Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[UNCgolf]

I'm not sure why you're all still arguing with him. He contradicts himself in some posts, and when people post evidence that directly counters something he's said, he just ignores it and doesn't respond to them.

He's already shown he doesn't actually understand what he's talking about and seems unwilling to learn. It's a waste of time to discuss something with a person who fundamentally misunderstands the topic.

 

[el_super]

You claim people are fallible, and in the next paragraph present Disney execs as perfectly logical, omniscient managers. It’s mad.

That just means that I am not going to assume I know more than they do.

Or that they are acting in bad faith.

Or that they won't have the opportunity to correct their mistakes, if they actually are mistakes.

A lot of people though Fastpass was a mistake when it was rolled out. So now that they are replacing it with Genie+, is that to suggest that Fastpass was a mistake that they just had to endure for 20 years?

 

[el_super]

As is sacrificing longevity in the name of immediate returns...which they are actively doing.

How long is it going to take before those sacrifices are realized ? Again, some of us have been waiting decades.

 

[el_super]

He's already shown he doesn't actually understand what he's talking about and seems unwilling to learn. It's a waste of time to discuss something with a person who fundamentally misunderstands the topic.

Again, it's just that the biggest offense here is suggesting that Disney might be right?

The fans keep suggesting that they know best, and then when Disney doesn't do what the fans expect, there are no consequences.

If you're so confident that they MUST add capacity, when do you think they will do it and ultimately what will be the consequences when they don't?

How long do we have to wait for those dreaded consequences to manifest?

 

[lazyboy97o]

It seems pretty logical, especially in this case, that the people who work at Disney, the people who make the decisions, those whom their livelihoods are at stake, would be motivated to make good decisions based on all the data available to them. It seems silly to think that someone on the internet "doing their own research" would somehow have a better grasp at the people who literally work on this day and night and have more at stake in making the right decisions.

This isn’t just people making up what they want. It is industry information discussed by the likes of Buzz Price who has been quoted by others.

People are bound by circumstance. Anyone in operations pushing for more capacity is bound by the problem that there is currently no cost effecting way of adding capacity. You keep trying to silo everything and ignore the big picture and interplays.

In what world do parks not grow after they are built?

The problem isn’t that they are growing, it’s that they weren’t profitable meaning Disney
made a mistake.

Do you think they will be adding any new capacity to MK anytime in the next 10 years?

They are right now…

 

[hopemax]

I just rode FOP on Tuesday 11/23, waited 140 mins and that was getting in line at 7:40am pre opening as a resort guest and when we got to the end of the line, that cast member told us they average 200 people every 5 minutes, so 2400 average hourly capacity........

The CM was mistaken, or your math is wrong. There are 4 theaters. Each theater has 3 levels,16 people per level or a total of 48 people per theater. 192 people if all 4 theaters are operating, and all banshees are working, which often they are not. I'm not even sure the last time I was in a cabin with 8 working banshees. If the theater can do 7 cycles per hour that's 1344 people. If it can do 8 cycles its 1536.

7 cycles means guests are being loaded, watched a 5 minute movie, unloaded about every 8 and a half minutes. 8 cycles means it's 7 and a half minutes. You can quibble if it's between 1344 or 1536 but what it definitely is not is 2400pph, because the math is impossible.

Your number of 2400 divided by 192 means they have to be running 12.5 cycles per hour. 12 cycles per hour means each cycle lasts 5 minutes. The movie is 5 minutes, meaning there would be no time to load and unload. How long have you been sitting on your banshee waiting for people to get locked in?

 

[flynnibus]

I love how you can readily compare today to 1998 as if things are readily interchangeable... or how the progression from point A to B can be solely attributed to one aspect. This world he lives in is fascinating..

I mean... crowding hasn't gone away, it must be due to adding attractions right? I mean... it wouldn't have anything to do with things like.. I dunno... exploding Annual Passholder populations during the same time period? Operational changes? Expanding marketing with events? Nope... it's gotta be the attraction strategy alone. My job here is done... send me my check.

 

[Jrb1979]

That only works if reducing the expenses has no negative impact on revenues. Which is pretty much aligned to what I was saying: they cut the rides that people weren't riding.




In what ways? For people waiting in line, how is it different? I've often wondered if people having cell phones made them more tolerant of longer lines, but I honesty have no real evidence to suggest one way or another. A lot of attractions just seem to max out around 60 minutes, and that's been the case as long as I can remember.




In what world do parks not grow after they are built?




Fastpass+ was great at controlling crowds, until it ended up generating crowds on it's own.

Do you think they will be adding any new capacity to MK anytime in the next 10 years?

The problem with this argument that is going on is you're talking about crowd management and everyone else is saying they need more attractions in parks not named MK. Two completely different things.

My conclusion is still that they lately they have no idea how to run parks day to day anymore.

That just means that I am not going to assume I know more than they do.

Or that they are acting in bad faith.

Or that they won't have the opportunity to correct their mistakes, if they actually are mistakes.

A lot of people though Fastpass was a mistake when it was rolled out. So now that they are replacing it with Genie+, is that to suggest that Fastpass was a mistake that they just had to endure for 20 years?

Fastpass and Genie+ are mistakes. It's mainly in what they use them for. Every other park uses to not only to increase the bottom line but also to let those that do buy it have shorter waits as it's limited to who can buy it.

Again, it's just that the biggest offense here is suggesting that Disney might be right?

The fans keep suggesting that they know best, and then when Disney doesn't do what the fans expect, there are no consequences.

If you're so confident that they MUST add capacity, when do you think they will do it and ultimately what will be the consequences when they don't?

How long do we have to wait for those dreaded consequences to manifest?

