Live-Action ‘Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs’

[LittleBuford]

My problem with Alice in Wonderland is that it was absolutely atrocious. Went with my wife and a buddy, and we walked out and each one of us wanted to leave half an hour in, but we all thought the others were enjoying it. It was a cathartic moment for all of us, and now if we hate something, we just leave.

I didn't like it either. My point was only that I don't recall anyone criticising it for retaining the name of the film it (very, very loosely) remade.

 

[TP2000]

Which is no different from how they've framed a number of their other remakes, none of which have provoked this kind of reaction.

That seems to be where Rachel Zegler comes in and makes this story go viral.

Miss Zegler is simply not established enough or tenured enough in her industry to be so dismissive of Walt's original work. She's a recent high school graduate who has been in two mega flop movies so far, and that's not a solid enough resume' to take on Walt Disney and his 20th century team of artistic geniuses.

That she also made her little smirky faces and mugged for the camera as she rolled her eyes about how ancient and out of touch Walt must have been back in some mysterious year called 1937 didn't help her messaging. It made her unlikable.

There was plenty of anger and bafflement about this Snow White movie when that first photo of the Seven Hipsters dropped on Social Media already. Rachel Zegler's own formal interviews sent the story into overdrive in the following weeks. Now Disney needs to fix it. Somehow.

 

[erasure fan1]

Your argument appears to be that people were accepting of the identical name because they were already primed to expect something very different from the original. In other words, no-one went to the cinema with the notion that they would see a faithful remake of the animated feature

Well it's Tim freaking Burton. No one on the planet expected it to be anything but a Burton film. It's what he does.

so why are people so hung up over the title, which is, in fact, different from that of the 1937 film anyway?

Really they're not. It's the other stuff that caused the issues. People are talking about the name as something they should have done similar to Tangled.

Were they to change the title, the reaction would be only be further anger and outrage: "They hate the original movie so much that now they're erasing its name!"

Because at this point, too many dominoes have fallen. The only thing left for this film, is to hope that it's actually really good. They've lost a sizeable portion of the fan base, and they won't change their minds. When people talk about the name change it's not about doing it now. It's about what they should have done from the start so we wouldn't be having this issue. It was just a bad marketing plan.

And realistically, there isn't a scenario that I can think of that doesn't involve a large chunk of the fan base hating on the film. People are sick of these remakes. Even a lot of the positive verified top critics who gave mermaid positive reviews, questioned the need for the remake. I would fully expect a lot of negativity when any of the pending remakes come out.

 

[GimpYancIent]

I doubt it. That was a movie vehicle for both Johnny Depp's and Tim Burton's signature styles, not the girl.

It was Johnny Depp starring in a Tim Burton film, from conception to marketing. Who even was the actress who played Alice in that film? Can anyone even remember? Mr. Depp got top billing and was clearly the star of the show.

Mia Wasikowski.

 

[LittleBuford]

People are sick of these remakes.

You say that, but 2019 saw the release of two of the most lucrative remakes to date. Perhaps the tide has turned, but we don't yet have enough evidence to that effect.

 

[LittleBuford]

I can’t wait for the teaser - so many closeups of the witch, an apple, Snow White’s dress, and no mention whatsoever of no dwarves in the movie.

Why would they mention characters that aren't in the movie?

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

To ask explicitly something I only alluded to earlier: Did people have a problem with the remake of Alice in Wonderland being thus titled when it strayed so far from the cartoon?

You keep mentioning how different the Alice movies were and I'm struggling to remember what was so different about them, I haven't seen either in probably a decade so my honest recollection of both is Alice follows a rabbit, falls down a hole into a fantasy world, meets a bunch of strange characters (hatter, cheshire cat, smoking catterpiller, tweetle dee and dum, etc), has a run in with the queen of hearts, plays mini golf, drinks potions that make her big and small, has a tea party... I'm sure I'm missing a bunch of plot points but both movies seem to have shared all the big memorable scenes.

