Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[el_super]

You refuse to believe it can be answered because Disney shifted after Euro Disney from 1.5 attractions per guest per hour to 7.3 attractions per day. You’ve already said you reject any answer that contradicts Disney and are acknowledged you are deliberately confusing topics to prevent an answer.

At this point you are just denying the reality that exists in order to fit your agenda. What's the point? You want to keep insisting that the parks need more capacity, that they need to build more attractions, and yet when they don't, there's no consequences to Disney.

I like the idea that the most offensive thing that can be posted on this board, is that Disney *might* actually know how to operate their theme parks, or even dare suggestion they might be good at it.

You want to believe you are right about this, and will continue to say that Disney doesn't know how to run their parks, but year after year you keep getting proven wrong. We all know how this is going to play out: Tron will open at MK next year. The crowds will come back post-covid and while some things like entertainment will come back, they will probably end up closing another attraction (probably in Tomorrowland). They might replace it with something small (Baymax) but past that, it will just be re-themes and overlays to get MK all the way to 2032 when they might get their next major attraction.

The park attendance will level out, revenues will start to increase and everything will go back to "normal." And when this capacity drought continues for another 10 years, or another 20 years, or another 30 years, what then? Do you come back and admit that you were wrong or do you hold steady to the idea that they just don't know how to run their parks?

 

[el_super]

If you think they're okay with it, I've got a bridge to sell you.

Well, our goal is to improve the guest experience, while at the same time being able to yield​

that in ways that we haven't done before. And again, the shutdown enabled us a chance to sort​

of reengineer things, and build the systems necessary to do that.​

​

The backbone of the whole thing, though, is our reservation system, because it gives us the​

ability now to really, on a real-time basis, direct people, ensure that we have the right mix of​

guests in the park, and control the demand in ways that, frankly, we've never been able to do.​

​

That then enables all the consumer interfaces that we've recently put in place, things like Genie​

- either the free part of Genie, the complimentary, if you will, part of Genie - that's going to​

improve everyone's visit to our parks and ensure that they minimize wait times and maximize​

the fun, if you will.​

​

But at the same time, it's also an enabler for our Magic Key program at Disneyland Resort, and​

our new annual pass program at Walt Disney World. So that reservation system is really key to​

do all those. But each one of those, because it really changes the mix of who comes on what​

day, also gives us a chance to benefit our shareholders and manage that yielding process.​

​

So it's all made possible by the reservation system, but we have several interfaces at the same​

time that each guest can take advantage of to essentially customize and personalize their​

experience in a way that they couldn't do before.​

​

Bob Chapek – Chief Executive Officer, The Walt Disney Company​

 

[BrianLo]

2) Nope....Rise LL+ went about 40 minutes BEFORE the alloted LL window....leaving my Genie Plus reservation pointless as we then had to Rope Drope ROTR and the G+ we had reserved had expired before we manged to get over there after Rise.

I think this is where you went wrong. As a non resort guest you aren’t really at the rope drop. You lost out on other low waits, your LL and triggering another LL booking before the 11am ‘2 hour’ drop.

 

[SteveAZee]

There's only one problem...pricing people out erodes the good will they've been riding on...as we're seeing on these very forums. They need to address the root issue - failure to expand capacity in all of the parks, or this WILL come back to bite them in one form or another. They can't have their cake and eat it, too...it's mathematically impossible.

It would be interesting to know how many guests will feel 'incomplete' with a WDW vacation if they don't get a chance to ride the headliner attractions. It seems like that's a real 'good will' issue. It's one thing to have an attraction down for refurb or upgrades or whatever, but if it becomes excruciatingly complex or expensive to go on RoR or FoP, it SEEMS like people will feel like they've missed out.

LOL, I'll stick with the idea of them building a 5th park called "Just E's" that are exact clones of all of the resort's E-ticket attractions that they charge $$$$ for.

 

[Jeff4272]

It would be interesting to know how many guests will feel 'incomplete' with a WDW vacation if they don't get a chance to ride the headliner attractions. It seems like that's a real 'good will' issue. It's one thing to have an attraction down for refurb or upgrades or whatever, but if it becomes excruciatingly complex or expensive to go on RoR or FoP, it SEEMS like people will feel like they've missed out.

LOL, I'll stick with the idea of them building a 5th park called "Just E's" that are exact clones of all of the resort's E-ticket attractions that they charge $$$$ for.

i'm one.......ive been dozens of times and we even got on the rides (FOP and ROTR 2 main ones) and we were still very disappointed because we had to wait so long after not getting ILLs due to app failure.......

It was my worst trip ive been on..