They won't ever be adding enough capacity to any parks. It has nothing to do with crowding but more in how slow they build things.

IMO I won't be surprised when there is a lot of availability resort wide. After the holidays I foresee the revenge travel bubble bursting. Not sure how many can afford $173 a night for All Stars resort. Once you compare it to Universal's Endless Summer resort and can pay $109 for a suite you can see how expensive Disney is.

 

[el_super]

This isn’t just people making up what they want. It is industry information discussed by the likes of Buzz Price who has been quoted by others.

Ok that is funny, after suggesting that I was using an old model, to reference Buzz.

People are bound by circumstance. Anyone in operations pushing for more capacity is bound by the problem that there is currently no cost effecting way of adding capacity. You keep trying to silo everything and ignore the big picture and interplays.

I'm not, I know it's more complicated than any of us have time for here, and I definitely don't count myself as an expert.

But I also don't believe that anyone here is really an expert either. The experts are the ones making the decisions.

The problem isn’t that they are growing, it’s that they weren’t profitable meaning Disney
made a mistake.

So what's the mistake exactly? Building them at all or continuing to invest in them? You think they should close them?

They are right now…

So you think Tron is going to fix the capacity problems? Or do you think they need more attractions?

What happens when they don't build anything after Tron?

 

[el_super]

I love how you can readily compare today to 1998 as if things are readily interchangeable...

Buzz Price!

I mean... crowding hasn't gone away, it must be due to adding attractions right? I mean... it wouldn't have anything to do with things like.. I dunno... exploding Annual Passholder populations during the same time period? Operational changes? Expanding marketing with events? Nope... it's gotta be the attraction strategy alone. My job here is done... send me my check.

Wait... I think you might have actually got something here. That maybe there is a way to control crowding with things outside of attractions? Things like ticket media or operational changes. Something beyond just building more attractions.

 

[lazyboy97o]

So what's the mistake exactly? Building them at all or continuing to invest in them? You think they should close them?

Losing money is now not a mistake for a business? Talk about reaching.

 

[el_super]

Do you extend the same benefit of the doubt to politicians? Journalists? Everyone?

Of course.

And FP+ was absolutely a mistake. It broke the parks in ways that have only grown worse. FP original is more grey.

And yet people are clamoring for it to return. What would you say to the people here that think it's a mistake to move to a paid system and just want the free system back? Or to the people that hate having to make day-of decisions and want to revert back to hyper-planning? Are they wrong to think so?

What exactly was the mistake in building a system people want?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Buzz Price!

If you hired AECOM or MR Pro Fun or anyone else to do a a feasibility and programming study right now they’d use all of the same metrics.

 

[el_super]

Losing money is now not a mistake for a business? Talk about reaching.

I know it is. What I'm asking is, should they admit it was a mistake to build the parks at all and just close up shop? What is your solution to the problems that Disney is too dumb to figure out?

 

[el_super]

If you hired AECOM or MR Pro Fun or anyone else to do a a feasibility and programming study right now they’d use all of the same metrics.

And they would come back and say that Magic Kingdom can't be as popular as it is because it lacks capacity?

What's more accurate here, the model or the reality of the situation on the ground?

 

[lazyboy97o]

I know it is. What I'm asking is, should they admit it was a mistake to build the parks at all and just close up shop? What is your solution to the problems that Disney is too dumb to figure out?

You’ve repeatedly said Disney doesn’t make mistakes. That’s the issue. You’re trying to claim Disney is always right and wash away or spin clear mistakes.

 

[lazyboy97o]

And they would come back and say that Magic Kingdom can't be as popular as it is because it lacks capacity?

What's more accurate here, the model or the reality of the situation on the ground?

Again with the deliberate confusion of concepts.

 

[el_super]

You’ve repeatedly said Disney doesn’t make mistakes. That’s the issue. You’re trying to claim Disney is always right and wash away or spin clear mistakes.

Of course Disney makes mistakes. That's something you are attributing to me instead of directly answering my questions. It's a deflection.

Again with the deliberate confusion of concepts.

Do you think they are going to add another ride after Tron? And if they don't what do you think the consequence will be?

Seems like a pretty simple question.

 

[Thepuma]

That’s funny. I’m also here and did not bother with G+ for AK. I’m not sure if it would have saved me any time outside of maybe 10 minutes for the safari

I actually think the weird pro and con of Genie+ is because it’s so highly variable one can actually pick and choose rather than always get it.

Versus somewhere like Disneyland I think it would always make sense to have outside of very slow periods.

Yeah, I must add that day we did 2 parks, AK then MK at about 2pm...we rope dropped AVATAR.. (45 mins) LL for

Do you extend the same benefit of the doubt to politicians? Journalists? Everyone?

And FP+ was absolutely a mistake. It broke the parks in ways that have only grown worse. FP original is more grey.

To be honest...in the 10 times we came before the pandemic, the FP+ system made the day worthwhile..made it enjoyable and was a fair system.

Genie is not only more expensive, its inferior in so many ways.

And let's be honest, nobody likes paying MORE to get LESS.

It is what it is though...it has driven us away but I doubt Disney care as they have hundreds of thousands willing to put up with their system day in day out

 

[Jeff4272]

That’s funny. I’m also here and did not bother with G+ for AK. I’m not sure if it would have saved me any time outside of maybe 10 minutes for the safari

I actually think the weird pro and con of Genie+ is because it’s so highly variable one can actually pick and choose rather than always get it.

Versus somewhere like Disneyland I think it would always make sense to have outside of very slow periods.

exact opposite.....when its busy, its not worth it because you cant get more than one and when its slower, like now, you dont need it

ETA: Sorry i misread your post, ignore mine!