Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[GhostHost1000]

I can state as a fact (for me personally) that I was not a fan of FastPass+. As a local (I get that many here think we don't count) it was nearly impossible to get FP+ in advance on any of the major E-Ticket attractions for most of the era of FP+. Since we could only book 30 days in advance they were all long gone. It's the exact same issue with ADR's for popular restaurants since we don't have the advantage of check-in +10 resort guests have. As a result, while I do have the opportunity for standby I haven't ridden Mine Train and many others for years. I'm not willing to wait 70-90 minutes for a ride. Since non-resort guests make up on average at least 50% of guests in the parks on any given day, the old system severely limited the experience of 50% of the guests in the parks on any day.

While the new system (like anything this large and complex) needs some fine-tuning around the edges it puts nearly every guest on a much more level playing field. Resort guests get a few hours advance on stuff like ILL, most everything else is the same for everyone, even a day-guest. While the die-hard Fastness ninja's had the old system figured out, they hate change and don't want to give up what they had learned to 'optimize' to their advantage. I agree the new system is not perfect, there is absolutely no solution to this that will please everyone, it is not the death of the parks that many would like to profess.

The problem is it’s a system that sucks for all that has evened the playing field for non resort guests imo

I mastered the old and feel like I know all the tricks and mastered the new recently on my 12 day trip, but it’s still not good

There has to be a better way to do some of this and Disney should have enough date to model all the different scenarios

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

I totally understand your take but i have yet to see so many queues bc of FP and not once have i said dam i wish i waited 60-90-120 minutes so i can take in that part of Disney…. Hidden Mickeys was my passion decades ago still is now especially w my daughter i get to play the game all over again with my child. Priceless. I feel you can still do all youve said w/o the long waits if FP was still in place. & in regards to the phone i agree on vacation last thing i wanna do is be glues to it & w Genie seemed like that was the case. FP was simple. Open app refresh see whats available make a quick easy logistic decision & move on. Genie is anything but

That is unfortunate, because they are quite entertaining.


I confess, I rode both Men in Black and Expedition Everest a great many times before I finally saw the standby queue.

But for a number of attractions, it is the queue that tells the story of the attraction, so to speak. Forbidden Journey and Men in Black both come to mind. When I finally saw the MIB queue, it was a bit of a Eureka moment. The queue actually TELLS riders how to play the game.

One of the best parts of Jungle Cruise was the recently replaced music loop. Sigh.

If you have never seen the full queues, then you are missing important parts of the story of a number of attractions.

 

[lazyboy97o]

That is unfortunate, because they are quite entertaining.


I confess, I rode both Men in Black and Expedition Everest a great many times before I finally saw the standby queue.

But for a number of attractions, it is the queue that tells the story of the attraction, so to speak. Forbidden Journey and Men in Black both come to mind. When I finally saw the MIB queue, it was a bit of a Eureka moment. The queue actually TELLS riders how to play the game.

One of the best parts of Jungle Cruise was the recently replaced music loop. Sigh.

If you have never seen the full queues, then you are missing important parts of the story of a number of attractions.

Harry Potter and the Forbidden Journey even had the “castle tour” where non-riders could go see some of the queue!

 

[dreday3]

Do we have any data on if things are better, worse, same since they started "limiting" sales of Genie +?

 

[crazy4disney]

That is unfortunate, because they are quite entertaining.


I confess, I rode both Men in Black and Expedition Everest a great many times before I finally saw the standby queue.

But for a number of attractions, it is the queue that tells the story of the attraction, so to speak. Forbidden Journey and Men in Black both come to mind. When I finally saw the MIB queue, it was a bit of a Eureka moment. The queue actually TELLS riders how to play the game.

One of the best parts of Jungle Cruise was the recently replaced music loop. Sigh.

If you have never seen the full queues, then you are missing important parts of the story of a number of attractions.

I totally get all of that but im willing to sacrifice that as opposed to waiting on extremely long lines.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Nobody is saying they like standing in a queue. What they are doing is acknowledging the reality that how a queue is experienced influences perception and experience.

I actually do enjoy seeing the queues.

I do not enjoy standing in one spot not-moving-for-a-very-long time, but I very much enjoy many of the ride queues.

