Lines at the FP+ entrances

[Fractal514]

Last August I don't think we ever used more than 2 fastpasses a day we just hit the parks early, then when the queues built up used the APP to check where the shortest queues were and headed over to those rides.

Occasionally one of us ran ahead to grab a fast pass ie. Soarin and Everest, but some rides we just never got to do like Maelstrom because the return times were about 3 hours away and we didn't want to commit to being back there in 3 hours. If I could have scheduled the fastpass in advance then walked over and done that part of the park then. Not being able to schedule Soarin, Test track and Maelstrom is a real pain though, most of the rest are walk on anyway.

To me, this is where being a good planner will help a ton. Maelstrom can be a walk-on most days, before 3pm. In the evening it is most definitely likely to be swamped.

I will say though that problem that I think is being illustrated isn't the tier system of distribution, but rather the lac of "must-do" rides in Epcot, the Studios, and AK.

 

[Disneyfamily4]

If you accept that premise, do you also accept that people staying on property are entitled to more FP+ or earlier access?

The thing I don't know is whether or not Park Hopping is the norm or the deviant. If most people park hop, and Disney is trying to make most people happy, then they should allow for it. If most people do NOT park hop, but rather hit only one park in a day, then Disney will want to appease those individuals.

I mean, it is similar to the AP debate, in that it's all in how you look at it. Some people think APers pay a premium, others actually see it as a discount when you look at the cost per admission to a park over the year. Some people might look at park hopping and say, look I paid extra, I deserve more flexibility in my FP+ selections, but someone else might say, well, in gaining admission to two parks for a drastically reduced price, you actually saved money with the Park Hopper and therefore are NOT entitled to anything extra, since you already got a financial savings. Do you see the logic there?

Yes, I believe annual pass holders and people who stay in the resorts deserve more than the guests who don't spend nearly as much and rent a condo/villa or hotel room outside of Disney. Why should I have the same amount of fast passes after spending 4000, then the person next to me, who spent 1000 and is at hotel room?

 

[doctornick]

Whats my thought? This system absolutely sucks. I have not really seen any positives for the guest. I'll have an open mind but for the life of me I cannot think of one positive.

1. Being able to reserve times for rides ahead of time, allowing for people to get to the park "late" and still have FP+ in hand for TSMM or Soarin', etc.
2. Being able to change the time or attraction for a FP+ because (1) the time window doesn't work for you or (2) you missed your time
3. Being able to acquire FP+ without walking all over the park and having to "backtrack" to the ride when the window opens
4. Being notified on your phone that a ride is down during your FP+ window and being able to use that FP+ to go on any ride automatically

Now, you may argue that these positives don't make a difference to you and that's fine. But to pretend that FP+ offers no potential upside to guests is not reasonable.

I'm not saying that I like or prefer FP+ to paper FP (I don't), but you don't have to like it to recognize that there are aspects that would be beneficial to some guests or seen as improvements.

 

[Disneyfamily4]

1. Being able to reserve times for rides ahead of time, allowing for people to get to the park "late" and still have FP+ in hand for TSMM or Soarin', etc.
2. Being able to change the time or attraction for a FP+ because (1) the time window doesn't work for you or (2) you missed your time
3. Being able to acquire FP+ without walking all over the park and having to "backtrack" to the ride when the window opens
4. Being notified on your phone that a ride is down during your FP+ window and being able to use that FP+ to go on any ride automatically

Now, you may argue that these positives don't make a difference to you and that's fine. But to pretend that FP+ offers no potential upside to guests is not reasonable.

I'm not saying that I like or prefer FP+ to paper FP (I don't), but you don't have to like it to recognize that there are aspects that would be beneficial to some guests or seen as improvements.

Doctorrnick, When do you usually go to Disney? Because all of your posts about the benefits, only benefit the September crowd. Which is the time of year that every single kid in the United States is back to school and nobody at all is in Disney World.

 

[Disneyfamily4]

I think everyone who goes to on vacation likes the spontaneity of being on vacation.

If I wake up in Disney and it is pouring outside, do you know what I want to do? I want to go back to bed. The last thing I want to do is get out my telephone or computer out, search for a signal, then having to change several days of reservations. It is a major inconvenience. Because if I want to go to Epcot and it is pouring, I will go the following day, therefore everyday after that needs to be changed and you think it is a benefit?

 

[doctornick]

Doctorrnick, When do you usually go to Disney? Because all of your posts about the benefits, only benefit the September crowd. Which is the time of year that every single kid in the United States is back to school and nobody at all is in Disney World.

