Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[GhostHost1000]

Actually, weren't folks around here raving about the 2020/21 all-standby experience? My 2021 pre-G+ trip was fantastic. (And the crowds were back.)

Maybe there were mixed responses...

Crowds were not back as they are now. Not even close

Many were waiting for mask requirements to be lifted as well

 

[Casper Gutman]

Actually, weren't folks around here raving about the 2020/21 all-standby experience? My 2021 pre-G+ trip was fantastic. (And the crowds were back.)

Maybe there were mixed responses...

Yup, my pre-G+ trip was utterly fantastic. Yes, crowds were lower, but that was absolutely not the only difference. The parks work better when they are allowed to work as they were designed.

 

[Casper Gutman]

They’re not unrelated. Increase average attractions per guest per hour and you’ll have less “need” for such systems.

And of course, the line-skipping systems are intended to fool guests into believing they are receiving some advantage so there is less demand for added capacity - it was my understanding that the entire $2 billion investment in what would become the G+ infrastructure was specifically meant to negate the need to add rides.

 

[crazy4disney]

Yup, my pre-G+ trip was utterly fantastic. Yes, crowds were lower, but that was absolutely not the only difference. The parks work better when they are allowed to work as they were designed.

You truly believe lines will basically disappear if genie/fp or any other line skipping except plaid and das goes away?

 

[lazyboy97o]

And of course, the line-skipping systems are intended to fool guests into believing they are receiving some advantage so there is less demand for added capacity - it was my understanding that the entire $2 billion investment in what would become the G+ infrastructure was specifically meant to negate the need to add rides.

It’s been the impetus behind FastPass, NextGen (FastPass+ being the major component as most others like interactive queues and waiters acting like stalkers were dropped) and the Genies. It’s been decades now and they just keep pouring huge sums that even at Disney’s inflated costs could have just bought some decent capacity.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Yeah I think that’s what it comes down to. I feel like there’s no point in discussing this in moralistic terms, as if some park goers are selfish for wanting a different product than other park goers. Maybe I want McDonald’s to make health food, or Old Navy to sell more turtlenecks, or whatever the case may be. Whatever, we’re all free to have those preferences. Consumer preferences are supposed to be the driver here - appeal to the most customers possible. And clearly that hasn’t happened with G+.

It's not a moralistic issue. However, when you gleefully embraced an arbitrary system that picked winners and losers because you happened to be a winner, don't be surprised (or expect much sympathy) when that arbitrary system shifts and you find yourself among the losers. There is one fair system, we all know what it is.

 

[lazyboy97o]

You truly believe lines will basically disappear if genie/fp or any other line skipping except plaid and das goes away?

Nobody has said lines will disappear, and the key to making for a good experience is having the capacity to support the desired operations. It’s about averages. You’re going to improve attractions per guest per hour for more people. Volcano Bay had to reduce their capacity, not increase it, and Universal’s push towards 100% virtual queuing came to an end.

 

[Casper Gutman]

You truly believe lines will basically disappear if genie/fp or any other line skipping except plaid and das goes away?

Neither I or anyone else I am aware of said lines would "basically disappear." They would move steadily, which they do not currently do. The aggregate lines in a park would fall because guests wouldn't be waiting in two lines virtually as they are waiting in another physically - crowds in stores, restaurants, and public areas would also fall. Lines would not be standardized over the day - they would fluctuate in length from morning to night, and less popular rides wouldn't have their waits artificially inflated.

Again, THIS IS THE ONLY WAY THE PARKS WERE DESIGNED TO WORK. Parks designed for line-skipping would look very different - they would have more attraction capacity, much larger public areas, restaurants, and shops, more locations for seating, more street performers and scheduled shows, and more things to explore in each land. For line-skipping to work, the parks would need to be redesigned from the ground up.

 

[crazy4disney]

Neither I or anyone else I am aware of said lines would "basically disappear." They would move steadily, which they do not currently do. The aggregate lines in a park would fall because guests wouldn't be waiting in two lines virtually as they are waiting in another physically - crowds in stores, restaurants, and public areas would also fall. Lines would not be standardized over the day - they would fluctuate in length from morning to night, and less popular rides wouldn't have their waits artificially inflated.

Again, THIS IS THE ONLY WAY THE PARKS WERE DESIGNED TO WORK. Parks designed for line-skipping would look very different - they would have more attraction capacity, much larger public areas, restaurants, and shops, more locations for seating, more street performers and scheduled shows, and more things to explore in each land. For line-skipping to work, the parks would need to be redesigned from the ground up.

Now granted i have DAS and as ive stated majority of times they were used to do re rides of something we already rode that day etc but i can honestly say w FP+ i never had to wait on any line at all.

 

[crazy4disney]

Nobody has said lines will disappear, and the key to making for a good experience is having the capacity to support the desired operations. It’s about averages. You’re going to improve attractions per guest per hour for more people. Volcano Bay had to reduce their capacity, not increase it, and Universal’s push towards 100% virtual queuing came to an end.

Key word capacity which i think no matter what side you are on we are all in agreement Disney is severely lacking for what their attendance numbers are.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Revert back to FP. If you want to use it. You have to pay just like genie if not you are free to explore the parks with nothing. Not sure where the confusion lies here

How would the numbers work?

Because the numbers didn’t work at all with fastpass+

It was a lazy, prebooked, boondoggles mess…that gave you much less than what this thing is doing…which is maxpass under a new name.

And it pains me to “support it”

Prebooked rides just don’t work…day of - while aggravating - is the way to go.

