Live-Action ‘Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs’

[Chi84]

This discussion has been had before, and I see no sense in rehashing it.

You’re right about one thing, though. The “controversy” has by now gone viral and is part of mainstream discourse. It’s for this reason that I feel the film’s chances have been irreparably hurt and that box-office failure is all but inevitable now. No doubt that’ll make some here very happy.

I doubt many people are truly offended by Zegler’s comments (if that’s what you mean). The people who are already decided against seeing the film won’t see it; most will decide after it comes out and they hear something about it.

Just because you hear a lot about the comments doesn’t mean a lot of people are talking about them. It’s probably the same few saying the same thing many times.

 

[TP2000]

I doubt many people are truly offended by Zegler’s comments (if that’s what you mean). The people who are already decided against seeing the film won’t see it; most will decide after it comes out and they hear something about it.

I doubt most folks who aren't die-hard Disney fans (the type to attend or pay attention to D23 Expo), even knew there was a Snow White movie coming out next year. Until this happened.

Just because you hear a lot about the comments doesn’t mean a lot of people are talking about them. It’s probably the same few saying the same thing many times.

It's certainly the same few of us here saying that, because there's only a few of us here in this thread and subforum. I guesstimate there's maybe two dozen of us here actively posting, and maybe a few hundred more who occasionally stop by to skim without comment.

But some of those Social Media videos and news articles about Snow White have now gained Millions and Millions of views. There's YouTube videos on this topic that are not flattering to Disney that have hundreds of thousands of Likes and several Million views.

Our little group here is nothing really. We aren't influencing anyone or making any impact, other than the fun and interest we have in our discussions here. But the reality on Social Media and its far wider impact on the Snow White brand is something that should be troubling to Disney. And I imagine they were troubled, and are now working to fix it.

 

[LittleBuford]

I doubt many people are truly offended by Zegler’s comments (if that’s what you mean). The people who are already decided against seeing the film won’t see it; most will decide after it comes out and they hear something about it.

Just because you hear a lot about the comments doesn’t mean a lot of people are talking about them. It’s probably the same few saying the same thing many times.

I don’t think significant numbers of people will be turned off by Zegler’s comments. I agree with you that those who truly care constitute a vocal minority. But I do think that a general sense of negativity now surrounds the project as a result of the (largely manufactured) controversy, such that mainstream audiences, without necessarily being able to cite any specific reasons, may simply not feel inspired or enthused enough to go and see the film once it hits cinemas.

I hope I’m wrong.

 

[Chi84]

Will be fascinating to see the general audience’s reaction (AKA family of five with kids between 5-15 in Omaha) to a Disney “Snow White” movie without any dwarves.

The dwarves are one of the most recognizable Disney animated characters still used in park advertising, multiple attractions, meet and greets, parades, character Dining experiences, etc.

To have a “Snow White” movie just dump them for whatever (insert your choice of non-triggering word here) reasons, I predict will be met with much mockery and disbelief.

Can’t wait for the memes…..

I think it's going to depend on what type of film it is. If it's attempting to be a remake close to the original, I can see people being confused by no dwarfs. But Disney isn't including the dwarfs in the title so people will probably be prepared.

 

[mickEblu]

I hope as many people as possible by the physical release of this. If it sells well, and with Disney+ continuing to bleed money, it might motivate Disney to put out more 4k restorations of their older content.

You think the 4K versions are worth buying for someone that already owns all the classics on Diamond and Signature edition Blu-ray’s?

Only one of my three televisions is 4K and it’s probably not the one we’d be watching the movies on. I’d also have to buy a 4K blu Ray player. If I’m not mistaken, only the discs are 4K right? Not the digital versions that are included.

 

[Jedijax719]

Most 4k tv's do such a great job at upscaling from 1080p that you can't tell the difference between BR and 4k. And, actually, I've noticed that D+ 4k actually looks better than some 4k discs (such as No Way Home).

You think the 4K versions are worth buying for someone that already owns all the classics on Diamond and Signature edition Blu-ray’s?

Only one of my three televisions is 4K and it’s probably not the one we’d be watching the movies on. I’d also have to buy a 4K blu Ray player. If I’m not mistaken, only the discs are 4K right? Not the digital versions that are included.

