Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[doctornick]

Yes, you’re right. I chose my words badly. I meant a system that works the same way as MaxPass in terms of when you can make your selections (on the same day once you enter the parks) but that offers the same functionality as FP+ (the ability to select and change times).

One big issue with WDW is that any system that has a set time for everyone to activate is going to have a mad rush to use at that time. Having it be a specific time online means that lots of people try simultaneously. Requiring park entry first will push more people to rope drop which can make it unwieldy and mob scene - also has an interesting question if the early entry works which would (a) give resort guests an advantage but (b) get complaints about spending time booking passes pushes into their “exclusive” park time.

Then again, do they let non resort guests tapstile in early? Would be interesting if non resort guests have a clear plan of attack while resort guests would be torn between going to rides or getting on the app and booking immediately upon entry.

FP+ definitely had a “benefit” in spreading out the booking times since everyone had different times when they were eligible to book for a given day. Yes, the 30 day window was a mad rush but I would think not as bad given the number of folks who already booked.

WDW suffers more than other places because of both the size/number of guests and also the generally touring styles compared to say DLR.

I don’t know what the “best” solution is but I do know that whenever a booking window opens, there will be a mad rush to book right on that time at WDW.

 

[flynnibus]

Some first page results searching “stressful” in the now Genie, Genie+ and My Disney Experience forum.

FastPass+ stressing me out...

I have not been to Disney World since 9/2005. We will be going again 9/2015. I was wondering how AWFUL it will be if I completely screw up my FastPass+ selections. It is really stressing me out. I keep trying to read as much as possible so when my 60 day window opens I will be prepared but...

forums.wdwmagic.com

FP help

So we will be taking our DD2 to WDW for the week of New Years, this is also our first trip as adults. We will spend 3 days in the park(s). My question(s) is should I go ahead and book my FP for what we know we would want her to experience from each park? Basically should we just pick 4-6...

forums.wdwmagic.com

Looking for some advice

We will be at the world from January 9th till the 15th. We will be having breakfast at 8:20 at Royal Akershus on the 11th. As of now park opens at 9. Trying to figure out best us of fastpass. We will want to do both Frozen Ever After and Soarin. We will have to do a rider swap on Soarin as...

forums.wdwmagic.com

Fastpass+ Stressing Me Out, I thought this was a vacation

So, I am thoroughly confused about all this Fastpass+ talk. Some parks have it, some don't, some have tiered levels, some don't. Pass limits and yadda, yadda, yadda. I thought this was supposed to be a vacation. Don't get me wrong, I know WDW is not what you would call a "relaxing"...

forums.wdwmagic.com

Complete newbie, completely overwhelmed

Our family is traveling to Florida for a family reunion and the NASCAR race over the 4th of July holiday. We have ONE day for WDW, and because I have 10 and 11 year old daughters, I determined Magic Kingdom is the best choice for us since we must see princesses. I had no idea you could book...

forums.wdwmagic.com

Thx for that... I didn't have the motivation to drag out what we've all known for years, but a few still whitewash. It's like the 'I never wait in any line more than 20min' crowd. Yes, if you automatically eliminate any instance that doesn't fit.. you too can have utopia!

 

[flynnibus]

Where is the insult in his quote?

Her

He is voicing an opinion that people are overstating the levels of stress involved in using an app. He is coordinating this to basic life decisions people make everyday. Are their some eggshell people that may honestly feel deciding on which Genie plus ride they want is too stressful? Sure, maybe. But that is more their subjective issues rather than objective complexity with the decisions you make at a theme park, or any consequences that come out of those decisions. In either case there was no insult I could see, just a difference of opinion on stress levels from park decisions

People are spending 3-10k on this trip. People make a big deal out of getting to do the things they want to do. People create threads just to talk and discuss their plans... months before they even go. This isn't adlib stuff.. like deciding if I will get a donut or not this AM... people make this into a big deal. Not everyone goes to Disney 3 times a year.. for many this opportunity is few and far inbetween, and they have all kinds of coaching around them that they gotta get the best stuff.. so now it's being preached to them if you don't get this stuff, you're gonna lose out! So now the angst over 'missing out' is amplified before they even have experienced anything.