Forbidden Journey is a great example. In the queue, you get to see all the rooms of the castle, including all the special effects. Using the Express Line is very much missing out on some of really exceptional details of the attraction.

I also really love the new Haunted Mansion queue. Many people walk right past the ghost poem portion, but it is fun to play along for a few minutes.

The interactive Pater Pan queue is also pretty neat.

A number of times, if the standby was 20min or less, we used to opt to use the standby queue over using our fastpass.

I appreciate all the detail, creativity, and artistry that goes into creating the elaborate queues. they are part of what distinguishes a theme park from a regualar amusement park.

 

[solidyne]

[...] I have over 50 years of experience in arriving at MK [...]

Nice! (emphasis added)

[...] I do not enjoy standing in one spot not-moving-for-a-very-long time, but I very much enjoy many of the ride queues. [...]

This is why I am in the all-standby camp. The sudden long stops followed by flow and then stop again, is a mild psychological torture.
A freely flowing line, on the other hand, is actually quite beautiful. Like ripples radiating from a pebble dropped in a pool, the line begins with a smooth, consistent walk, but as you progress through there is an increasing pulse of brief stops. Then, as you approach dispatch, the pauses get longer and longer, while excitement mounts!

 

[Chi84]

Continuing down that path just means shuffling around who are the winners and who are the losers.

You’re right! That’s exactly why I continue to follow - to see if Disney will adopt a system that turns us into winners again.

 

[Chi84]

We expressly go to FL in winter so we can be outside in the sunshine. FL is the sunshine state, after all.
I have over 50 years of experience in arriving at MK - more or less - at rope drop. Both the rope drop and peripheral PM crowds are all-ages. One of my warmest WDW memories was the time we saw an extended family: about 10 people, with the grandparents pushing 2 strollers, all-ages group. It was almost 1am, and they were RUNNING towards Space Mountain to make 'last call.' The older gentleman who looked to be the grandfather of the group shouted something to the effect of, "Only at WDW would I find myself RUNNING towards an attraction after midnight! This is SO much FUN! I feel like a little KID!" and the whole family smiled/whooped in agreement with him.

Also well, most of the WDW queues are not 'out in the hot sun.' Most of them are, at a bare minimum, shaded. Many are a hybrid of indoors and outdoors.

Having been to WDW every month of the year, winter is often quite cold. We're talking FROST. Usually we can get by with heavy sweatshirts/layers/long pants, but I have worn a winter coat/gloves in WDW a number of times. The average Jan low is 50, but fairly often it dips ten degrees colder than that, and WDW gets windy. Average Feb and Dec low is 54 degrees. So truly, in those months water rides are not very appealing, and the afternoon sun is very welcome. That's why WDW usually closes one of the water parks plus Kali and Splash.

Mind, I also enjoy WDW in the summer. Year round, it pays to use WDW peripheral hours.

I am inclined to think people will adapt to the options WDW offers. If they don't want to be outdoors in the afternoon, they will do what they have always done, and take a mid-day break of some sort. Eat indoors, see some shows, nap in the hotel, swim, see a movie, go bowling,,, Go to one of the MANY offsite indoor attractions that flank WDW. There are tons of options.

Your experience is not everyone’s. I think the best thing to do is for people to contact Disney and argue for the system that works best for them. They’ve already heard from me. Apparently they’re hearing from quite a few people these days.

 

[crazy4disney]

The problem is it’s a system that sucks for all that has evened the playing field for non resort guests imo

I mastered the old and feel like I know all the tricks and mastered the new recently on my 12 day trip, but it’s still not good

There has to be a better way to do some of this and Disney should have enough date to model all the different scenarios

Care to share some of these tricks that have made you a master of Genie. Would love to hear them
And use them in August. Only one that i used or came up with was instead of booking just anything i left my options open for the hope of something popping up and just booking it as opposed to cqncelling and hoping it was still there and when it wasnt had to book again and reset my 2 hour window grrrrrr

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I can state as a fact (for me personally) that I was not a fan of FastPass+. As a local (I get that many here think we don't count) it was nearly impossible to get FP+ in advance on any of the major E-Ticket attractions for most of the era of FP+. Since we could only book 30 days in advance they were all long gone. It's the exact same issue with ADR's for popular restaurants since we don't have the advantage of check-in +10 resort guests have. As a result, while I do have the opportunity for standby I haven't ridden Mine Train and many others for years. I'm not willing to wait 70-90 minutes for a ride. Since non-resort guests make up on average at least 50% of guests in the parks on any given day, the old system severely limited the experience of 50% of the guests in the parks on any day.

