Lines at the FP+ entrances

[doctornick]

I know it is only an assumption on my end, but logically, I think it is safe to assume the majority of guests will hate this system.

Disney has peak seasons and off-peak seasons. During off peak seasons, the park is so empty, Disney has to lure people in with free dining promotions and things like that.

During peak season, the park is at the most crowded. These people are considered the "Majority". And the majority would rather have the paper system to get as many fast passes as they desire, rather than being limited to 3 only at one park.

The only peak season guest who will say they like the limit of 3, is really just the off peak season person, who is lying and saying they go during the peak season just to win an argument to dispel this theory.

You are operating under the assumption that the "majority" of people would "get as many fastpasses as they desire". The reality is that during those peak times, a lot fo the guests would get only a few or no fastpasses because they did not know about or understand the system. Those guestsw oudl simply wait in standby, ride fewer rides and not have a good time.

Now, in theory, with Disney advertising FP+ so much and integrating it to booking the vacation (including stuff like sending out pamphlets that direct you to the website and flashdrives to load up training), it's possible that these guests will at least book their FP+ and be "wowed" by actually getting on a ride quicker than they would have otherwise. And if they don't use FP+, well, no biggie -- they weren't using paper FP anyway.

Basically, I think you are operating under the fallacy that the person who gets 7-12 FPs a day and would enver wait more than 30 minutes for a ride, etc is a typical Disney guest. They absolutely are not. They are the exception, a small percentage of the guests in the park. In an echo chamber like this message board, it's easy to think that is a typical person, but we are a cross section of very knowledgable guests who understand the ins and outs of Disney far better than most visitors. Most guests used 2 or fewer FP in a day, so getting 3 is an improvement, not a loss.

 

[janoimagine]

We will take it slow just like when we transitioned you from reel to reel to CD's.

A lot of the reel to reel's I had were much better quality than CD's ... but that all depended on the master source.

 

[Tom Morrow]

You are operating under the assumption that the "majority" of people would "get as many fastpasses as they desire". The reality is that during those peak times, a lot fo the guests would get only a few or no fastpasses because they did not know about or understand the system. Those guestsw oudl simply wait in standby, ride fewer rides and not have a good time.

Now, in theory, with Disney advertising FP+ so much and integrating it to booking the vacation (including stuff like sending out pamphlets that direct you to the website and flashdrives to load up training), it's possible that these guests will at least book their FP+ and be "wowed" by actually getting on a ride quicker than they would have otherwise. And if they don't use FP+, well, no biggie -- they weren't using paper FP anyway.

Basically, I think you are operating under the fallacy that the person who gets 7-12 FPs a day and would enver wait more than 30 minutes for a ride, etc is a typical Disney guest. They absolutely are not. They are the exception, a small percentage of the guests in the park. In an echo chamber like this message board, it's easy to think that is a typical person, but we are a cross section of very knowledgable guests who understand the ins and outs of Disney far better than most visitors. Most guests used 2 or fewer FP in a day, so getting 3 is an improvement, not a loss.

Bingo, the average guest really did use 3 Fastpasses or less. And even if you were really savvy and maximized your potential Fastpass usage, think of how much time you spent circumnavigating the park to accomplish that? A major reason behind limiting the number of Fastpasses given out was to have better control over the management of crowds and lines, meaning shorter standby wait times. And there has been a reduction in the standby wait times. Even when a wait time is still posting close to what it was before, keep in mind that they are still tweaking the numbers as well as using the old line demand statistics to gauge the wait time. In other words, they are still posting what the wait time would be when a line is at a certain point with the OLD Fastpass system, where you would have non-stop heavy demand. In reality, the actual time spent in the standby lines has now decreased due to limiting the number of Fastpasses given out.

Having said that, increasing to 4 per day probably wouldn't hurt, and the ability to park hop is sorely needed.

 

[Voxel]

Bingo, the average guest really did use 3 Fastpasses or less. And even if you were really savvy and maximized your potential Fastpass usage, think of how much time you spent circumnavigating the park to accomplish that? A major reason behind limiting the number of Fastpasses given out was to have better control over the management of crowds and lines, meaning shorter standby wait times. And there has been a reduction in the standby wait times. Even when a wait time is still posting close to what it was before, keep in mind that they are still tweaking the numbers as well as using the old line demand statistics to gauge the wait time. In other words, they are still posting what the wait time would be when a line is at a certain point with the OLD Fastpass system, where you would have non-stop heavy demand. In reality, the actual time spent in the standby lines has now decreased due to limiting the number of Fastpasses given out.

