Magic Band Accessories

Tim_4

Well-Known Member
It's either choosing an experience of non-participation, that will be different than the experience of non-participation today.
That's the crux of it, really. It comes down to whether you believe non-participation will look significantly different in the future state. I don't believe it will. Good job boiling it down to its essence. If we disagree on that point, there's no agreement going forward because that's the most fundamental argument on which the FP+ premise is built.
 

bubbles1812

Well-Known Member
Rides will not fill up like restaurants do. The most recent Unofficial Guide in my home (2010) estimates that Big Thunder can handle 100 guests in 2 1/2 minutes. That's 40 per minute, 2,400 per hour, 28,800 in a 12-hour park day. How many guests should we assume Le Cellier can handle in a day? I have no idea what that number is, but compare it to tens of thousands of guests on a high-capacity attraction and it's not even close.
It has already been established that there will be a limited number of FPs given out. And they run out, even now. Sometimes quite fast. That's wonderful you know the ride capacity of Big Thunder, but again, limited number of FPs. And I'm sure there will be a set limit for those that can be reserved online in advance. If they didnt, that would be quite a disaster when everyone wants the same rides. It's logic.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
That's the crux of it, really. It comes down to whether you believe non-participation will look significantly different in the future state. I don't believe it will. Good job boiling it down to its essence. If we disagree on that point, there's no agreement going forward because that's the most fundamental argument on which the FP+ premise is built.
I don't even think its a difference we will see anytime soon but, at the same time, one we are seeing right now. This is a crowd management system being deployed in a place that has for years mismanaged crowd control and capacity. It's only possible to shift crowds around so long as 1) people behave according and 2) there is someplace to shift people.

It has already been established that there will be a limited number of FPs given out. And they run out, even now. Sometimes quite fast. That's wonderful you know the ride capacity of Big Thunder, but again, limited number of FPs. And I'm sure there will be a set limit for those that can be reserved online in advance. If they didnt, that would be quite a disaster when everyone wants the same rides. It's logic.
That's part of why there have been the groupings and definitely a way in which the experience will be impacted. There are virtually no "either or" choices with the current system.
 

Tim_4

Well-Known Member
It has already been established that there will be a limited number of FPs given out. And they run out, even now. Sometimes quite fast. That's wonderful you know the ride capacity of Big Thunder, but again, limited number of FPs. And I'm sure there will be a set limit for those that can be reserved online in advance. If they didnt, that would be quite a disaster when everyone wants the same rides. It's logic.
Fine. Let's say they plan 25% of capacity to be for Fastpass guests. 28,000 guests who can ride Big Thunder in a day gives you 7,000 Big Thunder Fastpasses for that day. Still way more than the number of guests at a given restaurant. Not to mention that there are more attractions than restaurants and that attraction demand is spread throughout the day, not clumped up around "normal" breakfast, lunch, and dinner times.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
If you can't get a TSMM reservation 60 days out, then you're going to have to rush at 9am anyway.
If you want to ride TSMM more than once in the day, then you're going to have to rush at 9am anyway.
If you want to be able to ride Soarin' and Test Track, then you're going to have to rush to one of them at 9am anyway.
If you want to be able to ride Soarin' and Test Track more than once in the day, then you're going to have to rush at 9am anyway.

If you don't want to rush there at 9am, are people in certain countries where the time difference will be at a certain point going to have to set their alarms for the middle of the night to be able to reserve their TSMM Fastpass? Are people going to have to take days off work in order to do this? Mind you, I guess people will already be doing this for their ADRs...

What happens to all that free time? You aren't getting any extra free time, you're just moving the inconvenience...

I am (was?) the Fastpass runner for my party, I didn't mind doing it. Would I mind it if I would have to get up at 3am in order to get one?
What is the advantage of having that reservation available to you 60 days out vs. upon check in at your resort? If they want to charge for it, just do it - don't sugar coat it, don't delay it just do it.

