Magic...it seems to be slipping...

DrummerAlly

Well-Known Member
I don't know if CMs talking about what they're doing after their shift would really bother me. If they seemed completely bored and unengaged then that could be quite bothersome, but I don't see anything wrong with talking to their coworkers like that during downtime.

If it were during down time it wouldn't bother me either, but this happened to us twice; once while checking restraints at space mountain and once while loading and unloading at splash mountain. Not only is it bad show, the lack of attention being paid to guests could become a safety problem at these rides.
 

devoy1701

Well-Known Member
Using your logic of blaming the highest level person in the organization wouldn't it be Bob Iger?

Meg Crofton is nothing but a pair of words now, just like TDO, walmarting, and "management".

It's nothing more than unoriginal, bandwagon, group think. In a few months everyone will be using some other buzzword that they feel represents everything that is wrong with Disney.

Yes blame can be placed with Bob as well. But the issues with WDW are not effecting the company as a whole. Now if there was an issue with the P&R segment as a whole the blame would lie with Wiess and Ultimately Bob for making a bad decision on who to put in charge of that segment of the business.

But in turms of issues at WDW, Meg is the person to blame. She is charged with leading Walt Disney World and has the highest ranking office of the resort. Just like any other Corporate entity or Business Unit, or Department, or even a retail store, the blame for problems with the staff and operation lies with the person in charge whether they had any direct participation in the decisions or not, whether they even know about it or not! (Though for Meg not to be aware of some of these issues is just absurd at this point.) As Merlin said, her inaction to make changes speaks just as loudly as any action made by her collegues.

It's not bandwagoning. It would be ridiculous to try to point fingers at every Manager and VP directly involved with making these decisions. And no matter how you slice it, Meg paved the way to allow these people to make these decisions.
 

Scuttle

Well-Known Member
The lights that outline the rooftops of the Grand Floridian are pretty Iconic to the resort. Without them the place looks eriely dark and spooky. :lookaroun And it looks pretty bad when some strands are working and others are not, or one or two buildings are lit up while the bulk are not. I think this one falls into the valid complaint box, as well as the squared areas of lights that Scuttle mentions that TDO has decided to start turning off at a certain time (though he makes it sound like they might be perminently turned off). These have been iconic to the Contemp since Day 1 and I think it's a bad decision to decide to not turn them on anymore.

The contemporary lights are rows of small light bulbs. I think it's like 6 by 6, but I'm not sure. Either way those small light bulbs are out and on some of the squares there were more than half the lights out. Now these lights you have to see up close because far away they look pretty normal, but when you get close I assure you that you'll notice it. In fact when me and my girlfriend were waiting on a boat to take us to FW I took some time to look and I was shocked to find that not ONE square light set had all of it's bulbs on! As to the other issue of TDO turning the lights off early, that is also true. When I was there staying at the Poly they were out by 10 every night.
 

Florida

New Member
I was in WDW from July 6 - 15 and didn't encounter any rude CMs. In fact, i had a great time.

However, my complaint would be with the RUDE guests. The trash thrown on the ground in the queues is inexcusable. Big Thunder Mountain's queue was so bad you were wading through trash. For this I blame tourists not CMs.

I was also in WDW on those dates and I sure did notice some rude CMs. Don't get me wrong 90% of them were very happy and friendly people, but some were just really rude especially at the parades and on the Parking lot trams!

Some of the guests are extremely rude and need to take it easy! It's chaos at the parades with some guests and "their" space. I don't think Disney should allow people to set down blankets as if they're marking their territory!

But I could see the cut backs this year and something really needs to be done about it!
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
Using your logic of blaming the highest level person in the organization wouldn't it be Bob Iger?

Meg Crofton is nothing but a pair of words now, just like TDO, walmarting, and "management".

It's nothing more than unoriginal, bandwagon, group think. In a few months everyone will be using some other buzzword that they feel represents everything that is wrong with Disney.

Again, your comment would make sense if it were actually some broad term like blaming Disney in its entirety (or little individuals that have little effect on the parks). But it's not, Meg isn't a buzzword, she's the actual live person who is very much responsible for the quality issues with WDW. As overseer of every decision there, she holds the real power to make or break the quality there. And thus far under her supervision, the WDW parks and resorts have witnessed a notable drop in overall quality in terms of management, cast member performance, cutbacks in resort guest benefits (and park goer benefits), etc.