My memory of Snow White is probably equally as clif notes... the queen asks the mirror who's the fairest of them all, she wants to kill Snow because it said she is, Snow runs away and hides in the dwarfs house, she can speak with animals through song, the queen finds her and poisons her with an apple, the dwarfs battle the queen and she falls to her death, the prince kisses Snow and true loves kiss awakens her.

From what we've heard so far I'd be shocked if the new Snow movie even touches on 25% of the memorable plot points.

Both are very old movies so most people memories are probably going to be limited to the most memorable scenes, maybe my memory is worse than most but I thought the new Alice movie was very similar to the original.

 

[LittleBuford]

You keep mentioning how different the Alice movies were and I'm struggling to remember what was so different about them, I haven't seen either in probably a decade so my honest recollection of both is Alice follows a rabbit, falls down a hole into a fantasy world, meets a bunch of strange characters (hatter, cheshire cat, smoking catterpiller, tweetle dee and dum, etc), has a run in with the queen of hearts, plays mini golf, drinks potions that make her big and small, has a tea party... I'm sure I'm missing a bunch of plot points but both movies seem to have shared all the big memorable scenes.

Here's a summary of the plot so that you can decide for yourself how similar it is to the cartoon. By my reckoning, not very:

Spoiler: Plot of Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland

In 1868, 19-year-old Alice Kingsleigh, mourning the recent loss of her father, is troubled by strange recurring dreams and the stifling expectations of the society in which she lives. After receiving an unwanted marriage proposal from Hamish Ascot at his father's garden party, Alice spots a familiar white rabbit wearing a waistcoat and carrying a pocket watch. She follows it to a rabbit hole and accidentally falls in. She shrinks after drinking from a bottle labeled 'Drink Me' (called a Pishsalver), meaning she cannot reach a key on a table, and then eats a cake labeled 'Eat Me' (called an Upelkuchen), transforming into a giantess. After drinking from the bottle again to fit through a tiny door, she enters the forest of a fantastical place called Underland. There, she is greeted by the White Rabbit, a Dormouse, a Dodo, Talking Flowers, and identical twins Tweedledum and Tweedledee, who all apparently know her.

Alice asserts that she is dreaming, but learns from Absolem the Caterpillar that she is destined to slay the Jabberwocky and end the tyranny of the Red Queen. The group is ambushed by the ravenous Bandersnatch and the Red Queen's knights, led by the Knave of Hearts. All are captured except Alice, who escapes, and the Dormouse, who takes one of the Bandersnatch's eyes. The Knave informs the Red Queen of Alice's return, and is ordered to find her immediately.

The Cheshire Cat guides Alice to the Mad Hatter, March Hare, and Dormouse's tea party. The Hatter explains that the Red Queen took over Underland, usurping her sister the White Queen. He joined the resistance after she destroyed his village and killed his family. The red knights seize the party, but the Hatter allows himself to be captured so Alice can flee. Alice is found by the Knave's Bloodhound, who is allied with the resistance. He takes Alice to the Red Queen's castle, where she accidentally outgrows her clothes after eating another Upelkuchen.

Infiltrating the palace as a courtier named "Um", Alice learns that the vorpal sword, the only weapon capable of killing the Jabberwocky, is locked inside the Bandersnatch's den. The knave makes advances to Alice, which she rebuffs, but the jealous Red Queen orders her beheading. Alice obtains the sword and returns the Bandersnatch's eye. He gratefully helps her escape the castle and delivers her to the White Queen, who gives Alice a potion that returns her normal size. The Cheshire Cat uses his shapeshifting powers to free the Mad Hatter, who incites rebellion amongst the Red Queen's subjects. Meanwhile, Absolem, who is turning into a pupa, finally gets Alice to remember that she visited Underland when she was a little girl, and called it "Wonderland". Just before his chrysalis closes, he advises her to fight the Jabberwocky.

The Queens gather their armies on a chessboard-like battlefield and send Alice and the Jabberwocky to decide the battle in single combat. Alice beheads the Jabberwocky with the vorpal sword, and the red knights gratefully turn against their ruler. The White Queen banishes her sister and the Knave into exile together, then gives Alice a vial of the Jabberwocky's purple blood, which can fulfill one wish. Alice says farewell to her friends, then wishes to return home.