I have gone all different times of year. Busy times, slow times, depends on the year.

But I'm not sure what you mean. If I'm going over Christmas or Spring Break and I can reserve TSMM before I ever walk into the park -- that's a benefit over having to rush at RD and be part of the stampede to get to the FP machines. And that's certainly true at busy times as well as slow. If Splash goes down and I can use that FP+ to go onto Space instead, that's a benefit any time of year. If I don't have to waste time walking to BTM to pick up a fastpass and then walk back 3 hours later to ride it (but, instead, can reserve the FP+ ahead of time from home or on my phone or at a centralized kiosk in the park), that's a benefit any ttime of year -- probably moreso in a busy time of year, so you are spending valuable time criss crossing the park.

Again I'm not going to suggest that FP+ is some perfect system or even that I prefer it. But pretending that it is all bad and has no potential benefits to guests is not reasonable either.

 

[Disneyfamily4]

I have gone all different times of year. Busy times, slow times, depends on the year.

But I'm not sure what you mean. If I'm going over Christmas or Spring Break and I can reserve TSMM before I ever walk into the park -- that's a benefit over having to rush at RD and be part of the stampede to get to the FP machines. And that's certainly true at busy times as well as slow. If Splash goes down and I can use that FP+ to go onto Space instead, that's a benefit any time of year. If I don't have to waste time walking to BTM to pick up a fastpass and then walk back 3 hours later to ride it (but, instead, can reserve the FP+ ahead of time from home or on my phone or at a centralized kiosk in the park), that's a benefit any ttime of year -- probably moreso in a busy time of year, so you are spending valuable time criss crossing the park.

It is not about reservations for rides, it is about limiting the reservations to 3. If Disney brought back legacy, I would be happy to back track here and there in order to go on 6 fast pass rides a day without waiting in any lines during spring break. I would then be able to leave a park if it was to crowded and park hop somewhere else at my convenience. But Not anymore with this new system.

Someone earlier argued that 3 is fine and enough, however, in an earlier post, that same person admitted they have no kids. Well I have 2 kids and 3 is not enough.

 

[doctornick]

It is not about reservations for rides, it is about limiting the reservations to 3. If Disney brought back legacy, I would be happy to back track here and there in order to go on 6 fast pass rides a day without waiting in any lines during spring break. I would then be able to leave a park if it was to crowded and park hop somewhere else at my convenience. But Not anymore with this new system.

Of course being able to access more FP in a day (and in different parks) is better for people who use that feature than not being able to do so. Have I ever suggested otherwise?

Again, I am saying that despite there being some clear and significant downsides to the FP+ system compared to paper FP, there is however some benefits. Anyone who thinks FP+ is only bad is simply being unreasonable. You can dislike the system and prefer paper FP (again, *I* would prefer paper FP to FP+, so I'm not advocating that FP+ is "better") while still recognizing that FP+ has certain features that are improvements over the previous system.

Personally, I'd really prefer a mix of both systems in an ideal world....

From FP+: some ability to reserve rides ahead of time, electronic fastpasses that you can schedule/change on your phone/table/computer/in park kiosk, being able to pick the specific time window for the fastpass

From paper FP: able to get as many fastpasses as available that day, using them in multiple parks in one day, being able to use on the same ride more than once in a day

I would love to see Disney tweak the system in the future to allow for some combination of the best of both systems.

 

[rioriz]

1. Being able to reserve times for rides ahead of time, allowing for people to get to the park "late" and still have FP+ in hand for TSMM or Soarin', etc.
2. Being able to change the time or attraction for a FP+ because (1) the time window doesn't work for you or (2) you missed your time
3. Being able to acquire FP+ without walking all over the park and having to "backtrack" to the ride when the window opens
4. Being notified on your phone that a ride is down during your FP+ window and being able to use that FP+ to go on any ride automatically

Now, you may argue that these positives don't make a difference to you and that's fine. But to pretend that FP+ offers no potential upside to guests is not reasonable.

I'm not saying that I like or prefer FP+ to paper FP (I don't), but you don't have to like it to recognize that there are aspects that would be beneficial to some guests or seen as improvements.

I go at all times and can totally see the benefits to the new FP system. Avoiding the TSMM rush alone is worth it!

 

[Disneyfamily4]

Of course being able to access more FP in a day (and in different parks) is better for people who use that feature than not being able to do so. Have I ever suggested otherwise?