Having said that, increasing to 4 per day probably wouldn't hurt, and the ability to park hop is sorely needed.

Its will be easy to increase and this is just the beginning phase. Remember when Fastpasses where first introduced a guest could only hold one ticket at a time. Also if we had been paying attention we would have seen FP+ coming. In 2007 Disney Filed a Patent that was approved that would allow guest to book FP's from their hotel room tv and their cell phone via tech message.

 

[DManRightHere]

What if the magicband is a stepping stone to something better.

Imagine a visual camera system around the front gate and throughout the park that uses the magicband positioning system to determine what guests had snuck in the front gate. This would let guests walk right in the front gate without scanning anything. Same thing for using actual fastpasses. Paying for stuff would be much more difficult to do, but I could also see this method beig used on buses too. Ex charging non resort guests for transportation.

The mymagic+ is upgradeable. That is probably the best use for it from a business standpoint.

 

[Disneyfamily4]

Bingo, the average guest really did use 3 Fastpasses or less. And even if you were really savvy and maximized your potential Fastpass usage, think of how much time you spent circumnavigating the park to accomplish that? A major reason behind limiting the number of Fastpasses given out was to have better control over the management of crowds and lines, meaning shorter standby wait times. And there has been a reduction in the standby wait times. Even when a wait time is still posting close to what it was before, keep in mind that they are still tweaking the numbers as well as using the old line demand statistics to gauge the wait time. In other words, they are still posting what the wait time would be when a line is at a certain point with the OLD Fastpass system, where you would have non-stop heavy demand. In reality, the actual time spent in the standby lines has now decreased due to limiting the number of Fastpasses given out.

Having said that, increasing to 4 per day probably wouldn't hurt, and the ability to park hop is sorely needed.

You are operating under the assumption that the "majority" of people would "get as many fastpasses as they desire". The reality is that during those peak times, a lot fo the guests would get only a few or no fastpasses because they did not know about or understand the system. Those guestsw oudl simply wait in standby, ride fewer rides and not have a good time.

Now, in theory, with Disney advertising FP+ so much and integrating it to booking the vacation (including stuff like sending out pamphlets that direct you to the website and flashdrives to load up training), it's possible that these guests will at least book their FP+ and be "wowed" by actually getting on a ride quicker than they would have otherwise. And if they don't use FP+, well, no biggie -- they weren't using paper FP anyway.

Basically, I think you are operating under the fallacy that the person who gets 7-12 FPs a day and would enver wait more than 30 minutes for a ride, etc is a typical Disney guest. They absolutely are not. They are the exception, a small percentage of the guests in the park. In an echo chamber like this message board, it's easy to think that is a typical person, but we are a cross section of very knowledgable guests who understand the ins and outs of Disney far better than most visitors. Most guests used 2 or fewer FP in a day, so getting 3 is an improvement, not a loss.

And u only think this because Disney says so? If you ever went to Disney during peak season, you would know Disney is not accurately reporting the numbers. What if the poll, disney claimed that was conducted, showed 7 fast passes per day were being used by people. Do you actually think the new fast pass + would give out 7 per day. The fact is, disney only wanted to give out 3 passes and watered down "polls" to support their plan. You are wrongly assuming that during peak season, people didn't know, nor care about fast passes and chose to wait in 225 minute lines. If you were there you would know, the majority knew all about fast passes and used way more than 3.

 

[hpyhnt 1000]

Bingo, the average guest really did use 3 Fastpasses or less. And even if you were really savvy and maximized your potential Fastpass usage, think of how much time you spent circumnavigating the park to accomplish that? A major reason behind limiting the number of Fastpasses given out was to have better control over the management of crowds and lines, meaning shorter standby wait times. And there has been a reduction in the standby wait times. Even when a wait time is still posting close to what it was before, keep in mind that they are still tweaking the numbers as well as using the old line demand statistics to gauge the wait time. In other words, they are still posting what the wait time would be when a line is at a certain point with the OLD Fastpass system, where you would have non-stop heavy demand. In reality, the actual time spent in the standby lines has now decreased due to limiting the number of Fastpasses given out.

Having said that, increasing to 4 per day probably wouldn't hurt, and the ability to park hop is sorely needed.

Not being able to schedule FPs for different parks is definitely a real annoyance. As for the increasing to 4 per day, lets face it, the MK is the only park where it would be of use. For Epcot and AK (and in some ways DHS) its already tough to get to 3 worthwhile FP options, let alone 4 (which speaks again to the limited attraction offerings at those parks).