 

[SuddenStorm]

You think the 4K versions are worth buying for someone that already owns all the classics on Diamond and Signature edition Blu-ray’s?

This would very much depend on the film, since Disney tends to mess with the animation on each release. The 4k version of Cinderella far exceeds the Blu Ray version, so that is definitely worth the upgrade.

I imagine the difference for Lion King, BatB, Aladdin, Little Mermaid are negligible though the HDR might be worth the upgrade. Blu-ray.com does reviews of each new release, and might be worth looking through for any titles you want.

Only one of my three televisions is 4K and it’s probably not the one we’d be watching the movies on. I’d also have to buy a 4K blu Ray player. If I’m not mistaken, only the discs are 4K right? Not the digital versions that are included.

The digital versions that are included should be 4k as well. One benefit of the discs is they are a much higher bitrate for the video and the audio. In theory, assuming a high quality enough system, the disc should look and sound better than the digital version.

But so much of the potential benefit of a 4k disc is the HDR or if it was properly remasted for the 4k release (Raiders, Jaws, Gladiator, Cinderella, Alien, etc. all look incredible in 4k compared to their Blu-Ray counterparts)- since so many films were mastered at 1080p then upscaled for the 4k release. And HDR relies on a properly calibrated display to actually make the image look better- and 99% of the displays out there in people's homes are not calibrated properly.

 

[Tha Realest]

I don’t think significant numbers of people will be turned off by Zegler’s comments. I agree with you that those who truly care constitute a vocal minority. But I do think that a general sense of negativity now surrounds the project as a result of the (largely manufactured) controversy, such that mainstream audiences, without necessarily being able to cite any specific reasons, may simply not feel inspired or enthused enough to go and see the film once it hits cinemas.

I hope I’m wrong.

This whole discussion is tedious. If the same people seized on the comments the moment they were made it would be dismissed some other way. I’m curious as to the lagging time it takes for something to cease to be an organic controversy as opposed to a manufactured one. For instance, Disney had a beloved film loved by many for decades, and then when a certain small vocal subset of people started complaining about it online, they removed all trace of it from their parks. Is that also a manufactured controversy that should be dismissed since it took a great many years to come about?

 

[Chi84]

This whole discussion is tedious. If the same people seized on the comments the moment they were made it would be dismissed some other way. I’m curious as to the lagging time it takes for something to cease to be an organic controversy as opposed to a manufactured one. For instance, Disney had a beloved film loved by many for decades, and then when a certain small vocal subset of people started complaining about it online, they removed all trace of it from their parks. Is that also a manufactured controversy that should be dismissed since it took a great many years to come about?

Not if it isn’t the reason.

 

[LittleBuford]

This whole discussion is tedious. If the same people seized on the comments the moment they were made it would be dismissed some other way. I’m curious as to the lagging time it takes for something to cease to be an organic controversy as opposed to a manufactured one. For instance, Disney had a beloved film loved by many for decades, and then when a certain small vocal subset of people started complaining about it online, they removed all trace of it from their parks. Is that also a manufactured controversy that should be dismissed since it took a great many years to come about?

How did I dismiss the controversy? I said the opposite: that I think it has materially jeopardised the film’s chances. Yes, I believe the whole thing has been manufactured (I’m sorry that you find that claim tedious), but that doesn’t mean I don’t also acknowledge its potential impact.

 

[mickEblu]

This would very much depend on the film, since Disney tends to mess with the animation on each release. The 4k version of Cinderella far exceeds the Blu Ray version, so that is definitely worth the upgrade.

I imagine the difference for Lion King, BatB, Aladdin, Little Mermaid are negligible though the HDR might be worth the upgrade. Blu-ray.com does reviews of each new release, and might be worth looking through for any titles you want.



The digital versions that are included should be 4k as well. One benefit of the discs is they are a much higher bitrate for the video and the audio. In theory, assuming a high quality enough system, the disc should look and sound better than the digital version.