The blame on her has always been in effect since quality started dropping under her supervision. Decisions, whether she did these things by saying no to stuff, or just ignoring everything and taking a hands off approach, are still her authority. She can choose to make decisions, or approve/disapprove decisions presented to her. Thus far, she has either just ignored things and let them degrade further or actually personally declined necessary decisions such as upkeep, proper cast member training, etc.

Bob Iger has some blame definitely (and Al Weiss), especially considering that Iger and Staggs promoted her to a higher position. Though as Devoy said, Disneyland isn't suffering from the same sort of maintenance issues and problems with rude cast members as WDW. It's not the entire P&R that is having serious issues, just WDW in the US. So the blame is definitely centered on Meg Crofton, with good reason as she is the highest official specifically assigned to oversee WDW only.

I too noticed the Grand Floridian lights being out. Visited in both December and around March of this year. It was highly distracting, enough to make more than just myself notice (someone else was talking about it as we were on the ferry). My mother was the first to say it aloud, i had been thinking it beforehand but didn't say anything aloud. Someone else behind us agreed with her and stated that it looked tacky and cheap. Not just a couple of lights, a huge amount of them were burned out. It did look quite tacky and distracting. Shame to see the usual beauty of the resort taken down a notch and looking rather dark and sad. It's hard to ignore it unless you constantly look away or down and refuse to acknowledge the resort. Broken lightbulbs are usually not something to get upset about if there are just a couple, but there's large quantities out. Sounds like they're still not replaced either. Just a couple wouldn't be likely to distract you, but the large amounts just get impossible to ignore.
 

ScorpionX

Well-Known Member
As for the thread, it's very, very rare when I've seen a rude CM. The worst was waiting an hour for a pizza at the boardwalk and the manager popping his head out and saying, "Oh, I forgot about you." And then one of the CM's came out and lit up a cigarette and said, "Dude, you haven't got your pizza yet? That's *effed* up." :lol:
Although that's *effin'* funny, Walt wouldn't have approved of it at all.
 

Crockett

Banned
Wow - The country is going through a heat wave. It is very hot and if you add to the mix tens of thousands of irritable over heated people in a crowded park you are sure to get some bad attitudes. I know here in Georgia we have broken a record of 56 consecutive days over the 90 with most of those hitting around 96 before any heat indices are added. Guess what... it's not just WDW. People are hot and cranky everywhere. It's been a long hot summer and we are all ready for some relief.

I say cut CMs and everyone a little slack. I agree rudeness is just not acceptable... but I can understand how it might happen.
^Agree with this.
Up where we live, it is easily noticed how road rage, complaints, and rudness overall are at an influx during the summer months. Not saying this excuses rude behavior, but it certainly is a big factor. Mix this with a lot of the attitude that is thrown at CM's for simply trying to do their job & enhance guest's vacations... yeah, it can get intense. If guests showed the CM's the same courtesy & kindness we've come to expect over the decades, I'm certain there would be a noticable difference.
 

jakeman

Well-Known Member
It's not bandwagoning. It would be ridiculous to try to point fingers at every Manager and VP directly involved with making these decisions. And no matter how you slice it, Meg paved the way to allow these people to make these decisions.
No it's ridiculous to pick out one person and put the responsibility of a 60,000 person workforce on them without at least making an attempt to see where there is an issue within the whole structure.

If I screw up at my job, I don't tell my boss, "Well you know, our CEO sucks, what am I supposed to do?" :shrug:

If you are going to be hypercritical of an organization, don't you think that the whole structure from top to bottom should be scrutinized?

Again, your comment would make sense if it were actually some broad term like blaming Disney in its entirety (or little individuals that have little effect on the parks). But it's not, Meg isn't a buzzword, she's the actual live person who is very much responsible for the quality issues with WDW. As overseer of every decision there, she holds the real power to make or break the quality there. And thus far under her supervision, the WDW parks and resorts have witnessed a notable drop in overall quality in terms of management, cast member performance, cutbacks in resort guest benefits (and park goer benefits), etc.
If the internet is to be believed WDW went to crap in the mid-90's, long before Crofton was in charge.

