Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[DisneyHead123]

Your McDonalds example doesn’t work because no one has paid to enter McDonalds. If everyone paid a hundred bucks to enter a McDonalds buffet and then an arbitrary group of those guests were forced to wait until all the desirable food had been consumed before serving themselves, your analogy might work.

Also, I doubt many folks have the deep emotional attachment to McDonalds that folks on these boards have to WDW.

Regarding a payment up front - I guess you could compare it to the offerings on a subscription service then - maybe I want Netflix or Disney+ to make more of X or Y show.

I see what you’re saying that Disney fans and stans certainly view it as more than “just a business” though. That’s not intuitive to me - I love Disney but I expect a pretty capitalistic model to apply to them, and I don’t hold that against them. My view might be becoming less common as consumer-company relationships shift. This next generation might view things differently. Companies are seen as not just supplying a product but making a statement about which consumers they like the best through their offerings.

 

[crazy4disney]

I am willing to admit I'm probably nuts.

I think we all agree there. Capacity is everything. It's probably the number one problem in the parks. (Except, that is, for the overall dumbing down, the artistic and aesthetic decline, oh and screenz.)

I have acknowledged (in this thread) that FP, while not ideal and not my preference, was perhaps the favorite for most guests.

G+ sucks. Even Disney agrees.

I knew that ratio might trigger some, LOL. Seriously, though, is absolute wait time the only measure of a park experience? Is "wait" so inherently bad that less of it is always better? Isn't it conceivable that time could be a tradeoff for comfort? What if you could be guaranteed a 10-minute wait for any attraction but you had to be locked in a coffin upside down for the duration of your wait. Would you do it?

I can honestly say ive never sat down after a day and said to myself how long did we wait in lines. As ive stated ive pretty mych ridden all rides w FP utilized DAS when need be and only entered a line when wait was less than 20-25 minutes. I would trade off a FP that i had but wait was say only 20 minutes. Would check to see what else was available and switch out. Genie doesnt allow any of that for most part. If anything imo FP have you more flexibility than Genie does after using it once literally same exact time of year.
And to answer your rhetorical ? Is it 10 minutes 1 time only or 10 min for each ride? lol

 

[crazy4disney]

Once you are stuck making park pass reservations i just dont understand why people are still adamant against FP. You are now stuck at a park w most likely dining reservations tied to that yet have no clue when you can ride rides where as FP allowed you 3 choices at ANY time you wanted and being able to book them at the comfort of your own home. And then add on once in the parks and those going w younger kids avoiding some of the major major attractions. Those literally were so easy to get and basically walk on. Either way by 1130 the latest you could be looking at your 4th ride. With Genie you may be just looking at picking your 2nd attraction which is gonna be either hours out or something you are just grabbing for the sake of not waiting. How anyone can enjoy Genie is beyond me and the entire stacking logic is literally the same as FP. Book 3 FP for later in the day. If you stack at 7am 11am 1pm to enter park at say 2pm 2pm to ride your 1st attraction its basically same thing.

 

[lazyboy97o]

That’s all great, but people don’t want to stand in long lines at WDW when there are so many other things to do. Either Disney figures out how to make that work or it’s going to lose a lot of people. Maybe they don’t care, but there must be some reason they’re making changes to Genie+ instead of simply abandoning it.

Which is why you build capacity and shape operations to support minimal waits. They also don’t have the capacity for people to do other things. The world’s busiest theme park has less dining capacity than it did 30 years ago along with abandoned and under utilized retail and attraction space.

They also made changes to FastPass+, including getting rid of it.

 

[lazyboy97o]

So you rather wait twice as long bc the line “moves” thats just downright nuts & im not looking for an argument with that statement.

It’s not nuts. It’s true and you have demonstrated it’s truth by repeatedly conflating your perception of no waiting for FastPass+ with actually not waiting. How people wait is important.

Genie stinks. Plain & simple FP may not have been perfect but it worked way better than Genie & was wayyyyy less stressful

It worked for you and that was only possible because it did not work for others.

You sadly hit the nail on head tho “mentally” you think a 40 min wait us better than a 20 min wait but 20 minutes longer even 10 min longer is in fact longer! So to suggest people rather wait in lines longer bc it is moving to me is crazy. 6-7 rides at say 10-15 extra is min hour to 1.5 hours extra in line during a day bc its moving. Good luck convincing me people would choose that over less time in line along w a skip the line system

There is no way to scale less waiting to the majority of visitors using a virtual queue or reservation system. You just push it to other things like retail and dining. This is what happened at Volcano Bay.

 

[crazy4disney]

It’s not nuts. It’s true and you have demonstrated it’s truth by repeatedly conflating your perception of no waiting for FastPass+ with actually not waiting. How people wait is important.

It worked for you and that was only possible because it did not work for others.