Again, I am saying that despite there being some clear and significant downsides to the FP+ system compared to paper FP, there is however some benefits. Anyone who thinks FP+ is only bad is simply being unreasonable. You can dislike the system and prefer paper FP (again, *I* would prefer paper FP to FP+, so I'm not advocating that FP+ is "better") while still recognizing that FP+ has certain features that are improvements over the previous system.

Personally, I'd really prefer a mix of both systems in an ideal world....

From FP+: some ability to reserve rides ahead of time, electronic fastpasses that you can schedule/change on your phone/table/computer/in park kiosk, being able to pick the specific time window for the fastpass

From paper FP: able to get as many fastpasses as available that day, using them in multiple parks in one day, being able to use on the same ride more than once in a day

I would love to see Disney tweak the system in the future to allow for some combination of the best of both systems.

A simple solution or tweak to this system is to charge for fast passes. I know everyone will comment on this and hate it, but as bad as it sounds, separate the resorts. Value resorts get 3 fast passes, Moderate 5 and Luxury 7. Put the annual pass holders, who go there all the time, in the Moderate class with 5 passes. Everyone staying outside the resort, get 0, but they do have the option to buy 3, which will put them in the same class as the value resort guest.

Then give only the resort guests a chance to buy more. Make 2 extra passes available for purchase, but on a sliding scale. A value can only bounce up to the 5 Moderate resort guests get and Moderate can only buy two to move up to what the luxury resort guests get.

Everyone would be happy. Disney would get more money. Guests who don't like the limit can buy more. People who love only having 3 can pay nothing and be happy for what they got.

I know people will complain about the lines, but if you tweak the system and then allow park hopping, I think things will go back to normal.

 

[Disneyfamily4]

Here is an interesting read from Frommers.


http://www.frommers.com/community/b...y-world-but-pre-planning-burden-will-increase

 

[Lord_Vader]

Does anyone else hate how this new FP+ "benefit" has now put the onus on guests by making them responsible for more efficiently managing how many attractions they ride instead of WDW just .. I don't know .. ADDING MORE RIDES. Those of us who knew how to effectively use the old system got around the parks just fine. I understand what they're selling, but I'm not buying it. Note .. I do think the integration of all of your tickets and cards into a MB is a good thing tho.

I am of the opinion that the onus has always been on the guest to effectively use their time. Disney is simply trying to make the process more accessible to learn over time but their planning tools are still lacking for the most part. MDE is getting better each update, at least for the iPhone. Hopefully MDE will be enhanced to include AP and offsite guests advance planning capabilities that would enable much of the upfront learning curve to be done in advance and not the day of.

Adding more rides is a given, TDO should be adding a ride of some kind every other year in each park whether it is a C, D or E ticket experience.

 

[Fractal514]

A simple solution or tweak to this system is to charge for fast passes. I know everyone will comment on this and hate it, but as bad as it sounds, separate the resorts. Value resorts get 3 fast passes, Moderate 5 and Luxury 7. Put the annual pass holders, who go there all the time, in the Moderate class with 5 passes. Everyone staying outside the resort, get 0, but they do have the option to buy 3, which will put them in the same class as the value resort guest.

Then give only the resort guests a chance to buy more. Make 2 extra passes available for purchase, but on a sliding scale. A value can only bounce up to the 5 Moderate resort guests get and Moderate can only buy two to move up to what the luxury resort guests get.

Everyone would be happy. Disney would get more money. Guests who don't like the limit can buy more. People who love only having 3 can pay nothing and be happy for what they got.

I know people will complain about the lines, but if you tweak the system and then allow park hopping, I think things will go back to normal.

I get where you are coming from, but I think that you are really only looking it from your own perspective, at least based on what you're written. If they were to charge for FP, there would be even more of a backlash than there is for the current change in system. Disney can't win 100% of the time in changing the system because there will always be people who preferred the old system to the new.

As for the aspect of spontaneity, I think you're making a pretty big assumption when you say that "everyone who goes on vacation likes the spontaneity of being on vacation." I disagree with this entirely. There are some who like being on vacation because they don't have to follow a schedule or plan their day. There are some who like to be on vacation and know what they've got in store so they can get excited and make sure they hit each thing they want to hit. In both cases it's about not being stressed, and that is the thing that I think people universally desire in a vacation. The problem with that is that some folks get stressed if they DON'T have a plan to see everything and some people get stressed if they HAVE to plan everything.