 

[Tom Morrow]

And u only think this because Disney says so? If you ever went to Disney during peak season, you would know Disney is not accurately reporting the numbers. What if the poll, disney claimed that was conducted, showed 7 fast passes per day were being used by people. Do you actually think the new fast pass + would give out 7 per day. The fact is, disney only wanted to give out 3 passes and watered down "polls" to support their plan. You are wrongly assuming that during peak season, people didn't know, nor care about fast passes and chose to wait in 225 minute lines. If you were there you would know, the majority knew all about fast passes and used way more than 3.

No. You are wrong for assuming the average, or, vast majority of guests were savvy enough to get more than 2-3 Fastpasses per day.

Yes, I'm aware that that wasn't the only reason Disney decided on 3 FP+ selections - but I also covered that in my post. Less Fastpasses = shorter, faster moving standby lines and more crowd control.

 

[Mr Bill]

And u only think this because Disney says so? If you ever went to Disney during peak season, you would know Disney is not accurately reporting the numbers. What if the poll, disney claimed that was conducted, showed 7 fast passes per day were being used by people. Do you actually think the new fast pass + would give out 7 per day. The fact is, disney only wanted to give out 3 passes and watered down "polls" to support their plan. You are wrongly assuming that during peak season, people didn't know, nor care about fast passes and chose to wait in 225 minute lines. If you were there you would know, the majority knew all about fast passes and used way more than 3.

No polls needed, just the raw data of how many fastpasses were distributed in a day (a number Disney already knows) divided by the number of guests in the park that day (a number Disney already knows). I'll take that over "It's wrong because wrong".

If Disney was actually watering down the number of FastPasses the average guest could use in a day, why did they add FP+ availability to 9 attractions in the Magic Kingdom alone? Were that many people clamoring to skip the standby line at Monsters Inc. Laugh Floor?

 

[Disneyfamily4]

No polls needed, just the raw data of how many fastpasses were distributed in a day (a number Disney already knows) divided by the number of guests in the park that day (a number Disney already knows). I'll take that over "It's wrong because wrong".

If Disney was actually watering down the number of FastPasses the average guest could use in a day, why did they add FP+ availability to 9 attractions in the Magic Kingdom alone? Were that many people clamoring to skip the standby line at Monsters Inc. Laugh Floor?

If disney used raw data from off peak season and then added that number to raw data from peak season, then we have watered down numbers. I went to disney in September and never got a fast pass. Why?, because the wait times were 10-20 minutes if that. In April I used 7 day. To get an accurate number of fast passes used, disney should throw out all the data from off peak season and only find the numbers for holidays and peak season.

 

[Disneyfamily4]

For example during off peak season, let's pretend 10,000 people used 1000 passes. Per person that is less than one per person. Then say in the peak season 10,000 people used 70,000. That is a little more than 6 per person. Add in both sets of Data and we have a watered down result of 20,000 people using 80,000 passes which equates to 4 per person.

 

[doctornick]

You are wrongly assuming that during peak season, people didn't know, nor care about fast passes and chose to wait in 225 minute lines. If you were there you would know, the majority knew all about fast passes and used way more than 3.

You do realize that when TSSM or Soarin' or whatever gets a 225 minute wait, it's because lots of people are waiting in the line. Do you think that those people simply said "oh, I know I can get a FP for this, but instead I'll just waste a couple of hours in line"? Or did they (1) not understand or know about FP or (2) know about it, but not arrive early enough to get any or (3) inefficiently got one for Star Tours instead and decided to wait in line for TSSM because they were there rather than wait for their FP window to open or (4) decide it wasn't worth it to get a FP and then have to come back to the ride when the window opened so they just would "ride it now while they are there". The reality is that FP superusers who get 7-12 FP a day and never waited long for any rides are an extremely small portion of guests.

I love how people act like no one would be foolish enough to waste their time in these massive lines. But if that were true -- there would be no wait! Lots of people just wait because that is what they are used to in an amusement park.

I'll provide a personal anecdote to illustrate. The first time I was in WDW after TSMM opened, I only had a 1/2 day in DHS in the afternoon after DAK (it was a three day trip in early December (a low season)). I was well versed in FP already. But I naively figured "when I get to DHS, I'll go right to TSMM and pull a fastpass for it". Got there sometime around 2-4pm and was shocked to see that there were no passes available. The wait was already over 2 hours. My wife didn't want to wait, so we blew it off. She ended up leaving DHS before close and I stuck around and waited -- yes, for something like 1.5 to 2 hours even though it was a non busy time of year because I wanted to ride this new ride. Sometimes, you are just willing to wait.