Personally I don't do much of it.. I think it's a PITA. For 40hrs a week I have a calendar of commitments and deadlines driving my life. I don't want my vacation time dominated by deadlines either. But I have experienced limited FP+ and ADR availability, and have had to adapt my park days based on the reservations you can get.. not necessarily the reservations you want. But many seem to have the magically touch and get whatever they want..

 

[flynnibus]

I don’t know what the “best” solution is but I do know that whenever a booking window opens, there will be a mad rush to book right on that time at WDW.

Imagine if we just flipped the entire system. Instead of FP/LL being something you go and get... what if it was something you were OFFERED? This turns the model around from a queuing model, to a distribution model.

Toyko operates like this with their lotteries. Basically you commit to be entered.. and 'winners' get drawn. Genie+ could be doing this rolling through the day. You set your preferences, and based on factors Disney offers guests passes. They either take them, or not.

The problem is people are conditioned now that LL/FP isn't a bonus or perk.. it's something they expect and won't tour without.

Lotteries can be weighted in ways that guests get better and better chances, basically guaranteeing a win, after being passed over enough. Example: every time you miss out, your number of entries in the pool is doubled.

You could even monetize the lottery by allowing people to pay up their allotment... but then counter act this with the weighting and re-use limits... this way the non-buyers don't get muscled out completely by the buyers.

Until Disney changes their marketing strategy about LL/FP - such a model would never fit because people are conditioned they these things should always be theirs to take.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Even if they have data showing it's preferred by guests, it's not practical right now because they can't project three months into the future. If they overestimate where they'll be in 90 days, they'll have to cancel reservations. If they underestimate and things do progressively get better, they'll still have to handle extra complaints during the initial booking window from folks unable to select decent attractions and likely don't have a fair or effective mechanism for communicating rolling releases of additional pass availability. They also potentially need a lot more staff for guest relations kiosks with FastPass because you're dealing with things Disney promised a long time ago. With Genie, they can react more nimbly to daily conditions, ride maintenance issues, public health concerns, staffing fluctuations, etc.

FP+ wasn't 3 months out. It was 60 days. It was only 90 days for guests staying in Club Level rooms who paid $50 per day per person (and it was all of the party or none) to get that privilege + extra selections beyond the 3 free ones.

 

[James Alucobond]

FP+ wasn't 3 months out. It was 60 days. It was only 90 days for guests staying in Club Level rooms who paid $50 per day per person (and it was all of the party or none) to get that privilege + extra selections beyond the 3 free ones.

So you could book between 60 and 90 days in advance depending on circumstance. Whether it's two or three months, the overall point I'm making is that they're unable to forecast circumstances that far into the future at the moment. This should not shock anyone. Many businesses were planning to have employees return to the office in January and literally just postponed for the umpteenth time last week. Disney is not immune to this volatility right now.

 

[gerarar]

So, getting a Rat BG wasn’t that hard tbh. Definitely not worth spending $11 per person (I had 8+ in my own party) for an ILL pass, unless you really want to book a “certain time” or are park hopping from a different origin park.

Also, with the ability to confirm your party ahead of time, it’s even more streamlined and less tapping!

As posted in the Rat thread:

Finally got my chance at the Rat boarding group virtual queue.

I had one device on time.gov, and as soon it hit xx:xx:00, tap the Refresh button and then immediately tap Join Virtual Queue button (which is in same place as refresh button).

Honestly wasn't that stressful as I would have imagined, but this is way easier then the ROTR boarding group system back in 2019 when you had to be in the park with everyone else around you trying for a BG, although the atmosphere was fun once everyone starts cheering and stuff lol

Got Boarding Group 3 though, could probably have waited an extra second to get a later group, but oh well lol
View attachment 609464

Also, sorry I haven't been able to post BG times this week, been very busy at the parks for our Christmas trip!!

 

[Nubs70]

If LL reservations are selling out too quick, the price is not high enough

 

[Patcheslee]

One big issue with WDW is that any system that has a set time for everyone to activate is going to have a mad rush to use at that time. Having it be a specific time online means that lots of people try simultaneously. Requiring park entry first will push more people to rope drop which can make it unwieldy and mob scene - also has an interesting question if the early entry works which would (a) give resort guests an advantage but (b) get complaints about spending time booking passes pushes into their “exclusive” park time.