Alice awakens and escapes the rabbit hole, dirty and scratched from her fall. When she returns to the gazebo at the garden party, she refuses Hamish's proposal and impresses Lord Ascot with her idea of establishing trade routes to Hong Kong, inspiring him to take her on as his apprentice. As Alice prepares to set off on a trading ship, Absolem, in his new butterfly form, lands on her shoulder.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Here's a summary of the plot so that you can decide for yourself how similar it is to the cartoon. By my reckoning, not very:

Spoiler: Plot of Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland

In 1868, 19-year-old Alice Kingsleigh, mourning the recent loss of her father, is troubled by strange recurring dreams and the stifling expectations of the society in which she lives. After receiving an unwanted marriage proposal from Hamish Ascot at his father's garden party, Alice spots a familiar white rabbit wearing a waistcoat and carrying a pocket watch. She follows it to a rabbit hole and accidentally falls in. She shrinks after drinking from a bottle labeled 'Drink Me' (called a Pishsalver), meaning she cannot reach a key on a table, and then eats a cake labeled 'Eat Me' (called an Upelkuchen), transforming into a giantess. After drinking from the bottle again to fit through a tiny door, she enters the forest of a fantastical place called Underland. There, she is greeted by the White Rabbit, a Dormouse, a Dodo, Talking Flowers, and identical twins Tweedledum and Tweedledee, who all apparently know her.

Alice asserts that she is dreaming, but learns from Absolem the Caterpillar that she is destined to slay the Jabberwocky and end the tyranny of the Red Queen. The group is ambushed by the ravenous Bandersnatch and the Red Queen's knights, led by the Knave of Hearts. All are captured except Alice, who escapes, and the Dormouse, who takes one of the Bandersnatch's eyes. The Knave informs the Red Queen of Alice's return, and is ordered to find her immediately.

The Cheshire Cat guides Alice to the Mad Hatter, March Hare, and Dormouse's tea party. The Hatter explains that the Red Queen took over Underland, usurping her sister the White Queen. He joined the resistance after she destroyed his village and killed his family. The red knights seize the party, but the Hatter allows himself to be captured so Alice can flee. Alice is found by the Knave's Bloodhound, who is allied with the resistance. He takes Alice to the Red Queen's castle, where she accidentally outgrows her clothes after eating another Upelkuchen.

Infiltrating the palace as a courtier named "Um", Alice learns that the vorpal sword, the only weapon capable of killing the Jabberwocky, is locked inside the Bandersnatch's den. The knave makes advances to Alice, which she rebuffs, but the jealous Red Queen orders her beheading. Alice obtains the sword and returns the Bandersnatch's eye. He gratefully helps her escape the castle and delivers her to the White Queen, who gives Alice a potion that returns her normal size. The Cheshire Cat uses his shapeshifting powers to free the Mad Hatter, who incites rebellion amongst the Red Queen's subjects. Meanwhile, Absolem, who is turning into a pupa, finally gets Alice to remember that she visited Underland when she was a little girl, and called it "Wonderland". Just before his chrysalis closes, he advises her to fight the Jabberwocky.

The Queens gather their armies on a chessboard-like battlefield and send Alice and the Jabberwocky to decide the battle in single combat. Alice beheads the Jabberwocky with the vorpal sword, and the red knights gratefully turn against their ruler. The White Queen banishes her sister and the Knave into exile together, then gives Alice a vial of the Jabberwocky's purple blood, which can fulfill one wish. Alice says farewell to her friends, then wishes to return home.

Alice awakens and escapes the rabbit hole, dirty and scratched from her fall. When she returns to the gazebo at the garden party, she refuses Hamish's proposal and impresses Lord Ascot with her idea of establishing trade routes to Hong Kong, inspiring him to take her on as his apprentice. As Alice prepares to set off on a trading ship, Absolem, in his new butterfly form, lands on her shoulder.

