Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[mikejs78]

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Does Disney even realize (or care) what a disaster Genie+ is?

 

[wdwmagic]

Does Disney even realize what a s***show that Genie+ is?

some of them do

 

[Jeff4272]

some of them do

Do the people that matter, the ones that can change it care?

The reason i write a lot in this post about this subject is because we love WDW and it is so bad, that it turned my kids off from wanting to come and it has ruined my family's favorite vacation

 

[ChrisM]

Does Disney even realize (or care) what a disaster Genie+ is?

I'd hazard a guess that:

- Not enough executives care.
- It's been a nice revenue generator.
- They are more than happy to bid adios to those that don't like it.

I recounted my relative success in utilizing the system a few days ago. Overall, I'm not sure what I thought of it as a customer. I was thrilled at my touring success; relieved that it all went so well; strangely detached from the fact that I've become desensitized to the ugly reality that touring a Disney park requires jumping through successively inconvenient and costly hoops?

There were things I liked about original FP and things I liked about FP+. But there were also things I absolutely hated about both. Running around the park pulling paper tickets sucked. Getting up at 5am and planning out a week's worth of ride times 2 months in advance might be the dumbest thing I've ever been tricked into doing.

Paying extra for a "lesser" version of FP wouldn't be my first choice of possible options, but I'm fortunate enough to not be a particularly price sensitive vacationer. I'm happy to pay pretty much whatever to get what I want, but just can't cross the bridge of a VIP tour. Paying a significant premium for the benefit of being babysat, led around, and regaled with inside stories, trivia, and anecdotes I already know has little value to me; I just want to be able to have the relative freedom of doing what I want, when I want, with the people I want to be with. Stressing out about hitting the 60 second window to secure a Rise or FoP ILL - and paying for the "privilege" - wasn't exactly on my list of "Top Things I Want To Experience On Vacation". And when the app hung at 6:59:40am whilst driving up to the HS parking booth I definitely had a pucker moment. I guess I would be just fine with paying a per ride fee for everything, provided it was a reasonably "on demand" system.

Contrast this with the fact that we intentionally made this a Universal-based vacation, stayed at Portofino Bay, and only did two out of eight days at Disney parks. Why? Mostly because it's just way easier and more of an actual vacation. We could pop in and out of any park at any time without making a reservation and without stressing out about it.

 

[G00fyDad]

- It's been a nice revenue generator.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

 

[drizgirl]

- They are more than happy to bid adios to those that don't like it.

No they aren't.

 

[pdude81]

Fastpass plus had a structural flaw in that every ticket or annual pass entry got 3 line skips for free. And we created this beast (collective "we") by saying that we'd rather they bring something like MaxPass to WDW. It's a huge pain in the , but if people keep buying at these rates it's going nowhere.

 

[mikejs78]

Fastpass plus had a structural flaw in that every ticket or annual pass entry got 3 line skips for free. And we created this beast (collective "we") by saying that we'd rather they bring something like MaxPass to WDW. It's a huge pain in the ***, but if people keep buying at these rates it's going nowhere.

Honestly if they allowed time selection, updating an existing reservation, and pre-select your first LL a week before or something it wouldn't be as bad. Those seem like simple tweaks and would take the best of FP+ and best of Genie+ without some of the pitfalls.

 

[pdude81]

Honestly if they allowed time selection, updating an existing reservation, and pre-select your first LL a week before or something it wouldn't be as bad. Those seem like simple tweaks and would take the best of FP+ and best of Genie+ without some of the pitfalls.

I agree that some tweaks are likely and can help soften some of the criticism. I can't imagine they'd make any changes before late summer though as they'll be lucky to roll out Guardians ILL and potential VQ without major tech issues if changing too many things. If we're lucky though, they'll just do ILL and standby for guardians.

 

[Naplesgolfer]

I'd hazard a guess that:

- Not enough executives care.
- It's been a nice revenue generator.
- They are more than happy to bid adios to those that don't like it.

I recounted my relative success in utilizing the system a few days ago. Overall, I'm not sure what I thought of it as a customer. I was thrilled at my touring success; relieved that it all went so well; strangely detached from the fact that I've become desensitized to the ugly reality that touring a Disney park requires jumping through successively inconvenient and costly hoops?

There were things I liked about original FP and things I liked about FP+. But there were also things I absolutely hated about both. Running around the park pulling paper tickets sucked. Getting up at 5am and planning out a week's worth of ride times 2 months in advance might be the dumbest thing I've ever been tricked into doing.