There is no way to scale less waiting to the majority of visitors using a virtual queue or reservation system. You just push it to other things like retail and dining. This is what happened at Volcano Bay.

Well it didnt only work for me it worked for countless others as well. As stated by “insiders” the main reason it was switched other than the obvious they wanted ti charge for it was the planning aspect now you dont plan you pay and i assure you. Genie gives you LESS attractions and options than FP ever did. So who is it working for? Lines are still there they didnt go away. Guests are ticked off so much Disney has admitted failure by looking to change this already. It regards to waiting listen obviously we all know FP lanes wasnt entering and just walking onto a ride but it pretty much was just that. How long did anyone really wait using those lines outside of ride breakdowns while waiting? So feel free to wait twice and as long bc you are constantly moving. Ill live in reality and choose to wait less time in ANY line even if it meant standing still or stop and go etc. 20 min vs 40 minutes is still saving me 20 minutes of waiting. No matter how you want to twist and turn it. Just like everyone does their vacation differently people gonna have their thoughtson this as well but fact remains. Why would anyone willingly choose to wait longer is beyond me… but hey thats just my preference

 

[lazyboy97o]

Well it didnt only work for me it worked for countless others as well. As stated by “insiders” the main reason it was switched other than the obvious they wanted ti charge for it was the planning aspect now you dont plan you pay and i assure you. Genie gives you LESS attractions and options than FP ever did. So who is it working for? Lines are still there they didnt go away. Guests are ticked off so much Disney has admitted failure by looking to change this already. It regards to waiting listen obviously we all know FP lanes wasnt entering and just walking onto a ride but it pretty much was just that. How long did anyone really wait using those lines outside of ride breakdowns while waiting? So feel free to wait twice and as long bc you are constantly moving. Ill live in reality and choose to wait less time in ANY line even if it meant standing still or stop and go etc. 20 min vs 40 minutes is still saving me 20 minutes of waiting. No matter how you want to twist and turn it. Just like everyone does their vacation differently people gonna have their thoughtson this as well but fact remains. Why would anyone willingly choose to wait longer is beyond me… but hey thats just my preference

I’m not defending Genie+.

It’s not a question of waiting 20 minutes or 40 minutes. It becomes a question of waiting 20+10+15 minutes versus waiting 40 minutes. You have to look beyond your isolated experiences across an entire day and across multiple users.

 

[Chi84]

Well it didnt only work for me it worked for countless others as well. As stated by “insiders” the main reason it was switched other than the obvious they wanted ti charge for it was the planning aspect now you dont plan you pay and i assure you. Genie gives you LESS attractions and options than FP ever did. So who is it working for? Lines are still there they didnt go away. Guests are ticked off so much Disney has admitted failure by looking to change this already. It regards to waiting listen obviously we all know FP lanes wasnt entering and just walking onto a ride but it pretty much was just that. How long did anyone really wait using those lines outside of ride breakdowns while waiting? So feel free to wait twice and as long bc you are constantly moving. Ill live in reality and choose to wait less time in ANY line even if it meant standing still or stop and go etc. 20 min vs 40 minutes is still saving me 20 minutes of waiting. No matter how you want to twist and turn it. Just like everyone does their vacation differently people gonna have their thoughtson this as well but fact remains. Why would anyone willingly choose to wait longer is beyond me… but hey thats just my preference

You brought up a good point in one of your previous posts about rope drop not being possible with very young children. Disney has to consider the big picture when deciding on a line-skip system.

Yes, all standby would be the fairest system for people who are willing and able to stand in long lines in the hot sun all day. But adopting such a system would risk losing the parties with grandparents and very young children - those are the ones more likely to pay for the convenience of dessert party fireworks viewing or to drop $600+ at a character dinner at Storybook Dining Disney may be more concerned with keeping those guests than ensuring that people get to ride from open to close the way they do at Six Flags.

 

[floydbeatle]

My family and I tried Genie+ for the first time on Friday at EPCOT, and yesterday at Magic Kingdom. At EPCOT we got BG1 for Cosmic Rewind, used early entry for Test Track and then got a lightning lane for every remaining ride including Test Track, Rat, and FEA. Yesterday, we arrived at the Magic Kingdom around 3 and rode all the major attractions using Genie+ (We did not pay for 7DMT). I have less optimism for DHS, but so far, we have not "waited" in the standby lane once. It's a little painful to have to wait each and every time for a genie+, but so far its been working.