I've posted in other threads that I think people have to make a choice, either plan your trip in advance and get to make the best use of FP+ at the expense of spontaneity, or maintain spontaneity at the expense of taking advantage of FP+. I realize that everyone wants to have their cake and eat it to, but it seems like Disney is saying you can't.

 

[Lord_Vader]

A simple solution or tweak to this system is to charge for fast passes. I know everyone will comment on this and hate it, but as bad as it sounds, separate the resorts. Value resorts get 3 fast passes, Moderate 5 and Luxury 7. Put the annual pass holders, who go there all the time, in the Moderate class with 5 passes. Everyone staying outside the resort, get 0, but they do have the option to buy 3, which will put them in the same class as the value resort guest.

Then give only the resort guests a chance to buy more. Make 2 extra passes available for purchase, but on a sliding scale. A value can only bounce up to the 5 Moderate resort guests get and Moderate can only buy two to move up to what the luxury resort guests get.

Everyone would be happy. Disney would get more money. Guests who don't like the limit can buy more. People who love only having 3 can pay nothing and be happy for what they got.

I know people will complain about the lines, but if you tweak the system and then allow park hopping, I think things will go back to normal.

A system like this will work only if there are enough attractions to support the number of FP+ reservations you are selling. Think guests are mad about them now, wait unitl they purchase additional allocations and then are told there are none left to reserve because they are gone.

 

[bugsbunny]

So how does this system stop line jumpers? With the old FP system, you had to show your FPs to get into the FP line. But when you got to the boarding area, they were collected so you couldn't line jump.

With the new FP+, couldn't I just enter Stand By and jump over into the FP+ line? Do they check again at the boarding area?

 

[doctornick]

Adding more rides is a given, TDO should be adding a ride of some kind every other year in each park whether it is a C, D or E ticket experience.

Agreed. I personally like the schedule of eachpark getting a new ride every other year on average. That way, you should be getting ~ 2 new rides a year in WDW and something opening up more or less every year. They don't all have to be E-tickets either, I'd be fine with 25% being E-tickets as long as the rest are enjoyable for what they are.

 

[bugsbunny]

So how does this system stop line jumpers? With the old FP system, you had to show your FPs to get into the FP line. But when you got to the boarding area, they were collected so you couldn't line jump.

With the new FP+, couldn't I just enter Stand By and jump over into the FP+ line? Do they check again at the boarding area?

Nevermind, I found the answer I was looking for. So they are checking TWICE for the bands. WOW!

 

[Disneyfamily4]

So how does this system stop line jumpers? With the old FP system, you had to show your FPs to get into the FP line. But when you got to the boarding area, they were collected so you couldn't line jump.

With the new FP+, couldn't I just enter Stand By and jump over into the FP+ line? Do they check again at the boarding area?

From what people have told me, the line jumpers is what is partially to blame for the long waits in fast pass lines. My brother was just there a few weeks ago and he said he watched about 5 teenagers jump over not realizing they have to swipe their bands again. When it didnt register, they actually sat their and complained saying it worked to enter the line and blamed it on a glitch. He said he watched that occur on a lot of rides, but he never once seen a cast member give in which is good. But it definetly slows down a line though.

 

[bugsbunny]

1. Being able to reserve times for rides ahead of time, allowing for people to get to the park "late" and still have FP+ in hand for TSMM or Soarin', etc.
2. Being able to change the time or attraction for a FP+ because (1) the time window doesn't work for you or (2) you missed your time
3. Being able to acquire FP+ without walking all over the park and having to "backtrack" to the ride when the window opens
4. Being notified on your phone that a ride is down during your FP+ window and being able to use that FP+ to go on any ride automatically

Now, you may argue that these positives don't make a difference to you and that's fine. But to pretend that FP+ offers no potential upside to guests is not reasonable.

I'm not saying that I like or prefer FP+ to paper FP (I don't), but you don't have to like it to recognize that there are aspects that would be beneficial to some guests or seen as improvements.

I hear ya, but really, look how much work is going into this vacation. We are all WDW dorks here and know the ins and outs. Joe Public, not so much. Look how many people have smart phones and are clearly not smart enough to do anything with them other than text, talk, and look at kicks to the groin videos on YouTube.

 

[Redhawk]

Nevermind, I found the answer I was looking for. So they are checking TWICE for the bands. WOW!

Yes, just like they did for paper FP, basically at the same checkpoints as before.