Then again, do they let non resort guests tapstile in early? Would be interesting if non resort guests have a clear plan of attack while resort guests would be torn between going to rides or getting on the app and booking immediately upon entry.

FP+ definitely had a “benefit” in spreading out the booking times since everyone had different times when they were eligible to book for a given day. Yes, the 30 day window was a mad rush but I would think not as bad given the number of folks who already booked.

WDW suffers more than other places because of both the size/number of guests and also the generally touring styles compared to say DLR.

I don’t know what the “best” solution is but I do know that whenever a booking window opens, there will be a mad rush to book right on that time at WDW.

Why not offer it as the old with the old A-E ticket or carnival system? Purchase 10 credits to LL a day at $20. The amount of credits needed is based on the ride, so 7DMT 5 credits, but Tea Cups 1 credit. No time slots, guests will then have to choose between alot of smaller rides, or a couple larger ones. While many would use it on the larger rides, it would push them to standby other attractions at a faster pace since they have limited credits.

 

[JoeCamel]

Why not offer it as the old with the old A-E ticket or carnival system? Purchase 10 credits to LL a day at $20. The amount of credits needed is based on the ride, so 7DMT 5 credits, but Tea Cups 1 credit. No time slots, guests will then have to choose between alot of smaller rides, or a couple larger ones. While many would use it on the larger rides, it would push them to standby other attractions at a faster pace since they have limited credits.

How many old tickets do you have? I have many as you don't use them all leaving money n ey on the table. With LL as script the different ride prices may not use all credits

 

[Patcheslee]

How many old tickets do you have? I have many as you don't use them all leaving money n ey on the table. With LL as script the different ride prices may not use all credits

At carnivals we never left with tickets because it's not cheap. In Disney terms that's why the E tickets would be a single credit for LL. Or even cut attractions from the list completely but still have ones with a single credit required.

 

[mikejs78]

Yeah, I've never really understood this claim either. OK, they used code from FP+ to create the park reservation system, mangling it beyond all recognition in the process. So what? Are they not using literally any version control at all? I doubt it.

Would bringing back FP+ be more involved than simply copying old code? Sure, but this is not some intractable issue where the only solution was to start totally from scratch. And while starting from scratch is a frequent temptation in software development, it very often results in more problems than it solves. As we're seeing now.

Disney was never going to just bring back FP+, but it wasn't because resurrecting an old, kind of crappy system was more difficult than creating a new, even crappier one.

It's not just code - think databases. If they are now storing park reservations in the FastPass tables, they can't simply reuse the code, especially if they didn't decouple well.

So you could book between 60 and 90 days in advance depending on circumstance. Whether it's two or three months, the overall point I'm making is that they're unable to forecast circumstances that far into the future at the moment. This should not shock anyone. Many businesses were planning to have employees return to the office in January and literally just postponed for the umpteenth time last week. Disney is not immune to this volatility right now.

So move it to a week before. All I want Is to not have to have a mad dash every single day of my vacation at 7:00 a.m.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

So you could book between 60 and 90 days in advance depending on circumstance. Whether it's two or three months, the overall point I'm making is that they're unable to forecast circumstances that far into the future at the moment. This should not shock anyone. Many businesses were planning to have employees return to the office in January and literally just postponed for the umpteenth time last week. Disney is not immune to this volatility right now.

Disney knows there are 2 possibilities: the parks are open or the parks are closed. If they close, then advanced bookings mean nothing. It can't be that Park Reservations help them plan staffing levels AND they can't offer FP+/LL in advance because they don't know what will happen in the future. It doesn't even have to be 2 months out. Make it 30 days or even just a week. If free FP+was still the system in use then there wouldn't be any need to worry about refunds if a ride breaks down or a guest cancels their trip. They don't have any issues taking room reservations months in advance and those are equally impacted by the pandemic (and help them know what staffing levels are needed for room cleaning, front desk, etc.).