And that's me, a well versed person (not well versed enough, unfortunately, at the time). Tons of people go and don't have the first clue about FP. Don't know it's free, don't know how to get them, don't realize the timesaving benefit. I've helped a lot of people plan for Disney and always emphasize how important it is to pull FP early and often; but when I debrief them after the trip, virtually all of the first time visitors report using 1 or 2 a day, at least at first (people usually use them more by the end of longer trips). I really can't can't emphasize enough how much you overestimate the number and degree to which people use fastpasses. People who go between Christmas and NEw Years or over Spring Break, etc -- especially people who are unfamiliar with WDW -- really do enter the parks and only ride 3-5 rides in a day. And have a miserable vacation. It's insane to me for that to happen, but it does. For many people, if they could book 3 rides ahead of time, it will be a welcome benefit.

 

[Lord_Vader]

And u only think this because Disney says so? If you ever went to Disney during peak season, you would know Disney is not accurately reporting the numbers. What if the poll, disney claimed that was conducted, showed 7 fast passes per day were being used by people. Do you actually think the new fast pass + would give out 7 per day. The fact is, disney only wanted to give out 3 passes and watered down "polls" to support their plan. You are wrongly assuming that during peak season, people didn't know, nor care about fast passes and chose to wait in 225 minute lines. If you were there you would know, the majority knew all about fast passes and used way more than 3.

If the number of legacy FP per guest was anywhere close to seven, the standby lines in the legacy FP attractions would have gone down dramatically with the introduction of FP+ as guests are now limited to 3 and can no longer get a second FP for any attraction (prescheduled) which would result in far few guests in the FP queues.

 

[Lord_Vader]

During Christmas week we used to average around 3-4 FP per day before the rides we wanted to use FP on were exhausted, especially DHS/EC. AK was alway easy to work out 4-5 and MK 5-6 on a great day, 4-5 usually. Limiting us to 3/day at one park was a great irritant to me personally but we worked around it, even worked around the single park issue by scheduling ours in the late afternoon when lines are longest anyway...

 

[Redhawk]

Tons of people go and don't have the first clue about FP. Don't know it's free, don't know how to get them, don't realize the timesaving benefit. I've helped a lot of people plan for Disney and always emphasize how important it is to pull FP early and often. ... For many people, if they could book 3 rides ahead of time, it will be a welcome benefit.

I agree that many many guests totally overlooked paper FPs (for many various reasons) and did not use them to best or even good advantage. So they stood in long lines. Some had a fine time anyway, others went home talking about long lines and how they only got on 3-4 rides. Those folks may have had an ok time but weren't in any hurry to return.

My anecdote is from earlier this month (January 2014), when the parks weren't very crowded. In the Magic Kingdom you could use FP+ as well as still get paper FPs. (I got to double-dip and loved that!) Around 5:30 p.m. I walked up to Buzz (for which I had a FP+) and saw a long line of people in a 50-60 minute standby line. Yet mere feet away were the FP machines giving FPs with return times that were only 20-30 minutes from the current time! So I grabbed a paper FP and rode Buzz with my FP+ reservation, went on TTA, then walked right onto Buzz again using the paper FP, of course after grabbing another paper FP as soon as possible.

I saw people standing in that long standby line looking miserable yet not comprehending they could walk over and get a paper FP, go do something else nearby (somewhere they could sit down, like Laugh Floor or -- god help them -- Stitch), and skip the whole line just as they watched me doing. I rode 3 times in about 75 minutes and still made it to Main Street for a good spot to watch the Electrical Parade at 7 p.m.

Seriously, many Disney guests simply did not know how to use paper FPs.

And did I mention that I pulled one last Buzz paper FP to keep for a souvenir?

 

[asialeigh]

Not sure what the reasons are but when I used the kiosk this past week I was told the system requires that I make 3 selections, that I couldn't make just one or two. I felt that at EPCOT there was only a couple of attractions that I was 10 interested in riding and that 2) actually needed a FP.

I also have to agree that the FP kiosk touch screens were crap. You had to tap it a few times to take. The CMs are helpful but what happens many times is that you have several family members standing around a kiosk trying to decide what attractions they want to do..

At AK I seen lines for the kiosk (15 people). The line was not moving very fast. Also besides MK you have to go deep inside the park to reach a kiosk. What I noticed is there are not many signs directing you to the kiosk location.

I could be wrong ( most assuredly) but I didn't see on the kiosk computer for any choices for changing the language. Can anybody confirm this? I am sure English is the default language but can you change it?

