give that space a THRC of 12,000 pph.

I know people have a soft spot for TSI and RoA. But if they make a big deal about the low capacity of new rides and ignore this ultra-low capacity area... it's not being consistent.

I'm all in favor of inefficiency - that's honestly the best thing about TSI, that it IS inefficient. I wish they would open up Aunt Polly's and make that a real rest spot - but the Fort, the Cave, and the bridge are unique. DCA's Redwood Creek is also magic in that way, forget the rides, MK _needs_ TSI.

 

[Kman101]

It's sort of ironic when you think about it that we still have Tom Sawyer Island and Swiss Family Treehouse when Disneyland has poor man's Pirate's Lair (it's OK, I guess, but not what it could be) and Tarzan (and I like Tarzan).