 

[lazyboy97o]

Disney knows there are 2 possibilities: the parks are open or the parks are closed. If they close, then advanced bookings mean nothing. It can't be that Park Reservations help them plan staffing levels AND they can't offer FP+/LL in advance because they don't know what will happen in the future. It doesn't even have to be 2 months out. Make it 30 days or even just a week. If free FP+was still the system in use then there wouldn't be any need to worry about refunds if a ride breaks down or a guest cancels their trip. They don't have any issues taking room reservations months in advance and those are equally impacted by the pandemic (and help them know what staffing levels are needed for room cleaning, front desk, etc.).

Virtual queuers require more capacity so it means less flexibility. You don’t need three hotel rooms for every two reservations. A restaurant being closed may impact desirability of staying at a hotel but it doesn’t impact room inventory.

 

[LittleBuford]

All I want Is to not have to have a mad dash every single day of my vacation at 7:00 a.m.

Sung to the tune of Mariah Carey's festive classic!

 

[James Alucobond]

Disney knows there are 2 possibilities: the parks are open or the parks are closed.

What has been said multiple times is that it's not as simple as this binary. The amount of capacity Disney has to support folks in the virtual queue is highly variable at the moment because it's not the same as just calculating space in line. They need shops, entertainment venues, and restaurants open to provide capacity while they're not actually occupying space at the attraction they have reserved, particularly when they have three reserved at once with ample space between. Unfortunately, many of these services are shuttered or having trouble operating efficiently due to staffing issues and supply shortages. You can't solely leave it up to other attractions to pick up the slack either even if some have very low wait times. Most guests aren't just going to sit around looping Journey of the Little Mermaid 20 times out of respect for the lack of capacity elsewhere.

 

[Chi84]

So move it to a week before. All I want Is to not have to have a mad dash every single day of my vacation at 7:00 a.m.

Many have criticized Genie+ for being overly complex and difficult to use/understand. That wasn't my experience, except for a few glitches that may have been attributable to the fact that we used it the very first week of its existence. But it does have some aggravating features, chief of which is the one you mentioned.

On prior vacations, I started my day by getting a length-of-stay cup full of coffee and taking a leisurely stroll around the resort until my husband was ready to meet me for breakfast. This last trip, I had to set an alarm, take my phone into the bathroom so as not to disturb my husband and deal with buying or scheduling rides at times that would work for us. Kind of a jarring start to a vacation day (not saying this is true for everyone).

I know that people have different vacation styles and preferences, but I suspect that this need to compete for rides at 7 am is going to be the first thing that has to change in order to make Genie+ acceptable to enough people to call it a success. Hopefully it won't come with an additional charge, but I'm not terribly optimistic. I'm determined to be flexible and open-minded enough to give the system a couple of tries before I conclude it's a deal-breaker for us.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

What has been said multiple times is that it's not as simple as this binary. The amount of capacity Disney has to support folks in the virtual queue is highly variable at the moment because it's not the same as just calculating space in line. They need shops, entertainment venues, and restaurants open to provide capacity while they're not actually occupying space at the attraction they have reserved, particularly when they have three reserved at once with ample space between. Unfortunately, many of these services are shuttered or having trouble operating efficiently due to staffing issues and supply shortages. You can't solely leave it up to other attractions to pick up the slack either even if some have very low wait times. Most guests aren't just going to sit around looping Journey of the Little Mermaid 20 times out of respect for the lack of capacity elsewhere.

But the current system allows guests to stack more than 3 LL selections at a time and you can hold spots in multiple parks at once, so is it really any better in that regard? It seems to me that G+ could make that situation worse because not only can you hold more virtual spots in line at once but guests are encouraged to spend more time in the parks "to get their money's worth," so the crowds last longer throughout the day.

 

[lazyboy97o]

But the current system allows guests to stack more than 3 LL selections at a time and you can hold spots in multiple parks at once, so is it really any better in that regard? It seems to me that G+ could make that situation worse because not only can you hold more virtual spots in line at once but guests are encouraged to spend more time in the parks "to get their money's worth," so the crowds last longer throughout the day.

It’s not about how many spaces a single person is able to stack, it’s about the total being made available and used.

 

[Minnesota disney fan]

I've read most of this thread, Wow, and I just wonder if it has been disney's plan and end game to charge for FP, as has been stated on here many times. People get upset and frustrated with Genie + and Ills(what a good name for it) and start stating that it might be better to just pay for fast pass. Could they be that devious? I don't know, but the end result seems to be swinging to that conclusion for some.