While the new system (like anything this large and complex) needs some fine-tuning around the edges it puts nearly every guest on a much more level playing field. Resort guests get a few hours advance on stuff like ILL, most everything else is the same for everyone, even a day-guest. While the die-hard Fastness ninja's had the old system figured out, they hate change and don't want to give up what they had learned to 'optimize' to their advantage. I agree the new system is not perfect, there is absolutely no solution to this that will please everyone, it is not the death of the parks that many would like to profess.

They already had the perfect system in maxpass at DL, sadly that was thrown out for Genie+ also. It likely only worked because DL has twice as many rides as any of the WDW parks though.

Disney keeps trying to change the system but they never seem to grasp that adding capacity is going to be necessary to make any system work.

I am inclined to think people will adapt to the options WDW offers. If they don't want to be outdoors in the afternoon, they will do what they have always done, and take a mid-day break of some sort. Eat indoors, see some shows, nap in the hotel, swim, see a movie, go bowling,,, Go to one of the MANY offsite indoor attractions that flank WDW. There are tons of options.

When a companies changes make “go offsite” one of the best options they’ve got a serious problem as a company.

Especially when that company has spent tens of billions of dollars over the last couple decades doing everything possible to keep people from ever leaving their property.

People will absolutely adapt, I’m not sure Disney intended us to adapt to the point of going elsewhere though.

 

[crazy4disney]

Again, recognizing that FastPass+ was not working, did not achieve its goals and was not sustainable is not a defense of Genie+. They are though generally the same type of system and the same big picture issues apply. The problems are far more fundamental to Disney’s investment, capacity and operational decisions, none of which can actually be addressed by a reservation system. Continuing down that path just means shuffling around who are the winners and who are the losers.

I just dont know who the winners are with Genie honestly. So as a Non Resort guest people claimed they couldnt get the top headliner but were able to get almost all others? So now its a free for all where still non resort guests get no headliner and now you have to hope to get some other solid rides 1 at a time…. And as ive stayed. Staying on property NEEDS to have some perks. This was one of them if you wanna cal it that.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

I totally get all of that but im willing to sacrifice that as opposed to waiting on extremely long lines.

I tend to do the standbys when the waits are short. Even in the time of G+ and spring break week, We saw a some short standbys for top tier attractions.

Though I sometimes break my own rule, as with MIB and EE, I generally try to use the standby queue the first time ride a new attraction. Yes, you wait in line, but you also see all the details.

IMO, the most interesting part of Hogwart's Express is how they solved the 'challenge' of getting us to Platform 9 3/4. That is one of the highlights of the entire attraction. It is a little funny though...when I am trying to think of examples of great queues, I keep thinking of HP attractions.

In this thread we have talked repeatedly about WDW needing to add capacity. One of the ways they do that is to create 'walk through' attractions. One of the ways WDW can make interesting 'walk through' attractions is to incorporate ride queues into the whole experience of each attraction.

I mean, what is HM without the stretch room?

Very much part of the solution here is for WDW to keep putting more creativity into the design of the queues, so that they are not queues at all, but part of the attraction. As they did with Rise.

Come to think of it, if any of you go to Universal, I highly recommend taking time to see the velocicoaster queue. Even if you have no interest in riding the coaster, the animatronics in the queue are...the best I have seen. The level of detail is extraordinary. Truly something to see if you are a theme park fan.

 

[bhg469]

That’s all great, but people don’t want to stand in long lines at WDW when there are so many other things to do. Either Disney figures out how to make that work or it’s going to lose a lot of people. Maybe they don’t care, but there must be some reason they’re making changes to Genie+ instead of simply abandoning it.

But there aren't so many other things to do. Capacity is terrible and the things they could do to draw people away from the rides just aren't there.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Your experience is not everyone’s. I think the best thing to do is for people to contact Disney and argue for the system that works best for them. They’ve already heard from me. Apparently they’re hearing from quite a few people these days.