But so much of the potential benefit of a 4k disc is the HDR or if it was properly remasted for the 4k release (Raiders, Jaws, Gladiator, Cinderella, Alien, etc. all look incredible in 4k compared to their Blu-Ray counterparts)- since so many films were mastered at 1080p then upscaled for the 4k release. And HDR relies on a properly calibrated display to actually make the image look better- and 99% of the displays out there in people's homes are not calibrated properly.

Oh ya I should have mentioned I have no interest in buying another copy of anything post Sleeping Beauty/ 1959 but I may buy Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Snow White, Pinocchio and a few others if its worth it. Like you said, they really messed up Cinderella with some of the last few releases so that one will be worth it. Hopefully Snow White 4K is also done with care. More than anything though I just want to watch the movies as they were originally viewed by audiences. Not sure I want everything super colorful or crystal clear.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

The only romantic relationships involving a man and a woman seem to be preexisting ones. Before Disney decided to go away from straight romances. Even then some of the preexisting ones involve females that want to put their careers ahead of their family (Mrs. Incredible).

Explain why anyone should care about this.

 

[TP2000]

Oh ya I should have mentioned I have no interest in buying another copy of anything post Sleeping Beauty/ 1959 but I may buy Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Snow White, Pinocchio and a few others if its worth it. Like you said, they really messed up Cinderella with some of the last few releases so that one will be worth it. Hopefully Snow White 4K is also done with care. More than anything though I just want to watch the movies as they were originally viewed by audiences. Not sure I want everything super colorful or crystal clear.

I dunno. I moved into a new house last year that was built by a big housing developer in 2022. The "great room" was outfitted with the ability for a massive 4K laser screen and Dolby audio and all the trimmings, so I took advantage of it and splurged on a new home theater setup.

Watching even just my older Blu-Rays on that new setup in my new home is incredible. Old movies from the 1960's that I've watched regularly since VHS days and have seen many times on my old 70 inch screen in Blu-Ray seem to leap to new life on a 100+ inch screen upscaled to 4K. If Disney can release their original 20th century classics in modern 4K, I'd buy them all up immediately.

Just to see those Walt classics as the designers intended, even if the 2023 suburban Utah gated community cheesy McMansion version is vastly superior to the 1937 Carthay Circle Theater version that Walt and his compatriots saw themselves. But only because Walt and those mid 20th century projectionists didn't have the technology to screen the movies the way the artists had wanted them to look in the first place.

 

[TP2000]

And HDR relies on a properly calibrated display to actually make the image look better- and 99% of the displays out there in people's homes are not calibrated properly.

Oh, geez. Now I'm second guessing myself.

I had two nerdy guys from Best Buy come install and do "calibrations" to my home theater setup when I moved in last year. They fiddled with things for an hour. I offered them Pepsi's during the process, and tipped them afterward. To me, it all looks incredible. Especially when I am watching a Blu-Ray, or a current TV show from a major media outlet in 4K. But even old 480p upscaled episodes of Three's Company look incredible on it. To me at least.

Is there some way of knowing if your 4K giant screen home theater is set up correctly? Aside from the confident words of two nerdy guys from Best Buy all hopped up on free Pepsi-Cola?

 

[Ghost93]

Oh ya I should have mentioned I have no interest in buying another copy of anything post Sleeping Beauty/ 1959 but I may buy Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Snow White, Pinocchio and a few others if its worth it. Like you said, they really messed up Cinderella with some of the last few releases so that one will be worth it. Hopefully Snow White 4K is also done with care. More than anything though I just want to watch the movies as they were originally viewed by audiences. Not sure I want everything super colorful or crystal clear.

I would like to see Beauty and the Beast's darker colors restored. The film's original version had a darker look/mood that was completely scrapped after the 2002 restoration.

Other than that, I agree that the Walt-era films would benefit more from a restoration than the Disney Renaissance movies.

 

[mickEblu]

I dunno. I moved into a new house last year that was built by a big housing developer in 2022. The "great room" was outfitted with the ability for a massive 4K laser screen and Dolby audio and all the trimmings, so I took advantage of it and splurged on a new home theater setup.