 

[Casper Gutman]

At this point you are just denying the reality that exists in order to fit your agenda. What's the point? You want to keep insisting that the parks need more capacity, that they need to build more attractions, and yet when they don't, there's no consequences to Disney.

I like the idea that the most offensive thing that can be posted on this board, is that Disney *might* actually know how to operate their theme parks, or even dare suggestion they might be good at it.

You want to believe you are right about this, and will continue to say that Disney doesn't know how to run their parks, but year after year you keep getting proven wrong. We all know how this is going to play out: Tron will open at MK next year. The crowds will come back post-covid and while some things like entertainment will come back, they will probably end up closing another attraction (probably in Tomorrowland). They might replace it with something small (Baymax) but past that, it will just be re-themes and overlays to get MK all the way to 2032 when they might get their next major attraction.

The park attendance will level out, revenues will start to increase and everything will go back to "normal." And when this capacity drought continues for another 10 years, or another 20 years, or another 30 years, what then? Do you come back and admit that you were wrong or do you hold steady to the idea that they just don't know how to run their parks?

Your faith in corporate leadership is amazing.

Have you read much corporate history? About any type of major corporation?

 

[el_super]

It’s offensive because it is nothing more than a lame strategy to try and shut down conversation. You are so fixated that Disney has to be right that you don’t see the glaring contradictions and are deliberately ignoring the larger context. The evidence you keep pointing to proof that you are right is when Disneyland was operated at its worst resulting in rides literally failing and people being killed.

I used one specific point in time as an example of why adding attraction doesn't resolve crowding issues, and why something like Fastpass or Genie+ is still necessary.

You are insisting that the parks are under built and under capacity despite literally decades of increasing attendance, increasing revenues and general wealth and prosperity of the Disney Theme park empire.

If you want to suggest that somehow this lack of capacity is hurting the parks, where is the proof? Where is the evidence? By what metrics are we measuring it? If the end result is that the lack of capacity led to higher attendance and higher revenue, then it's not really a problem at all.

You're ignoring decades of theme park results in order to hold onto a fan dream that if they just built 27 more e-tickets, everything would be fine. It's not reality and I think you know that.

 

[el_super]

Your faith in corporate leadership is amazing.

Have you read much corporate history? About any type of major corporation?

Yeah I know... SOMEDAY they will be sorry. SOMEDAY their fans will turn on them and the parks will be empty. SOMEDAY the fans will be proven right.

A lot of people have been waiting decades for that SOMEDAY. How many more decades do we need to wait? I'll mark my calendar and be sure to sell my stock.

 

[Touchdown]

Someday when we are wiser…

 

[Texas84]

I’ve figured that out, maybe this is what @RSoxNo1 is having troubles with. You have to set up ‘your day’ first. Where you tell it your preferences You can’t click the little link to buy Genie Plus from the get go. After you do that I found that link worked.

No idea how I put that together between 6:55-7am in bed, but there you go.

Edit - albeit I’m on just a regular ticket and not an annual pass, but for whatever reason I’m also having that error. My ticket was rebooked from 1.5 years ago.

I did do the preferences in advance. It's because of the AP.

 

[Thepuma]

I think this is where you went wrong. As a non resort guest you aren’t really at the rope drop. You lost out on other low waits, your LL and triggering another LL booking before the 11am ‘2 hour’ drop.

Yep, you are 100% correct. Thing is, it was first time using the new system and me (like hundreds of thousands of others every day) didn't really see how it would pan out. I nievely thought I'd be in a rat race on the app at 9am at HS snagging a late ROTR LL...so I booked a Genie for 9.05am on this understanding...then when ROTR sold out I was in the queue for the park getting through security, going through the entry queue and in a stampede at the very time I was trying to sort the LL and Genie + situation.

I now know better (I hope)..but every day is different I guess.

Strangley enough I've found Genie+ has worked best for me as AK....and worst at MK...contrary to the popular thoughts on it.

Just looking forward now to actually enjoying my days in Busch,Seaworld and Unoversals where I don't have to walk round glued to my phone all day missing the enjoyment of the park.

 

[el_super]

You picked the time when Disney shifted their strategy and design day goals. The time when attractions were being closed to increase crowding and artificially create growth.

You think closing attractions creates growth?

The time when cost cutting killed people and they got lucky it didn’t kill more. The time when Disney built multiple parks that have all required billions of dollars in additional funding to try and make them into viable commercial enterprises. That’s the evidence, they keep spending huge sums to try and make their strategy work.

No, I purposefully picked the time that they added many attractions and saw tremendous growth, and it didn't solve crowding issues.

They are spending money to expand parks and increase attendance. That's not surprising or weird. That's how theme parks work.