So let's not act like Meg Crofton just isn't a substitution for TDO here. Her recent position change just gave a face to TDO and people are going after that face now.

Look, guys, have your little Crofton-bashing fun all you want. I'm just telling you that from a business standpoint Disney is laughing at you. Nothing will make you loose credit in a argument more than speaking about a topic or a person you know nothing about, and beyond Meg Crofton being the president of Walt Disney World, you have no idea what her job actually entails.

The line between "Lights are out at the Grand Floridian. It affected my enjoyment and makes me less likely to spend money in the future." and "Lights are out at the Grand Floridian. It's Meg Crofton's fault, but I'll be back next year." is pretty clear.
 

LudwigVonDrake

Well-Known Member
Ah, the accent lights on the edges of the buildings? Those have been a problem for a while. Maybe not at GF, but at the Boardwalk area I've seen huge sections of them not working for years now.

Those lights were out in July 2010 and they were still out a couple of weeks ago. I have a photo somewhere of the lights in question taken from the boat that goes back and forth from Wilderness Lodge.
 

devoy1701

Well-Known Member
No it's ridiculous to pick out one person and put the responsibility of a 60,000 person workforce on them without at least making an attempt to see where there is an issue within the whole structure.

If I screw up at my job, I don't tell my boss, "Well you know, our CEO sucks, what am I supposed to do?" :shrug:

If you are going to be hypercritical of an organization, don't you think that the whole structure from top to bottom should be scrutinized?

If the internet is to be believed WDW went to crap in the mid-90's, long before Crofton was in charge.

So let's not act like Meg Crofton just isn't a substitution for TDO here. Her recent position change just gave a face to TDO and people are going after that face now.

Look, guys, have your little Crofton-bashing fun all you want. I'm just telling you that from a business standpoint Disney is laughing at you. Nothing will make you loose credit in a argument more than speaking about a topic or a person you know nothing about, and beyond Meg Crofton being the president of Walt Disney World, you have no idea what her job actually entails.

The line between "Lights are out at the Grand Floridian. It affected my enjoyment and makes me less likely to spend money in the future." and "Lights are out at the Grand Floridian. It's Meg Crofton's fault, but I'll be back next year." is pretty clear.


It is not ridiculous. It's the way business works. The people in charge are also the "fall guy" when things don't go well. It happens in every business there is. If sales guys aren't performing well after a period of time, the VP of sales gets replaced. If products are selling off the shelves, they're going to be looking at replacing the VP of Marketing or Product Development on that one.

If you screw up in your job to where it effects the company, you would be scrutinized as well as those incharge of you and (if it effects the entire company) the executives at the top. That's why you see CEOs take the fall for companies who perform unethically for whatever reason, or get held to the fire when their products are selling or (as we saw with the car companies) when your operation is just performing poorly. There is nothing ridiculous about claiming that Meg should be blamed for the performance and noticable cuts made by the people she provides over. If you don't agree then that is just you not understanding the executive structures of a company.

And we've been blaming Meg loooong before she got this recent promotion. And many of us do have pretty good insight on what her responsibilities are.

Oh...and blaming one person worked wonders for Disneyland.
 

mrsdanalind

Member
Is the magic gone?

So yeah so often people complain about TDO and the way things are run in Orlando and how cheap things sometimes seem...yet others defend Disney to the bitter end.

I visited the Magic Kingdom today...and yes it was a busy summer day, but I have never encountered more 'less magical'...screw it - RUDE cast members in my time. I saw several guests YELLED at instead of politely handling situations. There was a rude attendant on one of the Fantasyland dark rides today that gave me the whole, "yeah yeah get off the ride please" line. My friend even got bumped into by a cast member who wasn't watching where he was going and he just gave us this rude look. All of this is VERY Un-Disneylike.

On top of that, I continuously found trash on the ground in different places throughout the park...and even watched two cast members stroll right by napkins and cup lids on the ground in Tomorrowland.

Yes, the rocks are back and the tarp is gone on Big Thunder Mountain...yay...but the rocks aren't moving. In Splash I noticed a number of Brer Foxes that didn't move their mouths...and the guitar playing rooster in the big finale scene of the ride was hunched over his guitar. In numerous places in Tomorrowland, as well as on Crystal Palace, I noticed many lights out. What's up with maintenence?