That’s where they screwed up. Amongst other things.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

It’s been the impetus behind FastPass, NextGen (FastPass+ being the major component as most others like interactive queues and waiters acting like stalkers were dropped) and the Genies. It’s been decades now and they just keep pouring huge sums that even at Disney’s inflated costs could have just bought some decent capacity.

This is the most frustrating thing for me, they’ve spent a fortune on tech to implement line schemes and they still have some of the worst apps, websites, etc.

They keep trying to “find” a digital solution but they can’t even provide a stable app for their failed systems to work on.

Had they taken the billions they’ve spent trying to fix the parks with (bad) technology, and invested directly into the parks themselves we’d be in a better spot today, we might even have the capacity to still be using the original, popular, FP.

 

[Chi84]

They’re not unrelated. Increase average attractions per guest per hour and you’ll have less “need” for such systems.

You'll always "need" it for the most popular rides and for the people who do not want to be in the park all day.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Now granted i have DAS and as ive stated majority of times they were used to do re rides of something we already rode that day etc but i can honestly say w FP+ i never had to wait on any line at all.

You didn’t wait or you didn’t perceive a wait? You were never behind anyone? Never stopped at merge to finish letting a batch of Stand-By guests through? Never had to wait a cycle or two to board? A big part of queuing and satisfaction is perception. Up to about 20 minutes people don’t really perceive much of the wait. This is why FastPass was originally advertised as generally offering a 20 minute or less wait (a claim that was dropped).

 

[lazyboy97o]

You'll always "need" it for the most popular rides and for the people who do not want to be in the park all day.

Edge cases should not define the operations of a park. The goal should be to maximize the experience for the average guest which at a destination park can easily be a 10 hour day. Even the need for the biggest rides decreases with that sort of program. 15 attractions at a Walt Disney World park is generally going to constitute a very large percentage of a park’s offerings, that’s the fundamental problem.

 

[crazy4disney]

How would the numbers work?

Because the numbers didn’t work at all with fastpass+

It was a lazy, prebooked, boondoggles mess…that gave you much less than what this thing is doing…which is maxpass under a new name.

And it pains me to “support it”

Prebooked rides just don’t work…day of - while aggravating - is the way to go.

That’s where they screwed up. Amongst other things.

Do you know for a fact FP didnt work? Im genuinely curious where you are getting that info from & how you are making that statement because i truly dk anyone who really had issues using FP as a resort guest. 1st the argument was people didnt like planning (not saying that was or wasnt your stance) now we are saying the parks couldnt support FP anymore….

 

[crazy4disney]

You didn’t wait or you didn’t perceive a wait? You were never behind anyone? Never stopped at merge to finish letting a batch of Stand-By guests through? Never had to wait a cycle or two to board? A big part of queuing and satisfaction is perception. Up to about 20 minutes people don’t really perceive much of the wait. This is why FastPass was originally advertised as generally offering a 20 minute or less wait (a claim that was dropped).

Since my daughter was born she is 8 and its been i think 9 trips we have basically never waited longer than 20 minutes to ride anything & i would say 90% of all our rides were w FP. The longest wait as said as it is to admit this was Barnstormer 30 minutes lol when my daughter was just tall enough to ride. Obv Rise/FoP have their pre shows but i truly havent waited. Yes i am definitelyNot the norm but i know so many people who go who absolutely loved FP & basically utilized it and had similar experiences where during an entire trip no real waits and we ride rides/attractions from the time we enter park to when we leave excluding eating and parade/fireworks.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Since my daughter was born she is 8 and its been i think 9 trips we have basically never waited longer than 20 minutes to ride anything & i would say 90% of all our rides were w FP. The longest wait as said as it is to admit this was Barnstormer 30 minutes lol when my daughter was just tall enough to ride. Obv Rise/FoP have their pre shows but i truly havent waited. Yes i am definitelyNot the norm but i know so many people who go who absolutely loved FP & basically utilized it and had similar experiences where during an entire trip no real waits and we ride rides/attractions from the time we enter park to when we leave excluding eating and parade/fireworks.

That was only possible because more people had to wait more. The only way to scale out a virtual queue or reservation system is to reduce park admission capacity and even then, the parks would need increases in other types of capacity such as retail, dining and filler attractions (and theme parks don’t really have a truly comparable equivalent of the wave pool or lazy river in terms of how people use them and view them as part of their day).

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Do you know for a fact FP didnt work? Im genuinely curious where you are getting that info from & how you are making that statement because i truly dk anyone who really had issues using FP as a resort guest. 1st the argument was people didnt like planning (not saying that was or wasnt your stance) now we are saying the parks couldnt support FP anymore….

It didn’t work

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It’s been the impetus behind FastPass, NextGen (FastPass+ being the major component as most others like interactive queues and waiters acting like stalkers were dropped) and the Genies. It’s been decades now and they just keep pouring huge sums that even at Disney’s inflated costs could have just bought some decent capacity.

This is the most frustrating thing for me, they’ve spent a fortune on tech to implement line schemes and they still have some of the worst apps, websites, etc.

They keep trying to “find” a digital solution but they can’t even provide a stable app for their failed systems to work on.

Had they taken the billions they’ve spent trying to fix the parks with (bad) technology, and invested directly into the parks themselves we’d be in a better spot today, we might even have the capacity to still be using the original, popular, FP.

Remember that they used these “initiatives” to cover the coast of MASSIVE IT upgrades that were needed. Disney was running DOS based management programs in 2003.

As in “dos”….they had almost zero wifi technology even after that.

Those things are “sunk”…unless Bob roles it into a pitch for the shareholders

And that’s near exactly how it went