I'm not doubting it's different, I'm just highlighting how they hit on all the big memorable points to make it seem very familiar. Even the trailer was a who's who of the big Alice memories from the 1950s film.



Maybe the new Snow White marketing team will be able to pull off the same level of nostalgia with their modified story, we'll find out in a few months when trailers start popping up, so far all we've got is the actors talking about how drastically different it will be though.

My point is with old movies we're going to have a handful of core memories that stand out, the new Alice seemed to hit all of them which made it feel the same even if it was different. Everything said so far about Snow White makes me believe it won't include most our core memories so it's going to feel very different.

 

[DisneyHead123]

This is the sort of explanation that should make grown adults pause and reflect on their behaviour. If all of this anger really does hinge on something so superficial as a 22-year-old's (perceived) smirk, there is something very weird going on. Mature individuals—no matter how passionate they may be about Disney—should not be getting this worked up over something so objectively inconsequential.

So, unfortunately, I don't think anything 'weird' is going on, in the sense of 'weird' meaning 'unusual'. Social media is often a very very toxic place, and mob bullying is not uncommon, often over silly and trivial things.

Awful, concerning, should-be-addressed, yes. But unusual, no. (As a related aside, a psychologist by the name of Jonathan Haidt released a study not too long ago purporting to show that social media use is related to an epidemic of mental health problems among the young. I don't claim to be qualified to peer review his work, but it makes one think.)

I think this is a new and uncharted challenge for companies like Disney - entertainment lives and dies by what's "trending", including, often, mob bullying campaigns. I don't claim to have any answers there, just noting that it's a worrisome feature of our new internet based landscape.

Edited to add: When I say "bullying", I'm not talking about measured conversations like the ones here. I mean people on TikTok tearing Zegler apart with videos calling her a "Pick Me Girl" and such.

 

[LittleBuford]

My point is with old movies we're going to have a handful of core memories that stand out, the new Alice seemed to hit all of them which made it feel the same even if it was different.

For you it did, for me it didn’t. As a huge fan of both the animated film and the book, I hated the live-action version and have never wanted to rewatch it.

Everything said so far about Snow White makes me believe it won't include most our core memories so it's going to feel very different.

My sense is that it’ll have more in common with its animated counterpart than Tim Burton’s Alice in Wonderful did. But I guess we’ll have to wait until it comes out to know.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

For you it did, for me it didn’t. As a huge fan of both the animated film and the book, I hated the live-action version and have never wanted to rewatch it.


My sense is that it’ll have more in common with its animated counterpart than Tim Burton’s Alice in Wonderful did. But I guess we’ll have to wait until it comes out to know.

I don't recall disliking the live action Alice but the fact it came out 13 years ago and it's been a decade+ since I watched it shows I must not have found it that great either. With the exception of Cruella and Maleficent that's been true of all the remakes though, I usually watch them once out of curiosity and then rarely (if ever) watch them again.

I hope you're right and Snow surprises me, as a lifelong Disney fan I miss watching a new Disney movie and walking out with a huge smile on my face, Haunted Mansion is the only Disney movie this year that's had that affect.

 

[ParkPeeker]

I largely agree with this, though Alice in Wonderland does not, to my mind, keep relatively close to the plot and spirit of the original. I don’t recall that particular remake coming up in this thread before, which is weird given that one of the complaints about Snow White is that it (partially) retains the title of the original and therefore sets false expectations.

I brought it up as a reply to Vegas! along with Mulan and the jungle book 2016, but got no response, maybe he blocked me

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I brought it up as a reply to Vegas! along with Mulan and the jungle book 2016, but got no response, maybe he blocked me

Nope, just stepped away from the site for the night to escape the back and forth and then missed it while skimming to catch up.

As I mentioned to Little my memory of the Alice remake was it hit the key points of the original, or at least what I remembered of it. I don’t recall The Jungle book being all that different either.

I absolutely detest what they did to Mulan though, they took away the heart of the story and her sacrifice for her family when they decided to make her a super human as a child and she never had to overcome the odds to gain the respect of her fellow soldiers. Probably the worst remake they’ve ever done.