Watching even just my older Blu-Rays on that new setup in my new home is incredible. Old movies from the 1960's that I've watched regularly since VHS days and have seen many times on my old 70 inch screen in Blu-Ray seem to leap to new life on a 100+ inch screen upscaled to 4K. If Disney can release their original 20th century classics in modern 4K, I'd buy them all up immediately.

Just to see those Walt classics as the designers intended, even if the 2023 suburban Utah gated community cheesy McMansion version is vastly superior to the 1937 Carthay Circle Theater version that Walt and his compatriots saw themselves. But only because Walt and those mid 20th century projectionists didn't have the technology to screen the movies the way the artists had wanted them to look in the first place.

True. I just think there is a fine line in this case between enhancing and altering. With that said, they ve been altering for years so we may be approaching a situation where where it’s just a case of this altered version being better than the last altered version. And if it so happens to be closer to the way the original artists wanted it to look then even better.

Your home theatre sounds fabulous. You just unlocked a new life goal for me haha.

 

[mickEblu]

I would like to see Beauty and the Beast's darker colors restored. The film's original version had a darker look/mood that was completely scrapped after the 2002 restoration.

Other than that, I agree that the Walt-era films would benefit more from a restoration than the Disney Renaissance movies.

You re probably right.

Even though I was born in the early 80s I don’t have the same affinity for the renaissance movies. Loved them when I was a kid and still enjoy them but as an adult it’s really the Golden Era classics I’m fascinated with for the works of art they are, the history and those golden chorales/ music. The animation quality in the Renaissance films are closer to Disney Afternoon quality than the works of art from Snow White to Sleeping Beauty. It’s also worth mentioning that when I was a kid, Disney was still re releasing those Golden Era classics in theatres and had just began selling them on VHS so they were relevant for me. Not to mention the lack of pretty much any competition or thousands of commercial free options for kids via streaming. I grew up on Alice in Wonderland, Cinderella, Who Framed Roger Rabbit and Pinocchio because those were the VHS tapes I owned. Although I had my mom rent me Return to Oz from The Wherehouse so often I have no idea why she never bought it.

 

[BrianLo]

Leaving aside how Zegler herself might feel (because that’s unlikely to matter to her detractors), I’m truly baffled that so many grown adults would let themselves get this worked up over something so inconsequential. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything quite like it.

I have purposefully not really bothered with this thread (and I see for good reason). But this is not the first time the 'grown adult' contingent has tried to tear down a female in the industry and it won't be the last.

This is playing out exactly like Halle Bailey, Brie Larson, Rose Tico, Daisy Ridley, Kathleen Kennedy, etc.

We still have folks who can't really accept that Halle for instance was actually excellent in the role, much to their disappointment.

Heck - Margot and Greta only escaped because the movie was so beloved that the detractors got drowned out.

 

[BrianLo]

Even though I was born in the early 80s I don’t have the same affinity for the renaissance movies.

That does make sense though. Renaissance films are the strong purview of mid-late millennials. Late Gen X really lived through the dark ages of animation and only had the strong Walt films to largely grow attached to.

We're in the third wave of nostalgia generation now for Gen Alpha. They'll come to grow to be most nostalgic for Frozen, Moana, Encanto, while millennials were renaissance and everyone older was about Walt's films. It doesn't degrade the originals of course, we just have way more relevant layers to peel back to get kids to see them.

Moana is really the modern gateway drug to Snow White now. The 'Princess brand' really was a power move by Eisner to keep those older films discoverable to kids.

 

[mickEblu]

I have purposefully not really bothered with this thread (and I see for good reason). But this is not the first time the 'grown adult' contingent has tried to tear down a female in the industry and it won't be the last.

This is playing out exactly like Halle Bailey, Brie Larson, Rose Tico, Daisy Ridley, Kathleen Kennedy, etc.

We still have folks who can't really accept that Halle for instance was actually excellent in the role, much to their disappointment.

Heck - Margot and Greta only escaped because the movie was so beloved that the detractors got drowned out.

And probably because she looks like the Barbie people grew up playing with.

What was the issue with Daisy? I never had an issue with her personally. Probably because she was a new character and it was 2015 so we hadn’t been beat over the head with the girl power themes yet.