Now, there are a number of places where people are still putting on their best smiles and being polite, as well as construction walls and fresh paint going up alot more recently it seems...but there are still very many glaring issues...and it saddens me to see the MK in this state while the Disneyland resort seems to be shining bright and running the way it should.

Is the Magic truly slipping in Orlando? :(

:brick:If you were so unhappy my question to you is did you do anything about it? Like go to guest services and file a complaint? Are you going to write to The Disney Corporation, ( you can get their corporate address off the disney web site) and let them know? Did you by chance get the names of the cm's that were rude or nasty? If YOU don't tell them they will not change anything. I've written, and have been a cast member I know that the Disney Corporation takes all the complants seriously. Likewise, do you remember to compliment the cm's when they are doing a good job? Do you remember to go to Guest Services and let them know when cast members do the excellent service they have learned? If you complain, then fine, but if you compliment that works well also.::hammer:
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
No it's ridiculous to pick out one person and put the responsibility of a 60,000 person workforce on them without at least making an attempt to see where there is an issue within the whole structure.

If I screw up at my job, I don't tell my boss, "Well you know, our CEO sucks, what am I supposed to do?" :shrug:

If you are going to be hypercritical of an organization, don't you think that the whole structure from top to bottom should be scrutinized?

I'll chime in here to say absolutely the entire structure should be scrutinized and held accountable. But that's also Meg Crofton's job as well, to make sure everyone is doing their job correctly (or to tell them how she thinks they should do their job). Every employee at WDW who is underperforming at their job is partially responsible for contributing to the decline we've seen lately. The thing is, a good head of operations would put a stop to this and either force them back to doing their job or fire them and hire people who are willing to do so. She is also directly responsible for budget approval or disapproval for management projects and other affairs. Basically anything that helps the upkeep of the parks, makes sure cast are properly trained and doing their job, etc are all in her hands. She's the decision maker.

In a well run corporation, if you were performing poorly at your job and could do better, a good boss or CEO would fire you without a second thought. Either that or put you under close observation and threaten to fire you if you don't do your job better. There's a slight chance this may be what Iger and Staggs are actually doing with her, but i doubt it. Probable that they like her work ethic of cutting costs. Which is why a lot of blame should also be placed on them as well, another couple of people letting their subordinates wreck something.

If the internet is to be believed WDW went to crap in the mid-90's, long before Crofton was in charge.

So let's not act like Meg Crofton just isn't a substitution for TDO here. Her recent position change just gave a face to TDO and people are going after that face now.

Look, guys, have your little Crofton-bashing fun all you want. I'm just telling you that from a business standpoint Disney is laughing at you. Nothing will make you loose credit in a argument more than speaking about a topic or a person you know nothing about, and beyond Meg Crofton being the president of Walt Disney World, you have no idea what her job actually entails.

The line between "Lights are out at the Grand Floridian. It affected my enjoyment and makes me less likely to spend money in the future." and "Lights are out at the Grand Floridian. It's Meg Crofton's fault, but I'll be back next year." is pretty clear.
Yeah, everyone here should know that the decline began in the mid to late 90's. I was there personally and saw some of the beginning of it. Responsibility of that was in the hands of the people in charge at that time. Under her rule however, Crofton has done nothing but continued if not escalated the issues that were already present before her. At the very least, she has done almost nothing to help fix the problems she inherited (which in turn, only got worse with lax attention). Ranting about people long gone would be pointless, but calling out those presently in charge is at least time relevant to the present situation.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the heads of the company are laughing, or perhaps indifferent. And likely many people will continue to go for quite some time at least (unless things get so bad that more people actually get hurt or killed due to mismanagement mistakes). That's the case with a majority of large corporations, they don't listen to their customers unless their wallets or true reputation as a company are presented a danger, no matter what anyone says on an internet forum. BTW, i do in fact know what Meg Crofton's job as president of WDW entails. You seem not to, despite being told in every post response what it does entail. She is at the highest position of the WDW parks only, and makes all management decisions whether they be approvals or disapprovals. In essence, she's responsible for deciding how every aspect of how the park is run (including the people within it).