SO now that I finally experienced FP+ and MME, how do I feel about it? As many have said I had no problems with the bands themselves and their performance. But its relatively low tech I don't see how it could be botched. We had many issues with the app. it became relatively useless for us in the parks. The system overall? I don't see how it was needed. Most of the features are not huge improvements over the KTTW cards. I am sure there were some back of house upgrades that were needed badly but how could so much in park infrastructure, additional CMs needed to implement, educate and apply the system make it fiscally plausible? I tried to take notice of guest using their MB to pay for merch etc. Noticed very few. Maybe just one or two. Using the band for dining? The CM swiped the band but stiff went in the "back" to get the receipt and do whatever. Still had to sign. Didn't seem to save any time what so ever.

I don't think the system is a failure, I just don't see it as being an upgrade or even necessary. Its like we did this because we could. For me it reduced my experience, I was limited to how many FP's I could get, for which rides I could get them for and which parks I could get them for. For me it isn't about weather the system works for practical purposes but if it works for my touring of the parks. It didn't.

@ParentsOf4 and I both thought there were going to be winners and losers with the system. What I am wondering now is who are these winners? Those who just are in favor of the system. I stayed on property and certainly didn't feel I was somehow a big winner. Because of being a CM guest I couldn't participate in making my selections 60 days out, but I don't think that had any impact on my ability to score FP's. I think that it had to do with light to moderate crowd levels due to the time of year. There maybe winners and losers when it is peak season and the ability to score FP's become more restrictive, but I don't see how anyone can feel this system is something that enhances their experience all that much. I can think of one. You can prebook them and get to sleep in.....wow! That maybe great for some people. I get up the same time everyday no matter what day it is. So if you like to sleep in congrats! you are the big winner in the FP+ sweepstake!

I'm not sure about the other parks but you can set up FP+ in Town Square theater right when you enter the park. And there are signs directing you to each FP+ set up location. Also there aren't any language changing options on the kiosks. They are trying to add more foreign language speaking CMs at each location though to assist with any confusion.

 

[Club34]

Whats your thoughts?

Whats my thought? This system absolutely sucks. I have not really seen any positives for the guest. I'll have an open mind but for the life of me I cannot think of one positive. Early verdict is a complete and utter failure. Reports are now that standby lines for everything are a nightmare.

 

[Andyjshort]

Last August I don't think we ever used more than 2 fastpasses a day we just hit the parks early, then when the queues built up used the APP to check where the shortest queues were and headed over to those rides.

Occasionally one of us ran ahead to grab a fast pass ie. Soarin and Everest, but some rides we just never got to do like Maelstrom because the return times were about 3 hours away and we didn't want to commit to being back there in 3 hours. If I could have scheduled the fastpass in advance then walked over and done that part of the park then. Not being able to schedule Soarin, Test track and Maelstrom is a real pain though, most of the rest are walk on anyway.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Last August I don't think we ever used more than 2 fastpasses a day we just hit the parks early, then when the queues built up used the APP to check where the shortest queues were and headed over to those rides.

Occasionally one of us ran ahead to grab a fast pass ie. Soarin and Everest, but some rides we just never got to do like Maelstrom because the return times were about 3 hours away and we didn't want to commit to being back there in 3 hours. If I could have scheduled the fastpass in advance then walked over and done that part of the park then. Not being able to schedule Soarin, Test track and Maelstrom is a real pain though, most of the rest are walk on anyway.

Being able to make these reservations day of, from your phone or in park kiosk and using the normal distribution rules is a more equitable system than what's currently in place. I have yet to hear a compelling argument to the contrary.

 

[Fractal514]

If a person spends more money for the park hopper, People who park hop to go on the best rides available should be the least of Disney's worries. After all, in their eyes, for a 10-day park hopper price compared to just the base ticket, the person who pays more, then has paid for their right to do so.

If you accept that premise, do you also accept that people staying on property are entitled to more FP+ or earlier access?

The thing I don't know is whether or not Park Hopping is the norm or the deviant. If most people park hop, and Disney is trying to make most people happy, then they should allow for it. If most people do NOT park hop, but rather hit only one park in a day, then Disney will want to appease those individuals.

I mean, it is similar to the AP debate, in that it's all in how you look at it. Some people think APers pay a premium, others actually see it as a discount when you look at the cost per admission to a park over the year. Some people might look at park hopping and say, look I paid extra, I deserve more flexibility in my FP+ selections, but someone else might say, well, in gaining admission to two parks for a drastically reduced price, you actually saved money with the Park Hopper and therefore are NOT entitled to anything extra, since you already got a financial savings. Do you see the logic there?