I think Snow has created a unique situation because nothings been released officially, there’s been no trailers, no official statements to highlight how it will relate to the original, all we’ve got is a few actors comments laughingly commenting how it won’t be like the original. Disney will eventually release a greatest hits trailer to draw on our memories but so far all we have is the actors comments about how they’re changing a movie we all grew up with.

With Alice, Mulan, Etc our introduction was trailers carefully crafted to tug on our memories, we haven’t gotten that with Snow.

The end result is it sounds like it’ll be a totally different story, similar to Cruella, rather than a retelling of the original story.

 

[MickeyMouse10]

There are different storylines in Snow White, but the main storyline is LOVE. Love for her Prince and vice versa and love for the Dwarfs and vice versa. To focus the storyline mostly on her becoming a leader and slaying the Queen is going totally away from it. The Dwarfs want to kill the Queen because they love Snow White. And the Prince kisses her because he thinks it will be his last kiss with his one true love. To make it like love is less important than personal gain is just wrong.

 

[erasure fan1]

You say that, but 2019 saw the release of two of the most lucrative remakes to date. Perhaps the tide has turned, but we don't yet have enough evidence to that effect.

Don't mistake lucrative with enjoyment. Lion king was hugely "lucrative" but people seem to dislike it, a lot. I thought it was terrible. Aladdin wasn't as bad but still seemed to be considered unnecessary and no one seems to care about it now. There's a reason Disney keeps making these. Because they have the potential to sell well. Disney doesn't really care if people love or even like them, they just want them to show up. Hence the nostalgia bait trailers. Personally I think a lot of people are just plain sick of it. And that's been why everything that's happened with snow white has been so amplified.

 

[DKampy]

Don't mistake lucrative with enjoyment. Lion king was hugely "lucrative" but people seem to dislike it, a lot. I thought it was terrible. Aladdin wasn't as bad but still seemed to be considered unnecessary and no one seems to care about it now. There's a reason Disney keeps making these. Because they have the potential to sell well. Disney doesn't really care if people love or even like them, they just want them to show up. Hence the nostalgia bait trailers. Personally I think a lot of people are just plain sick of it. And that's been why everything that's happened with snow white has been so amplified.

Except some people must of enjoyed The Lion King and Aladdin remakes… you don’t usually pass a billion with out word of mouth and/or repeat viewings

 

[Chi84]

Except some people must of enjoyed The Lion King and Aladdin remakes… you don’t usually pass a billion with out word of mouth and/or repeat viewings

I prefer most of the live-action remakes to the animated versions, although I didn’t see The Lion King. They allow the story to be expanded and in my opinion, the human expression of emotion adds so much.

 

[erasure fan1]

Except some people must of enjoyed The Lion King and Aladdin remakes… you don’t usually pass a billion with out word of mouth and/or repeat viewings

Or a lot of people got suckered into the nostalgia bait and left the theater saying, well, that was not needed. I'm not sure anyone would argue that transformers age of extinction is a good movie. And that any large number of people enjoyed it. Heck all I hear is how bad Transformers 3 is as well. But that's over a billion as well. And to think that the last 2 Transformers movies weren't hurt because of Bays lazy uninspired transformers films would be strange to me. Maybe I'm looking too into it, but I sure see a similar pattern.

 

[DKampy]

Or a lot of people got suckered into the nostalgia bait and left the theater saying, well, that was not needed. I'm not sure anyone would argue that transformers age of extinction is a good movie. And that any large number of people enjoyed it. Heck all I hear is how bad Transformers 3 is as well. But that's over a billion as well. And to think that the last 2 Transformers movies weren't hurt because of Bays lazy uninspired transformers films would be strange to me. Maybe I'm looking too into it, but I sure see a similar pattern.

Agreed on Transformers…I did not even care for the first one… I never watched any after that… but others seem to have liked them… I personally did not care for Aladdin or The Lion King… they are my least favorite of the live actions… but I recall people liking at least Aladdin at the time… particularly praising Will Smith and I thought. really??? He does not hold a candle to Robin Williams