If you wished to know how i tick on the situation (whether you do or not, here it is)- I'm giving Mrs Crofton a little over a year and a half to prove to me that with a new vote of confidence from Iger and Staggs (and perhaps with a little more supervision and motivation), she can clean stuff up and get her act together. It's a personal audit. I'm presently an annual pass holder. I intend to renew when my next time to do so is here once more, but if she continues to undermanage the parks, i am very likely going to decline to renew my pass. Assuming she makes a decent attempt to step things up, i'll likely continue my pass in the near future (as long as she continues to strive for quality). We shall see. Obviously my one vote won't make a difference to Disney, but as i do genuinely care about quality, i myself may not wish to spend money there anymore. It all depends on how well she does. A sort of pros vs cons, the more pros than cons there are, the more likely i am to continue renewing and going. Satisfied?

Devoy is right as well. For Disneyland, all it took was a target of specific heads of the parks and things turned around for the better (even if the fans didn't make any difference, Disney removing and replacing the presidents of that park ended up bringing Disneyland back up to par). The source and highest part of the problem is always the place to start, change will follow with the proper leadership. Instead of making complaints to all the smaller people who don't have any authority, you go to the leader and make changes there. The president has the power to change almost anything they like in terms of how parks are run (for better or worse). Blame has been on Meg for quite a long time, i don't know how you got that it was new (unless you've not been paying attention to any criticism for the past several years since she was brought in).
 

Lee

Adventurer
Lately, all I read is, this is broken, this is not being fixed, How dare Disney slack like this.
Absolutely. This is Disney. They are not allowed to slack. Not at all. Especially when they are charging nearly $100 a day for a ticket.

You know, it makes it me wonder who really changed, the parks or the fans holding an incredible standard that no one not even Disney can reach for. Just my two cents.
Not one single person is holding them to a standard that they can't reach.
I, and others, hold them to the standards that they set for themselves throughout the history of Disney parks.
They have, in many ways, fallen from that standard and it needs to be pointed out. To ignore it is to accept it, and that is not an option.

I'll once again use the analogy of being a parent (not that I am one...).
You hold your kid to a standard, be it in behavior, schoolwork, or whatever. If they fall from that standard, you point it out and hold them accountable. Not pointing it out, and not attempting to encourage them to rectify the situation is the same as condoning it.

Ah, the accent lights on the edges of the buildings? Those have been a problem for a while. Maybe not at GF, but at the Boardwalk area I've seen huge sections of them not working for years now.
And how on earth is that acceptable? No excuse for that at all.

Using your logic of blaming the highest level person in the organization wouldn't it be Bob Iger?

Meg Crofton is nothing but a pair of words now, just like TDO, walmarting, and "management".

It's nothing more than unoriginal, bandwagon, group think. In a few months everyone will be using some other buzzword that they feel represents everything that is wrong with Disney.
No. Just no. The buck has to stop somewhere. Certainly, Meg is not personally responsible for changing lightbulbs or picking up trash. However she is ultimately responsible for the overall upkeep and performance of her product, the resort.
Sure, we could just as easily name Phil Holmes or Danny Cockrell, but in reality I think that their boss makes an equally or more appropriate target.

I'm curious...where would you place blame?

No it's ridiculous to pick out one person and put the responsibility of a 60,000 person workforce on them without at least making an attempt to see where there is an issue within the whole structure.
Where do you see the issue within the structure?

If I screw up at my job, I don't tell my boss, "Well you know, our CEO sucks, what am I supposed to do?" :shrug:

If you are going to be hypercritical of an organization, don't you think that the whole structure from top to bottom should be scrutinized?
Absolutely.
If you screw up your job, say at making sure all the bulbs are working, your boss should be seeing to it that you are corrected. If he fails to do that, his boss should come down on him to see why he did not correct you. Ultimately, the responsiblity to make sure the job gets done rests at the top.
 

kashmir

Active Member
As far as the rude CM's are concerned, there's no excuse for rudeness under any circumstances but at the same time I think that I can relate to their situation. I also work in a high stress, (relatively) low paying job and every week my department manager tells me that corporate is "cutting back". The retail store where I work is so short-handed that the store can barely function on a daily basis. Corporate expects the same level of productivity with fewer people in less time since our hours keep getting cut. One of the many problems with this business strategy is that we're unable to properly wait on our customers and our department looks shabby at times. All of this results in losing more and more customers to the competition and the store is in a death spiral. Meanwhile, corporate look only at the bottom line. All of this leads to horrible employee morale and sometimes tempers can flare. The sad thing is that WDW seems to be run in a similar fashion except for the fact that our store doesn't have a turnstile ticking tens of thousands of times a day.
I appreciate your analysis...and it's happening far too often these days to too many companies. I agree with the 'less is going to be more' formula not working... will America learn? I can't do 3 people's jobs for long before exhaustion sets in and productivity becomes null.
 

