Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

G00fyDad

G00fyDad

Well-Known Member
Minnesota disney fan said:
I've read most of this thread, Wow, and I just wonder if it has been disney's plan and end game to charge for FP, as has been stated on here many times. People get upset and frustrated with Genie + and Ills(what a good name for it) and start stating that it might be better to just pay for fast pass. Could they be that devious? I don't know, but the end result seems to be swinging to that conclusion for some.
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I don't think they're that smart. Most of them would probably lose a chess game after about four moves. Thinking that far ahead hasn't exactly been their strong suit for the past couple of decades.
 
disneygeek90

disneygeek90

Well-Known Member
LittleBuford said:
In the short term, perhaps, but I’m sure they don’t want to deal with mounting complaints and dissatisfaction in the long term.

They would have done better to keep FP+ and start charging for it.
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They’re currently building a hotel that seeks $5k/2 nights. I’m not sure how well they’re evaluating long term right now. Which is probably part of the problem.
 
BrianLo

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
doctornick said:
One big issue with WDW is that any system that has a set time for everyone to activate is going to have a mad rush to use at that time. Having it be a specific time online means that lots of people try simultaneously. Requiring park entry first will push more people to rope drop which can make it unwieldy and mob scene - also has an interesting question if the early entry works which would (a) give resort guests an advantage but (b) get complaints about spending time booking passes pushes into their “exclusive” park time.

Then again, do they let non resort guests tapstile in early? Would be interesting if non resort guests have a clear plan of attack while resort guests would be torn between going to rides or getting on the app and booking immediately upon entry.

FP+ definitely had a “benefit” in spreading out the booking times since everyone had different times when they were eligible to book for a given day. Yes, the 30 day window was a mad rush but I would think not as bad given the number of folks who already booked.

WDW suffers more than other places because of both the size/number of guests and also the generally touring styles compared to say DLR.

I don’t know what the “best” solution is but I do know that whenever a booking window opens, there will be a mad rush to book right on that time at WDW.
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Which is exactly why I think they’ve selected the time they have. I know there are a lot of complaints, but they don’t want people booking in advance. Why? Because it’s hard to keep selling something that is already useless, because resort guests booked 60+ days out. You also can’t adjust to your attraction that has overnight maintenance needs organically.

They definitely did not want it at park opening, which is guest forward. They don’t want you fumbling at rope drop.

Tied to scanning in is more problematic. Now you have guests jostling even more to be in front and immediately blocking entryways, because they need to figure out their LL just beyond the turnstiles.

Nor can it be one hour before each park entry, that’s too inconsistent for guests to navigate with different opening times. It would shift demand always against the first park to open.

So that’s where 7am comes from. One hour before the earliest park to open (AK at 8). I can’t really see a solution that is preferable from Disney’s perspective. Maybe 30 minutes after park opening WITH requirement to be tapped in.
 
JoeCamel

JoeCamel

Well-Known Member
BrianLo said:
Which is exactly why I think they’ve selected the time they have. I know there are a lot of complaints, but they don’t want people booking in advance. Why? Because it’s hard to keep selling something that is already useless, because resort guests booked 60+ days out. You also can’t adjust to your attraction that has overnight maintenance needs organically.

They definitely did not want it at park opening, which is guest forward. They don’t want you fumbling at rope drop.

Tied to scanning in is more problematic. Now you have guests jostling even more to be in front and immediately blocking entryways, because they need to figure out their LL just beyond the turnstiles.

Nor can it be one hour before each park entry, that’s too inconsistent for guests to navigate with different opening times. It would shift demand always against the first park to open.

So that’s where 7am comes from. One hour before the earliest park to open (AK at 8). I can’t really see a solution that is preferable from Disney’s perspective. Maybe 30 minutes after park opening WITH requirement to be tapped in.
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They need to go back to midnight. If you are not willing to work for your Disfix™️ is it really worth it?
 
MrPromey

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
LittleBuford said:
In the short term, perhaps, but I’m sure they don’t want to deal with mounting complaints and dissatisfaction in the long term.

They would have done better to keep FP+ and start charging for it.
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Except if resort guests still kept their 60+ window advantage, it would have been a pretty hard sell to everyone else who then had to pay for a system where their first choices were never available.

... and if resort guests lost their 60+* day advantage, I think a lot of people who thought the old system was great, would have a very different opinion of it when they realized they would likely not be riding FOP or 7DMT, possibly in the next decade, unless they were willing to wait (like most non-resort guests under FP+) in the hellishly long lines they were accustomed to skipping, especially if having to pay for the system - just like many resort guests aren't happy about Genie+.**

To be clear, I'm not saying that makes what they did do good.


*Remember, that 60 day limit as a resort guest was just for your first day so the longer someone was staying, the better access they had at their 60 day mark to select certain things for later in their stay. Someone going for two weeks was likely to never have a problem getting any of their first choices for any part of their stay so how would that work in a new paid version of that system which would have to be more "level" to make it appealing for non-resort guests to buy into?

They couldn't do 30+ days for resort guests because that would create the same end-result that makes it a hard sell for non-resort guests while also making it more stressful and less beneficial to resort guests when compared to the "free" version they previously had.

The old system was not designed to work with an across the board fee and once you move from a "you'll take what we so generously give you" to a "we need people from all groups to want to buy this" the dynamics of how it has to work shift. Genie+ shows how non-trivial trying to get that right can be when you're already starting out without enough capacity.