 

[GhostHost1000]

My family and I tried Genie+ for the first time on Friday at EPCOT, and yesterday at Magic Kingdom. At EPCOT we got BG1 for Cosmic Rewind, used early entry for Test Track and then got a lightning lane for every remaining ride including Test Track, Rat, and FEA. Yesterday, we arrived at the Magic Kingdom around 3 and rode all the major attractions using Genie+ (We did not pay for 7DMT). I have less optimism for DHS, but so far, we have not "waited" in the standby lane once. It's a little painful to have to wait each and every time for a genie+, but so far its been working.

it works based on its design but the design sucks and getting it to work how you really want and to have a less stressful day vs the previous system is impossible

 

[floydbeatle]

it works based on its design but the design sucks and getting it to work how you really want and to have a less stressful day vs the previous system is impossible

I couldn't agree more. The design is horrible and other than Genie+ the rest of the app is useless from what I can tell.

 

[lazyboy97o]

You brought up a good point in one of your previous posts about rope drop not being possible with very young children. Disney has to consider the big picture when deciding on a line-skip system.

Yes, all standby would be the fairest system for people who are willing and able to stand in long lines in the hot sun all day. But adopting such a system would risk losing the parties with grandparents and very young children - those are the ones more likely to pay for the convenience of dessert party fireworks viewing or to drop $600+ at a character dinner at Storybook Dining Disney may be more concerned with keeping those guests than ensuring that people get to ride from open to close the way they do at Six Flags.

So now you do want to discuss the bigger picture? And when did parents suddenly all stop complaining about how early young children wake up?

The way you satisfy the most guests is by providing flexibility. Pushing everyone towards the same limited offerings in the same limited window does not offer flexibility.

 

[donsullivan]

Do you know for a fact FP didnt work? Im genuinely curious where you are getting that info from & how you are making that statement because i truly dk anyone who really had issues using FP as a resort guest. 1st the argument was people didnt like planning (not saying that was or wasnt your stance) now we are saying the parks couldnt support FP anymore….

I can state as a fact (for me personally) that I was not a fan of FastPass+. As a local (I get that many here think we don't count) it was nearly impossible to get FP+ in advance on any of the major E-Ticket attractions for most of the era of FP+. Since we could only book 30 days in advance they were all long gone. It's the exact same issue with ADR's for popular restaurants since we don't have the advantage of check-in +10 resort guests have. As a result, while I do have the opportunity for standby I haven't ridden Mine Train and many others for years. I'm not willing to wait 70-90 minutes for a ride. Since non-resort guests make up on average at least 50% of guests in the parks on any given day, the old system severely limited the experience of 50% of the guests in the parks on any day.

While the new system (like anything this large and complex) needs some fine-tuning around the edges it puts nearly every guest on a much more level playing field. Resort guests get a few hours advance on stuff like ILL, most everything else is the same for everyone, even a day-guest. While the die-hard Fastness ninja's had the old system figured out, they hate change and don't want to give up what they had learned to 'optimize' to their advantage. I agree the new system is not perfect, there is absolutely no solution to this that will please everyone, it is not the death of the parks that many would like to profess.

 

[UNCgolf]

I agree the new system is not perfect, there is absolutely no solution to this that will please everyone, it is not the death of the parks that many would like to profess.

I don't know -- saying it's the death of the parks would be a bit melodramatic, but it's clearly a gigantic disaster for Disney that they're attempting to fix. I don't think there's any argument that the average guest prefers FP+ to Genie+ (and I wasn't a big fan of FP+), based on guest satisfaction numbers and the fact Disney is rushing to make changes.

 

[Chi84]

So now you do want to discuss the bigger picture? And when did parents suddenly all stop complaining about how early young children wake up?

The way you satisfy the most guests is by providing flexibility. Pushing everyone towards the same limited offerings in the same limited window does not offer flexibility.

I'm just suggesting that these are the issues confronting Disney when deciding on a system. It's not as simple as just satisfying the greatest number of guests - they have to consider the demographic they're going for.

I can assure you that Genie+ does not offer flexibility - far from it. And a pretty good number of Disney's guests prefer planning to the fly by the seat of your pants experience of Genie+. These guests aren't going to suck it up and deal with this fiasco; they'll simply stop coming. Maybe that's okay with Disney.

We switched our next family trip (9 guests) from WDW to a Royal Caribbean cruise. DH and I have a WDW trip planned for October so I'm watching to see if Disney comes up with a system that works for us. If not, we'll cancel and go somewhere else. Won't be the end of the world.

 

[crazy4disney]

I can state as a fact (for me personally) that I was not a fan of FastPass+. As a local (I get that many here think we don't count) it was nearly impossible to get FP+ in advance on any of the major E-Ticket attractions for most of the era of FP+. Since we could only book 30 days in advance they were all long gone. It's the exact same issue with ADR's for popular restaurants since we don't have the advantage of check-in +10 resort guests have. As a result, while I do have the opportunity for standby I haven't ridden Mine Train and many others for years. I'm not willing to wait 70-90 minutes for a ride. Since non-resort guests make up on average at least 50% of guests in the parks on any given day, the old system severely limited the experience of 50% of the guests in the parks on any day.