Disney61

Active Member
We were at all four WDW parks last week. You are spot on about trash on the ground. The amount of trash we observed strewn about on the ground was disturbing. Most of the trash we saw on the ground in the morning was still on the ground late into the evening. There was a noticable lack of janitorial cast members going about sweeping. As for the rides, on BTMRR the oppossom that hangs over the tracks is missing. Pertaining to Splash Mountain, the water was not cascading down the falls on the final drop the Saturday before last (7/16). It was working correctly again on Sunday (7/17). I know it has been hot this summer but it did not seem that the air conditioning on the dark rides, shows, and shops was not as cool as in the past. Oh well, that's what we observed and hopefully TDO can see it too!!!
 

wilkeliza

Well-Known Member
I will admit I didn't not read page two but did read most of page one.

On the topic of rude CMs it seems the ones I have had the worst experience with are the College Program CMs. Don't get me wrong a lot of CPCMs are great Disney loving people who do their job well. However, there are several CPCMs who this is their first "real" job. They also think they are going to come to Disney and perhaps get transfered out of the shops into an attraction job or entertainment job. On my first ever trip to WDW we came across one CPCM who specifically said she thought when they offered her a retail at Mouseworks she could get a transfer once she got here. She was the worst cashier I had ever dealt with who complained to us the entire time about her job because we looked her age. She was so busy hating her job to us that she messed up our transaction and made us end on a sour note in EPCOT.

This is only one transaction I have had with awful CMs. I must off set this by saying most of the CMs I deal with are exceptional and tend to go above and beyond. I have worked in retail and food service for 5 years now so I know you can have bad days but I never complain about my duties to customers no matter how bad my day has been.
 

jakeman

Well-Known Member
No. Just no. The buck has to stop somewhere. Certainly, Meg is not personally responsible for changing lightbulbs or picking up trash. However she is ultimately responsible for the overall upkeep and performance of her product, the resort.
Sure, we could just as easily name Phil Holmes or Danny Cockrell, but in reality I think that their boss makes an equally or more appropriate target.

I'm curious...where would you place blame?
I should be clear, I'm not giving Crofton an out. She should be held accountable, but not solely. Whoever is the primary obstruction to getting work done in the chain of command bears the brunt of the responsibility.

If it is the hourly CM for not reporting it, or if it is the area manager for not pushing for the resources to fix the problem, from there up that is the responsibility.


Where do you see the issue within the structure?
With regards to maintenance, I think I would defer to post by Raven that demonstrates some sort of performance issue at the lower manager/HR level that isn't being dealt with appropriately.

From my time as a CM (granted this was 10 years ago), the lower management structure is unclear. There seemed (to me) to be quiet a bit of bureaucracy, some of it unnecessary.

It was my opinion at the time, and it is mine today, that the whole lower portion of WDW could use a good cleaning and reorganization. While that can be lead from the very top, area managers shouldn't wait.

I don't wait for things to get so bad at my job that the CEO has to step in and tell me to clean it up. If I did, I would be fired.


Absolutely.
If you screw up your job, say at making sure all the bulbs are working, your boss should be seeing to it that you are corrected. If he fails to do that, his boss should come down on him to see why he did not correct you. Ultimately, the responsiblity to make sure the job gets done rests at the top.
I think the base of what we are saying is in agreement.

It's from the point of failure upwards and in many cases at Disney it appears that the point of failure is much lower than Meg Crofton.

My point is the "Blame Meg Crofton" chant probably means little to nothing to Disney in general and makes a valid point dismissible as a typical fanboy rant.

She has her share of the responsibility, but naming only her when it appears there are issues in some cases all the way down to the CM level, is, in my opinion, counter productive.
 

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