AdventureHasAName
Well-Known Member
You don't have to take the criticism seriously ... just don't be surprised when the company gets sold and that criticism is a large part of the reason.
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
Live-Action ‘Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs’
- Thread starter NateD1226
- Start date
- Status
Chi84
Premium Member
If the company gets sold it will likely be because of deterioration brought about by the abject greed and mismanagement of its current leaders, not because of its principles.
CJR
Well-Known Member
I mean, given the box office numbers, I'd say that's what most people are doing.
Longer term, I think it'll be even more weighted. In the year 2050, I think more people will watch the 1955 Lady and the Tramp than the 2019 Lady and the Tramp. I'll place that bet. I'd even bet that almost no one will watch the 2019 version. We'll see, I hope to still be alive in 2050. Same for Pinocchio.
Even in China, are people reacting well to the remakes? It didn't do well financially with The Little Mermaid, which I enjoyed btw. So, I'm not seeing any sign of a short term loss for a long term gain. I think most of the content will just get forgotten about, because it's been lackluster at best, and cost the company billions of dollars when it's all said and done.
As a shareholder, I'd rather them stop taking losses. I don't see any evidence that their PC goal is working on a financial level, and it's a publicly traded company, so they need to deliver a return at some point.
CJR
Well-Known Member
That's what you got out of all that I said? Yes I do, but I'm not going to go any further into that. It's not appropriate for this forum, so I won't.
The overall point is that their film business is losing money, especially when you remove Marvel from the equation. People aren't watching the remakes, not enough of them, and it's a business. A publicly owned business.
Chi84
Premium Member
Well yes, because generally one’s goal drives everything. All that is done is in furtherance of a goal. Do you think Disney is doing remakes because they are not happy with the originals? I happen to like the live-action versions but I’m sure they’ll stop if Disney no longer finds them worthwhile.
So if you’re suggesting that their goal is to be PC instead of to make money, I’d like to know why.
Last edited:
doctornick
Well-Known Member
Can't speak for anyone else, but my main concern is basically this: I like Disney. I generally enjoy Disney movies. I enjoy going to Disney parks. I like Disney+. So my concern is that I want them to do well at the box office so they can continue to produce things I enjoy. When they have tons of losses at the box office, it it will impact things I like and that is not ideal.
Mostly I'm not too personally bothered by Disney's current direction although there are a few things they have made that I have disliked. There's some stuff I think is too heavy handed but it is more of an eye roll in the middle of a show or film where it's clear the DEI folks got to make their mark than my thinking a production is overall bad. But that's a whatever, not a big deal.
My main real concern is that Disney's positioning within the ongoing culture war is going to continue to turn off significant chunks of their potential customers. And doing so means less money for the company and fewer things that I can watch, more cuts at the parks, shows taken off on D+, etc. So I do care about what they do not on some principle or being offended but because I want to see the company be on financially stable ground for my purposes to be met.
Chi84
Premium Member
But when you talk about positioning - how does not taking a position differ from taking a position in favor of the keeping the status quo? Would not taking a position still allow Disney to cast Halle Bailey as Ariel?
CJR
Well-Known Member
Sorry for the long post, wrote in between tasks.
Their goal was and is to make money, they just haven't since 2019. Over time, especially since 2020, I think they have shifted towards an "image correction" that led to more focus on their older IP. I personally find this path unnecessary, but that's just my opinion.
The real problem is not being PC, but the shallow (watered down) stories themselves as a result of corporate interference. The stories are inoffensive, but pointless and arguably boring. Rather consistently too, IMO.
I don’t think anyone should have had high expectations for the films released directly to Disney+, but as a business leader, you have to think how that impact brand image and how people will associate that remake with your next theatrical release. The Little Mermaid suffered because of these movies, IMHO. Maybe there's a bit of remake fatigue too, but Pinocchio didn't help.
It's similar to how the old terrible direct to video sequels did damage to Disney's brand perception, leading to low box office grosses for films in the 2000's. I mean, the DTV movies weren't the only reason, but I believe that they played a role.
So while their goal is to make money, I'm saying that they are not making money, and not just the remakes. The Haunted Mansion just bombed. They're pumping out films that people haven't asked for and are doing them with mega budgets. Even the Disney+ stuff was too expensive.
The starting point in writing a script shouldn't be trying to exclude certain portions of the original story and I feel like that's where we are. There needs to be more reason to tell a story than to simply retell it without the arguably offensive parts. It also helps when the people making the movie are passionate about the source material and I'm not seeing that either.
Completely agree.
Like I said, I enjoyed TLM and other projects, personally. However, I am just one fan. Also, I am a shareholder. I too want the company to succeed.
The problem for me is that it's not, and I am not feeling assured that it will, not under its current leadership. They need a change (and not just a CEO change). It seems obvious to me.
This strategy is just not working and I don't believe it will. The mass remake craze died in 2019 and they need to roll up their sleeves and do a bit of creative work.
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
Disney is being positioned in the culture war by those looking for an easy, identifiable target for their grievances. It’s why only Disney’s lacklustre box-office performances are framed as ideological failures while equivalent, or worse, performances from other studios are shrugged off. It’s why Barbie’s strong feminist message is downplayed by the same people who insist that today’s Disney hates men. It didn’t used to be this way, even a few short years ago. What’s changed isn’t so much the tenor of Disney’s output as it is the way that Disney is being spoken of and characterised.
AdventureHasAName
Well-Known Member
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
The word “leak” should tell you something. Disney’s public messaging generally avoids controversy at all costs.
GimpYancIent
Well-Known Member
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
Could you elaborate?
AdventureHasAName
Well-Known Member
I'll answer for him. The leaked video is why we know that Disney has placed itself firmly and intentionally in the center of the culture wars. Before the leak we knew it was firm, but we didn't know it was intentional ... now we do. And that is why your assertion in a previous post that Disney had been placed in the culture wars unwillingly by others is kind of ridiculous.
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
There are other behind-the-scenes conversations that take place—the one that initially decided to suppress the gay kiss in Lightyear, for example—that run the other way. A big company like Disney has bedfellows across the political spectrum (as its donations show).
Last edited:
CJR
Well-Known Member
Correct. Sorry, I was less than clear. I was talking about all of Disney's releases, not just the animated remakes. The Haunted Mansion, being the latest.
People are rewatching old Disney movies in general instead of seeing anything new, in mass.
That could buck the trend with Wish, and I'd love to see it, they worked hard on it and know the stakes, I think. Elemental also showed some life, although it's profitability status is not there. Moreover, total up Disney's overall loses over the last year and it's not a good number.
I'd also wager that Pinocchio, Disenchanted (not a remake, but a sequel), and others haven't had much feet in streaming. I'd place a bet that in July 2023, less than a year later, Walt Disney's Pinocchio is streamed more and Enchanted is streamed more. Neither were real hits. Those also weren't cheap, despite feeling cheap when I watched them (I mean Pinocchio had Tom Hanks).
Tha Realest
Well-Known Member
The D+ Pinocchio kind of came and went, and other than ridicule at its pacing, story decisions, gags and uncanny valley, didn’t really seem to move he needle for anyone. Del Toro’s film was widely acclaimed and I believe won awards.
The inherent problem is the former cost $150M, and the latter $35M.
CJR
Well-Known Member
That's it exactly. I feel the same has been true for a lot of Disney's projects too.
They're too expensive from the start and they try to play creative things too safely, to appease branding requirements, so that all that's there is a bland boring story.
Del Toro was attached to The Haunted Mansion at one point, but he was "too scary". It makes you wonder how Disney would be if they let creative people be creative and didn't give them corporate boxes to check off when working with the company.
- Status