Paying extra for a "lesser" version of FP wouldn't be my first choice of possible options, but I'm fortunate enough to not be a particularly price sensitive vacationer. I'm happy to pay pretty much whatever to get what I want, but just can't cross the bridge of a VIP tour. Paying a significant premium for the benefit of being babysat, led around, and regaled with inside stories, trivia, and anecdotes I already know has little value to me; I just want to be able to have the relative freedom of doing what I want, when I want, with the people I want to be with. Stressing out about hitting the 60 second window to secure a Rise or FoP ILL - and paying for the "privilege" - wasn't exactly on my list of "Top Things I Want To Experience On Vacation". And when the app hung at 6:59:40am whilst driving up to the HS parking booth I definitely had a pucker moment. I guess I would be just fine with paying a per ride fee for everything, provided it was a reasonably "on demand" system.

Contrast this with the fact that we intentionally made this a Universal-based vacation, stayed at Portofino Bay, and only did two out of eight days at Disney parks. Why? Mostly because it's just way easier and more of an actual vacation. We could pop in and out of any park at any time without making a reservation and without stressing out about it.

The total number of express passes offered at Universal is tiny compared the number of people who could buy Genie+ and compete with you for ride times. they are not comparable .

Fast pass+ was basically for resort guest to have 3 rides. Offsite and day tripping locals didn't get that much in total. Now with Genie+ the different groups are closer to being equal in access and they can't even give everyone 3 rides by Disney's own admission. Low capacity is the problem. Genie+ is just lipstick on the Pig. It's about revenue. They probably would have had better satisfaction and more revenue by keeping everything the same and just raising the ticket $15.

 

[Naplesgolfer]

Honestly if they allowed time selection, updating an existing reservation, and pre-select your first LL a week before or something it wouldn't be as bad. Those seem like simple tweaks and would take the best of FP+ and best of Genie+ without some of the pitfalls.

Because a much larger pool of people compete for Genie + ride times vs mainly resort guests for Fastpass+, adding those feature's is untenable .

 

[pdude81]

The total number of express passes offered at Universal is tiny compared the number of people who could buy Genie+ and compete with you for ride times. they are not comparable .

Fast pass+ was basically for resort guest to have 3 rides. Offsite and day tripping locals didn't get that much in total. Now with Genie+ the different groups are closer to being equal in access and they can't even give everyone 3 rides by Disney's own admission. Low capacity is the problem. Genie+ is just lipstick on the Pig. It's about revenue. They probably would have had better satisfaction and more revenue by keeping everything the same and just raising the ticket $15.

The problem there is that you can't raise annual passes by $15 a day. And if you try to draw crowds to raise revenue, the line waits just get worse. They could have charged $15 for the service and made it optional, but some dummy back in the day said they'd never charge for fastpass

 

[Naplesgolfer]

The problem there is that you can't raise annual passes by $15 a day. And if you try to draw crowds to raise revenue, the line waits just get worse. They could have charged $15 for the service and made it optional, but some dummy back in the day said they'd never charge for fastpass

No annual passes, like now. Just raise the tickets. But I digress, either way capacity is the problem. The math doesn't work no matter what program they come up with. There aren't enough ride times to go around.

 

[ChrisM]

The total number of express passes offered at Universal is tiny compared the number of people who could buy Genie+ and compete with you for ride times. they are not comparable .

Fast pass+ was basically for resort guest to have 3 rides. Offsite and day tripping locals didn't get that much in total. Now with Genie+ the different groups are closer to being equal in access and they can't even give everyone 3 rides by Disney's own admission. Low capacity is the problem. Genie+ is just lipstick on the Pig. It's about revenue. They probably would have had better satisfaction and more revenue by keeping everything the same and just raising the ticket $15.

Yes, that’s well understood. But it doesn’t change the fact that the guest experiences are totally different. One is an actual vacation; the other is a bizarre and painful exercise.

Disney needs to either charge a lot more for line skipping privileges or increase ride capacity. Probably both.

 

[Naplesgolfer]

Yes, that’s well understood. But it doesn’t change the fact that the guest experiences are totally different. One is an actual vacation; the other is a bizarre and painful exercise.

Disney needs to either charge a lot more for line skipping privileges or increase ride capacity. Probably both.

I totally agree they should. But I was suggesting a plan that the current Disney would possibly do. Raise the ticket prices and leave everything like it was in 2019 would be better than Genie+. Not great but way preferable to this current mess.

 

[TikibirdLand]

Yes, that’s well understood. But it doesn’t change the fact that the guest experiences are totally different. One is an actual vacation; the other is a bizarre and painful exercise.

Disney needs to either charge a lot more for line skipping privileges or increase ride capacity. Probably both.

As much as I hate to say it, they do need to charge more for the Genie+. But, it's gonna have to have better benefits; more in line with what Uni does.

Increased ride capacity is gonna be a big pain in the a$$ as line waits will increase showing the true wait times. I don't think you've heard anything until those complaints come in!