If they don't want to charge for it but they want to improve the guest experience, here's a solution:
  • Resort and DVC guests can make Fastpass+ reservations upon check in
  • Annual Passholders can make Fastpass+ reservations one day in advance if they're staying/living off property and this will be limited to a set number of advanced reservations per quarter or year.
  • 25% of an attraction's daily Fastpass availability will be available in advance for all Fastpass+ attractions. For parades and fireworks, 100% of capacity can eb made available in advance.
  • Advanced reservations for Fastpass+ will be limited to one per day.
  • Day of Fastpasses will be distributed for all necessary attractions at a rate similar to the current distribution policies. This can be done via smart phone or through in park kiosks.
  • If you haven't made an advanced reservation for that day and you are entitled you can make an additional Fastpass reservation day of for any eligible Fastpass+ attraction, including those that wouldn't necessarily need regular Fastpass day of.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
It has already been established that there will be a limited number of FPs given out. And they run out, even now. Sometimes quite fast. That's wonderful you know the ride capacity of Big Thunder, but again, limited number of FPs. And I'm sure there will be a set limit for those that can be reserved online in advance. If they didnt, that would be quite a disaster when everyone wants the same rides. It's logic.
A fix for this can be building new high demand attractions to spread the demand from existing attractions. I don't doubt for a second that if two additional D/E tickets are added to DHS that it will help the demand at Toy Story Mania.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Fine. Let's say they plan 25% of capacity to be for Fastpass guests. 28,000 guests who can ride Big Thunder in a day gives you 7,000 Big Thunder Fastpasses for that day. Still way more than the number of guests at a given restaurant. Not to mention that there are more attractions than restaurants and that attraction demand is spread throughout the day, not clumped up around "normal" breakfast, lunch, and dinner times.
Fastpass distribution is in the 60% range of an attractions capacity if I'm not mistaken.
 

bubbles1812

Well-Known Member
Fine. Let's say they plan 25% of capacity to be for Fastpass guests. 28,000 guests who can ride Big Thunder in a day gives you 7,000 Big Thunder Fastpasses for that day. Still way more than the number of guests at a given restaurant. Not to mention that there are more attractions than restaurants and that attraction demand is spread throughout the day, not clumped up around "normal" breakfast, lunch, and dinner times.
I do get your point. I'm not saying you don't have a legitimate point about the rides vs restaurants. But the fact remains that there will be a limited number that will be able to reserved online. And chances are, people will experience some of the same frustrations they do with ADRs as they do with the rides. The most popular rides aren't going to change. What will change is people's ability to ride the rides the actually want to. You can't tell me people won't be frustrated when they go online at whatever ridiculous time they have to and still find that they can't get a FP for Splash Mountain? That they can't get FPs for the "big rides" which actually need but are instead forced to choose attractions that won't? I love the Haunted Mansion, but I know I don't need a FP for it. But instead I will be forced to choose that or something like that because either the FPs able to be reserved online are gone or because they aren't in a particular group? An you are telling me this is going to make people happy? Please.
 

Tim_4

Well-Known Member
What is the advantage of having that reservation available to you 60 days out vs. upon check in at your resort?
Logistics. You just can't process that many people fast enough. Let's say you have 500 check-ins at a resort on a given Saturday or Sunday. Six day visit times 500 check-ins times three Fastpasses per day is 9,000 Fastpass requests for the resort staff to process with guests who don't even know what they want. A six-night guest would be booking 18 Fastpasses. Even if they could pick one Fastpass per minute, which is VERY fast for a non-Disney-expert guest, that's a 20-minute interaction standing at a counter with the kids nagging you that they want to go to the pool. It also requires every check-in CM to be an expert on EVERY attraction. A nice thought, but not gonna happen. They'd have to quadruple the size of every resort lobby and hire dozens of concierges for each location. If the guest does this themselves from their home computer, they have Disney's literature and Google at their fingertips to research to their heart's content, or they can click through and pick random stuff in about five minutes if they're so inclined.

If they want to charge for it, just do it - don't sugar coat it, don't delay it just do it.
I understand your suspicion but it's not gonna happen. There are NO plans to charge for FP+. The only upcharges involved will be PhotoPass-type products and services and the same type of VIP packages you can pay for already.