While the new system (like anything this large and complex) needs some fine-tuning around the edges it puts nearly every guest on a much more level playing field. Resort guests get a few hours advance on stuff like ILL, most everything else is the same for everyone, even a day-guest. While the die-hard Fastness ninja's had the old system figured out, they hate change and don't want to give up what they had learned to 'optimize' to their advantage. I agree the new system is not perfect, there is absolutely no solution to this that will please everyone, it is not the death of the parks that many would like to profess.

It is far from a death blow but they obviously are concerned… ive stated countless times FP definitely worked better for resort guest & even tho im a vacationer i dont discredit AP holdholders who are locals but ive also stated i know plenty who live in Fla and others who visit staying off property who have had luck and their luck is limited as opposed to a local who literally can visit any time they want. I find it hard ro believe that checking daily you were unable to get a FP for 7DMT yet others i know have had some success and others in this board as well. Not saying it is easy but also not impossible. Especially with the daily drops they would do that were pretty much well known. Again not denying your exoerience just saying its not impossible. No system is going to make everyone happy we know that but we do know this system most despise. And only fix us adding capacity which even if they admit is yearssssss away from happening. Also. Now you wanna ride 7DMT based on my November trip as you know you have to pay and as a non resort guest or AP im not sure if you can book before 9 & if that waa the case you still couldnt ride w no wait unless willing to pay….

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

So you rather wait twice as long bc the line “moves” thats just downright nuts & im not looking for an argument with that statement.

To some extent, yes.

I have generally opted to use whatever system WDW has in place. If WDW divides us into plebes and patricians, I'd prefer to be a patrician.

But I also find value in having a near equal playing field, and I find value is being able to enjoy all the details of WDW. Take the TSM queue, for example, I love all the little details of the toys along the way, I love searching for hidden Mickeys, and love taking in the sounds of WDW, the smiles, watching families having fun together.

I don't hate using my phone, but I also enjoy being able to put it away.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I'm just suggesting that these are the issues confronting Disney when deciding on a system. It's not as simple as just satisfying the greatest number of guests - they have to consider the demographic they're going for.

I can assure you that Genie+ does not offer flexibility - far from it. And a pretty good number of Disney's guests prefer planning to the fly by the seat of your pants experience of Genie+. These guests aren't going to suck it up and deal with this fiasco; they'll simply stop coming. Maybe that's okay with Disney.

We switched our next family trip (9 guests) from WDW to a Royal Caribbean cruise. DH and I have a WDW trip planned for October so I'm watching to see if Disney comes up with a system that works for us. If not, we'll cancel and go somewhere else. Won't be the end of the world.

Again, recognizing that FastPass+ was not working, did not achieve its goals and was not sustainable is not a defense of Genie+. They are though generally the same type of system and the same big picture issues apply. The problems are far more fundamental to Disney’s investment, capacity and operational decisions, none of which can actually be addressed by a reservation system. Continuing down that path just means shuffling around who are the winners and who are the losers.

 

[crazy4disney]

To some extent, yes.

I have generally opted to use whatever system WDW has in place. If WDW divides us into plebes and patricians, I'd prefer to be a patrician.

But I also find value in having a near equal playing field, and I find value is being able to enjoy all the details of WDW. Take the TSM queue, for example, I love all the little details of the toys along the way, I love searching for hidden Mickeys, and love taking in the sounds of WDW, the smiles, watching families having fun together.

I don't hate using my phone, but I also enjoy being able to put it away.

I totally understand your take but i have yet to see so many queues bc of FP and not once have i said dam i wish i waited 60-90-120 minutes so i can take in that part of Disney…. Hidden Mickeys was my passion decades ago still is now especially w my daughter i get to play the game all over again with my child. Priceless. I feel you can still do all youve said w/o the long waits if FP was still in place. & in regards to the phone i agree on vacation last thing i wanna do is be glues to it & w Genie seemed like that was the case. FP was simple. Open app refresh see whats available make a quick easy logistic decision & move on. Genie is anything but

 

[lazyboy97o]

I totally understand your take but i have yet to see so many queues bc of FP and not once have i said dam i wish i waited 60-90-120 minutes so i can take in that part of Disney…. Hidden Mickeys was my passion decades ago still is now especially w my daughter i get to play the game all over again with my child. Priceless. I feel you can still do all youve said w/o the long waits if FP was still in place. & in regards to the phone i agree on vacation last thing i wanna do is be glues to it & w Genie seemed like that was the case. FP was simple. Open app refresh see whats available make a quick easy logistic decision & move on. Genie is anything but

This is just more complete distortions of what people are saying. Nobody is saying they like standing in a queue. What they are doing is acknowledging the reality that how a queue is experienced influences perception and experience.