 

[Purduevian]

Some easy changes:
1)Bring the modify button back
2)let people pick times
3)Deluxe hotel guest can book first G+ selection of the day and ILL, 7 days before check in day for their length of stay at 7:00am EST
4)Moderate hotel guests can book first G+ selection of the day and ILL, 5 days before check in day for their length of stay at 7:00am EST
5)Value hotel guests can book first G+ selection of the day and ILL, 3 days before check in day for their length of stay at 7:00am EST
No changes to offsite guests

This would allow less people "fighting" for the rides at the same time, allowing the system to not jump around as much.

Edit: Also allow club level to book up to 2 more LLs 10 days out for an additional $15 per LL

 

[Naplesgolfer]

Some easy changes:
1)Bring the modify button back
2)let people pick times
3)Deluxe hotel guest can book first G+ selection of the day and ILL, 7 days before check in day for their length of stay at 7:00am EST
4)Moderate hotel guests can book first G+ selection of the day and ILL, 5 days before check in day for their length of stay at 7:00am EST
5)Value hotel guests can book first G+ selection of the day and ILL, 3 days before check in day for their length of stay at 7:00am EST
No changes to offsite guests

This would allow less people "fighting" for the rides at the same time, allowing the system to not jump around as much.

Edit: Also allow club level to book up to 2 more LLs 10 days out for an additional $15 per LL

Deluxe would book too much of the capacity of the top rides to make genie worth the money for the rest of the groups. The inadequate ride capacity they have built, locks them in the corner of "2-3 attractions". No way to cheat the math.

 

[Purduevian]

Deluxe would book too much of the capacity of the top rides to make genie worth the money for the rest of the groups. The inadequate ride capacity they have built, locks them in the corner of "2-3 attractions". No way to cheat the math.

I believe there are ~9,200 deluxe rooms on property assuming an average of 3 guests per room, that gives ~27,600 deluxe guests. Lets say 50% of them go to MK one day (13,800). Lets also assume 75% of them are using G+ and actually understand they can book 7 days out (round up to 10,500).

MK top ride capacity:
Jungle Cruise 1860, Big Thunder 2571, Splash 2356, Haunted Mansion 3000, Space 2016, Pan 800
Total of the big ride capacity per hour: 10,587, we will round down to 10,000
During a 12 hour day, those rides can see 120,000 guests. I would assume 50%LL, so 60,000LL spots a day for those big 6
Deluxe could only take ~18% of the LL availability for the big 6 in magic kingdom.

Even if every deluxe room had 4 people in it, they all went to MK on the same day, AND all of them bought G+ and knew how to use it, they could only take ~62% of the LL availability for the big 6.

Would Deluxe guests be able to sell out certain rides before moderate had a chance? Sure. Even at DHS (probably the worst park for capacity)
The big 3 of
SDD (2160 pph), MFSR (1680), and MMRR (1,800?). Over a 12 hour day allow for 33,840LL over the course of a day.
It is technically possible if even if every deluxe room had 4 people in it, they all went to dhs on the same day, AND all of them bought G+ and knew how to use it. They could sell out those 3 before anyone else had a chance... Moderate would just be left with RnRC, TOT, TSMM

 

[Naplesgolfer]

I believe there are ~9,200 deluxe rooms on property assuming an average of 3 guests per room, that gives ~27,600 deluxe guests. Lets say 50% of them go to MK one day (13,800). Lets also assume 75% of them are using G+ and actually understand they can book 7 days out (round up to 10,500).

MK top ride capacity:
Jungle Cruise 1860, Big Thunder 2571, Splash 2356, Haunted Mansion 3000, Space 2016, Pan 800
Total of the big ride capacity per hour: 10,587, we will round down to 10,000
During a 12 hour day, those rides can see 120,000 guests. I would assume 50%LL, so 60,000LL spots a day for those big 6
Deluxe could only take ~18% of the LL availability for the big 6 in magic kingdom.

Even if every deluxe room had 4 people in it, they all went to MK on the same day, AND all of them bought G+ and knew how to use it, they could only take ~62% of the LL availability for the big 6.

Would Deluxe guests be able to sell out certain rides before moderate had a chance? Sure. Even at DHS (probably the worst park for capacity)
The big 3 of
SDD (2160 pph), MFSR (1680), and MMRR (1,800?). Over a 12 hour day allow for 33,840LL over the course of a day.
It is technically possible if even if every deluxe room had 4 people in it, they all went to dhs on the same day, AND all of them bought G+ and knew how to use it. They could sell out those 3 before anyone else had a chance... Moderate would just be left with RnRC, TOT, TSMM

You make good points. I could quibble about people per room in the 5000 DVC rooms but your points are valid. I still think what Deluxe would book up much of return times in the morning before they hop to the next park at 2pm . This would make Genie+ even more unattractive. Also offsite would have tumble weeds left for them after onsite prebooks. The capacity is just too low no matter how they slice it. IMO