If they don't want to charge for it but they want to improve the guest experience, here's a solution:
  • Resort and DVC guests can make Fastpass+ reservations upon check in
  • Annual Passholders can make Fastpass+ reservations one day in advance if they're staying/living off property and this will be limited to a set number of advanced reservations per quarter or year.
  • 25% of an attraction's daily Fastpass availability will be available in advance for all Fastpass+ attractions. For parades and fireworks, 100% of capacity can eb made available in advance.
  • Advanced reservations for Fastpass+ will be limited to one per day.
  • Day of Fastpasses will be distributed for all necessary attractions at a rate similar to the current distribution policies. This can be done via smart phone or through in park kiosks.
  • If you haven't made an advanced reservation for that day and you are entitled you can make an additional Fastpass reservation day of for any eligible Fastpass+ attraction, including those that wouldn't necessarily need regular Fastpass day of.
Honestly, that's not too far off from FP+ anyways, with the exception of the logistics issue I highlighted initially.
 

Tim_4

Well-Known Member
I do get your point. I'm not saying you don't have a legitimate point about the rides vs restaurants. But the fact remains that there will be a limited number that will be able to reserved online. And chances are, people will experience some of the same frustrations they do with ADRs as they do with the rides. The most popular rides aren't going to change. What will change is people's ability to ride the rides the actually want to. You can't tell me people won't be frustrated when they go online at whatever ridiculous time they have to and still find that they can't get a FP for Splash Mountain? That they can't get FPs for the "big rides" which actually need but are instead forced to choose attractions that won't? I love the Haunted Mansion, but I know I don't need a FP for it. But instead I will be forced to choose that or something like that because either the FPs able to be reserved online are gone or because they aren't in a particular group? An you are telling me this is going to make people happy? Please.
If the limits are as strict as you suggest, standby lines should be delightfully short, no?
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Logistics. You just can't process that many people fast enough. Let's say you have 500 check-ins at a resort on a given Saturday or Sunday. Six day visit times 500 check-ins times three Fastpasses per day is 9,000 Fastpass requests for the resort staff to process with guests who don't even know what they want. A six-night guest would be booking 18 Fastpasses. Even if they could pick one Fastpass per minute, which is VERY fast for a non-Disney-expert guest, that's a 20-minute interaction standing at a counter with the kids nagging you that they want to go to the pool. It also requires every check-in CM to be an expert on EVERY attraction. A nice thought, but not gonna happen. They'd have to quadruple the size of every resort lobby and hire dozens of concierges for each location. If the guest does this themselves from their home computer, they have Disney's literature and Google at their fingertips to research to their heart's content, or they can click through and pick random stuff in about five minutes if they're so inclined.
They want people to do this on their phone or online. Why do we need a cast member for this?

Honestly, that's not too far off from FP+ anyways, with the exception of the logistics issue I highlighted initially.
Except it's eliminating the current usage. I would much rather have 1 advanced Fastpass+ reservation as well as current access to day of Fastpasses. That still allows for a level of spontaneity, and by allowing access without back tracking through the park is also an advantage. Are the logistical problems that you've identified any worse than the logistical problems they've already created with Next Gen?
 

jed012788

Member
Lots of interesting points since I last checked in here. I think it's a worthwhile endeavor to compare the dining reservation system with the Fastpass+ concept, but I'm not convinced they are the same. If people forgo their Fastpass+ time, it will simply speed up the standby line. Because the standby line will continue to exist, Disney will fill in those missed reservations with those people.

The restaurants can't operate quite in this way. If somebody shows up at Le Cellier and asks for a table, the Cast Member might say that they are all booked with reservations. They know that there is a chance that some folks might not show up, but they are unable to assume that, which leads to prospective diners being turned away. That won't happen with an attraction. You cannot be "turned away," because eventually, there will be a chance for everybody to ride. It's not quite comparable. Restaurants have to make assumptions based on the likelihood of people showing up for reservations several hours down the road. Attractions won't need to make those sorts of accommodations.

Generally speaking, I think the parks would be better without any Fastpass system, but that ship has long sailed. I do think dining reservations are worthwhile, but I worth they were available, say, 30 days in advance rather than 180.
 