**Not to say anyone seems happy about the new system except Disney who's managing to pull an extra $15+ out of people's pockets per day without having to offer anything more for it.
 
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TikibirdLand

TikibirdLand

Well-Known Member
MrPromey said:
Except if resort guests still kept their 60+ window advantage, it would have been a pretty hard sell to everyone else who now has to pay for a system where their first choices are never available.

... and if resort guests lost their 60+* day advantage, I think a lot of people who thought the old system was great, would have a very different opinion of it when they realized they would likely not be riding FOP or 7DMT on their upcoming trip unless they were willing to wait in the hellishly long lines they were accustomed to skipping, especially if having to pay for the system - just like many resort guests aren't happy about Genie+.**

To be clear, I'm not saying that makes what they did do good.


*Remember, that 60 day limit as a resort guest was just for your first day so the longer someone was staying, the better access they had at their 60 day mark to select certain things for later in their stay. Someone going for two weeks was likely to never have a problem getting any of their first choices so how would that work in a new paid version of that system which would have to be more "level" to make it appealing for non-reort guests to buy into?

They couldn't do 30+ days for resort guests because that would create the same end-result that makes it a hard sell for non-resort guests while also making it more stressful and less beneficial to resort guests when compared to the "free" version they previously had.

The old system was not designed to work with an across the board fee and once you move from a "you'll take what we so generously give you" to a "we need people from all groups to want to buy this" the dynamics of how it has to work shift. Genie+ shows how non-trivial trying to get that right can be when you're already starting out without enough capacity.

**Not to say anyone seems happy about the new system except Disney who's managing to pull an extra $15+ out of people's pockets per day without having to offer anything more for it.
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Under the old system, we were able to get our first choices in every park during our 4 day resort stay; I don't think you would have needed 2 weeks. Regardless, I think your point is valid. I'm not sure I could have had we stayed off-site. G+ is a mess that I don't think I want to subject my family to. I'm an early riser. So, I'd be the one stuck with trying to get the LL choices at 7am every day. You don't want me to be the arcade player. My kids always take the XBox controller away from me saying, "You're doing it wrong, Dad!".
 
T

Touchdown

Well-Known Member
I put a post in General Discussion that goes into detail, but Ill post the main results here of my December Trip, and say that at least to me this proves that you do not need Genie+ provided you get EE: heres the results (with my waits during Evening EMH and DAH pulled out as well: )

Total Rides Ridden This Trip: 77 (49 Normal Rides, 7 Evening EMH Rides, 21 DAH Rides)
Rides Per Day: 13 (8 Normal Rides, 7 Evening EMH Rides, 10.5 DAH Rides)
Average Wait: 26 min (33 min Normal Rides, 13 min Evening EMH Rides, 14 min DAH Rides)
 
matt9112

matt9112

Well-Known Member
mikejs78 said:
Look no one disagrees at Disney could use more capacity, but that's not something that is going to happen for years even if they fully committed to it right now. So we are where we are, and that's with the capacity we have and a line skipping system of some sort just like every other theme park in the United States. So the question is what's the best format for that.
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pdude81 said:
Right. Genie+ is managing the problem while they hopefully start trying to actually solve it. Also it gives incentive to adding more rides as that would allow for selling more tickets AND LL passes.
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They need to add capacity without ramping up attendance.....hence why there marketing department really put them in a corner. Lets not add any meaningful capacity for 10 years....but hey!
 
Marriedatdisney

Marriedatdisney

Active Member
My two cents after a week of using the product….

1. just too many people in the parks. I realize it’s the most crowded week of the year, but just too many people for the walkways, rides, shops and restaurant. Nothing they do without expanding the parks or reducing admittance can fix it.

2 having said that, our experience with genie+ and paid lightening lane was ok. We bought genie everyday and bought the cash ride each day as well. I think there are two basic strategies….

Strategy A: wake up at 6:45, buy genie. At 7, buy the paid ride for around 12-12:30 , grab a lightening lane ride as close to 11-11:30 as possible. Now workout, go back to sleep for an hour or just relax. Head to the park around 10. Grab next lightening lane around 10:30 or 11 depending on park open. Now ride your 1st lightening. Now ride the paid. Grab next lightening lane around 12:30-1. Grab lunch. You should have two rides to ride. Mix in a standby or two if possible. Repeat until exhausted or time for dinner. At this point you’ve had a good run. Head to resort and or grab dinner. We have two teens, they’d hit the park again with hopper and ride 8-close. They’d sleep in the next morning while we repeated the cycle.

You will have to be flex depending on what ride has LL availability. We found certain rides have to be your 7am get or you won’t likely get them in the afternoon. Slinky, Jungle Cruise, Remy (virtual if you can get it, otherwise paid), etc.

Strategy B: same start as A, but hit rope drop as early as you can. Commando rides until lines build, then follow the strategy A. Instead of going back at night after dinner, Call it a day between 4-6 and get ready for the next day.

bottom line, you’re on the go. Set phone alarm for every two hours to get your LL picks. Don’t be super picky, if you’re here a week, you can rotate that first pick. We averaged 7-8 rides per day before dinner.

good luck!
 
J

JMcMahonEsq

Well-Known Member
matt9112 said:
Could say the same thing about letting the quality of there product sour over a decade or so. I mean the best part of epic universe is the pressure.
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Absolutely! And you just have to point to the massive drop in attendance over the past ten years showing how much the product has soured with near empty parks and drastic decreases in attendance…..oh wait
 

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