Huh? I generally think you are one of the more thoughtful forum members posting, but in this case, it appears you only read a portion of my post. It also seems like you're arguing against reality.

Every hour of every day, WDW park goers are all-ages. Almost the only WDW exceptions are places that don't allow (small) children.

It seems weird to argue against this, because rope drop photos always have strollers.

 

[Chi84]

But there aren't so many other things to do. Capacity is terrible and the things they could do to draw people away from the rides just aren't there.

I disagree, at least as far as my group is concerned. For example, we enjoy the Living Seas and Land pavilions at Epcot, as well as those in the World Showcase. We love spending time on the animal treks in AK. Looking around in the shops and at the sights in Galaxy’s Edge is fun.

We would rather spend time watching shows or having something to eat or drink (Nomad Lounge and Hollywood Derby Lounge are great) than waiting in lines for rides like Rise or FOP.

That in no way means I don’t think Disney has done enough in this regard. Clearly, more would be better.

 

[bhg469]

I disagree, at least as far as my group is concerned. For example, we enjoy the Living Seas and Land pavilions at Epcot, as well as those in the World Showcase. We love spending time on the animal treks in AK. Looking around in the shops and at the sights in Galaxy’s Edge is fun.

We would rather spend time watching shows or having something to eat or drink (Nomad Lounge and Hollywood Derby Lounge are great) than waiting in lines for rides like Rise or FOP.

That in no way means I don’t think Disney has done enough in this regard. Clearly, more would be better.

I love the thought of more lounges for sure. More interactive experience like the one at world showcase would be cool too. Something to force you into corners of the parks your don't often go.

 

[Chi84]

Huh? I generally think you are one of the more thoughtful forum members posting, but in this case, it appears you only read a portion of my post. It also seems like you're arguing against reality.

Every hour of every day, WDW park goers are all-ages. Almost the only WDW exceptions are places that don't allow (small) children.

It seems weird to argue against this, because rope drop photos always have strollers.

I’m not sure what you mean. I never said WDW doesn’t have guests of all ages throughout the day. They clearly do.

Some multi-generational families have no problem with rope drop, waiting in lines and staying until park close. Others (like my group) find it a struggle that would make the experience not worth it for us. I’m speaking only for us, not for you. But I think there are many others who would agree with me and I’m pretty sure Disney knows this.

People have different experiences, circumstances and preferences when it comes to WDW. It doesn’t make one group right or better than the other - just different.

 

[Chi84]

I love the thought of more lounges for sure. More interactive experience like the one at world showcase would be cool too. Something to force you into corners of the parks your don't often go.

More lounges make everything better - even standing in line Maybe that’s the answer Disney is looking for.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Neither I or anyone else I am aware of said lines would "basically disappear." They would move steadily, which they do not currently do. The aggregate lines in a park would fall because guests wouldn't be waiting in two lines virtually as they are waiting in another physically - crowds in stores, restaurants, and public areas would also fall. Lines would not be standardized over the day - they would fluctuate in length from morning to night, and less popular rides wouldn't have their waits artificially inflated.

Again, THIS IS THE ONLY WAY THE PARKS WERE DESIGNED TO WORK. Parks designed for line-skipping would look very different - they would have more attraction capacity, much larger public areas, restaurants, and shops, more locations for seating, more street performers and scheduled shows, and more things to explore in each land. For line-skipping to work, the parks would need to be redesigned from the ground up.

Your history is correct…but the problem is the numbers no longer work.

The “parks work as designed” when they added new rides and new parks as the travel grew on a steady arc from the 1960’s to 2000.

Then they stopped. Near cold Turkey. But the arc continued. They started looking at overhead more than sales and you really can’t “pause” theme park investment. It’s been tried since 1900 and always resulted in decay to a certain extent. But Roy got mad, Bob took the job, Roy died, and Steve Jobs “techie board” showed up.

And here we are. You can’t fix mistakes that linger for years. It really is what it is.

I’m on a flight home right now…and I’m sure of two things:
1. Any suggestion more pay isn’t coming is delusional
2. Any suggestion that they can handle crowds without it is delusional.


I have more “things”…but I’ll leave it at that