Tim_4

Well-Known Member
They want people to do this on their phone or online. Why do we need a cast member for this?
You said "upon check-in". I assumed that's what you meant.
And I'm loving you didnt actually address any of what I posted.
Is that my duty now? I have to come back here for all eternity to respond to you repeating yourself over and over? The fact is, you're arguing against the evils of NextGen while misrepresenting what NextGen IS. If it was going to be as you describe it, I'd hate it too. Let's press "pause" for now and revisit this once it's fully implemented. Either you'll be pleasantly surprised or find a new reason to hate it.
 

cslafferty

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
You're only planning out 3 rides/attractions per day ahead of time - THREE!! It's not like you have to plan out every single ride you plan on riding with NO spontaneity left at all - like some of you make it sound. Gosh, with FP the way it is now, we have to "plan our attack" WAY more - like Tim posted earlier. Last Dec. the only thing we REALLY wanted to do at DHS was TSMM, since we had only ever been on it one time. We took the bus from POFQ to DHS, got there at rope drop, walked to TSMM, only to find that the return time on the FP was during our ADR. Tried it again the next day, and by the time we got up to the FP kiosk, they were gone. We waisted hours between travel time and time waiting in the FP line and still didn't get on. I would much rather know 60 days out that I either need to forget about riding it, or know that I need to get there early and stand in line then waist all of that vacation time that could have been spent elsewhere. And the band means I don't have to keep track of my room card/park ticket, Photopass card, FP tickets, credit card, etc. I am excited to see how it will all work when we go in Dec.
 

bubbles1812

Well-Known Member
You said "upon check-in". I assumed that's what you meant.
Is that my duty now? I have to come back here for all eternity to respond to you repeating yourself over and over? The fact is, you're arguing against the evils of NextGen while misrepresenting what NextGen IS. If it was going to be as you describe it, I'd hate it too. Let's press "pause" for now and revisit this once it's fully implemented. Either you'll be pleasantly surprised or find a new reason to hate it.
No one forced you to come back to reply to me... You did that of your own accord, fyi.
 

djlaosc

Well-Known Member
Logistics. You just can't process that many people fast enough. Let's say you have 500 check-ins at a resort on a given Saturday or Sunday. Six day visit times 500 check-ins times three Fastpasses per day is 9,000 Fastpass requests for the resort staff to process with guests who don't even know what they want. A six-night guest would be booking 18 Fastpasses. Even if they could pick one Fastpass per minute, which is VERY fast for a non-Disney-expert guest, that's a 20-minute interaction standing at a counter with the kids nagging you that they want to go to the pool. It also requires every check-in CM to be an expert on EVERY attraction. A nice thought, but not gonna happen. They'd have to quadruple the size of every resort lobby and hire dozens of concierges for each location. If the guest does this themselves from their home computer, they have Disney's literature and Google at their fingertips to research to their heart's content, or they can click through and pick random stuff in about five minutes if they're so inclined.

So, instead of at check-in, why not do what they're going to do now from in your room (via the TV?) or from your phone/laptop after you've checked in? Why does it have to be 2 months in advance?
 

copcarguyp71

Well-Known Member
Where was the device made that you used to post this?


Since you asked... http://www.lotuspc.net/us/

Assembled and supported in Orlando. It was a stipulation that I put on our outsourced IT guy we use in the office that there needs to be north american content or assembly at the least. While I realize it is in fact made up of foreign content this is the "sharing the wealth" that I referenced wanting at Disney. Not ALL american but at least some desire to help business on these shores as well as those overseas.
 

Tim_4

Well-Known Member
Why does it have to be 2 months in advance?
Because guests prefer it that way. Most people with a dining reservation are more likely to say "phew, I'm glad I don't have to worry about where I'm eating on my Disney trip" than "ARGH! My day is ruined because I know I have to be at BOG at 5:45."
 

DTale

Active Member
Fastpass distribution is in the 60% range of an attractions capacity if I'm not mistaken.


And this is exactly what's wrong with fastpass, nevermind fastpass+. Disney acts like nobody has an advantage over others in their park, but if I'm stopped at the end of the Splash Mountain queue so 50+ people can go ahead in front of me, I feel like someone has advantage over me.

The issue with all this fastpass nonsense is there are TOO MANY FASTPASSES BEING DISTRIBUTED. The Stand-by Queue should have the priority, not the fastpass. The fastpass already get to skip half the line, so let the 50+ people in the stand-by go in front of those with fastpass!
 

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