They are not spending money to add attractions in order to manage capacity. Hong Kong Disneyland and WDSP are not overflowing with attendance and crowding problems that need to be actively managed. Magic Kingdom is. Disneyland is. These are the top two highest attended parks on the planet.

And just so we're clear here:

New attractions = growth in attendance and crowding.
Genie+ and Fastpass = Crowd management solutions.

You don't add new attractions to manage crowds. No theme park does this.

 

[BrianLo]

Strangley enough I've found Genie+ has worked best for me as AK....and worst at MK...contrary to the popular thoughts on it.

That’s funny. I’m also here and did not bother with G+ for AK. I’m not sure if it would have saved me any time outside of maybe 10 minutes for the safari

I actually think the weird pro and con of Genie+ is because it’s so highly variable one can actually pick and choose rather than always get it.

Versus somewhere like Disneyland I think it would always make sense to have outside of very slow periods.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Yeah I know... SOMEDAY they will be sorry. SOMEDAY their fans will turn on them and the parks will be empty. SOMEDAY the fans will be proven right.

A lot of people have been waiting decades for that SOMEDAY. How many more decades do we need to wait? I'll mark my calendar and be sure to sell my stock.

Cool. Read much corporate history, or do you view executives as distant deities, infallible in wisdom?

Also, do you think Disney is behaving like a healthy company right now?

 

[lazyboy97o]

You think closing attractions creates growth?

No, I purposefully picked the time that they added many attractions and saw tremendous growth, and it didn't solve crowding issues.

They are spending money to expand parks and increase attendance. That's not surprising or weird. That's how theme parks work.

They are not spending money to add attractions in order to manage capacity. Hong Kong Disneyland and WDSP are not overflowing with attendance and crowding problems that need to be actively managed. Magic Kingdom is. Disneyland is. These are the top two highest attended parks on the planet.

And just so we're clear here:

New attractions = growth in attendance and crowding.
Genie+ and Fastpass = Crowd management solutions.

You don't add new attractions to manage crowds. No theme park does this.

Reducing expenses creates the look of growth.

For like the 1000th time, crowding is relative. Crowding 25 years ago is not the same as it is today.

Those parks were supposed to be just the right size. They were not, which means Disney was wrong, but you keep telling us Disney is always right.

New attractions do not always drive new attendance. FastPass+ didn’t control crowds. It didn’t control the need for capacity and two clones were dropped in.

 

[el_super]

Cool. Read much corporate history, or do you view executives as distant dirties, infallible in wisdom?

I have read a lot and I'm no stranger to corporate history. Mistakes do happen and people are fallible.

But with Disney? In this case? Not even close.

It seems pretty logical, especially in this case, that the people who work at Disney, the people who make the decisions, those whom their livelihoods are at stake, would be motivated to make good decisions based on all the data available to them. It seems silly to think that someone on the internet "doing their own research" would somehow have a better grasp at the people who literally work on this day and night and have more at stake in making the right decisions.

Also, do you think Disney is behaving like a healthy company right now?

All things considered, yeah they're doing alright. Things are obviously a little weird with COVID right now, but things are looking up.

The one thing that I think they are wavering on though, the area where I am seeing the most indecision is with the AP reservations at Disneyland. We can chalk that up to a soft domestic tourism market at the moment, but the fact that the guests are demanding more availability and Disney is giving it to them, seems to indicate they might falter on their strategy of lower attendance = higher growth. I don't think they've admitted the mistake and thrown in the towel quite yet, but they are getting closer and closer.

They seem to be pretty sure of how things are working at Walt Disney World.

 

[el_super]

Reducing expenses creates the look of growth.

That only works if reducing the expenses has no negative impact on revenues. Which is pretty much aligned to what I was saying: they cut the rides that people weren't riding.

For like the 1000th time, crowding is relative. Crowding 25 years ago is not the same as it is today.

In what ways? For people waiting in line, how is it different? I've often wondered if people having cell phones made them more tolerant of longer lines, but I honesty have no real evidence to suggest one way or another. A lot of attractions just seem to max out around 60 minutes, and that's been the case as long as I can remember.

Those parks were supposed to be just the right size. They were not, which means Disney was wrong, but you keep telling us Disney is always right.

In what world do parks not grow after they are built?

New attractions do not always drive new attendance. FastPass+ didn’t control crowds. It didn’t control the need for capacity and two clones were dropped in.

Fastpass+ was great at controlling crowds, until it ended up generating crowds on it's own.

Do you think they will be adding any new capacity to MK anytime in the next 10 years?

 

[Beacon Joe]

Does this Genie thing work on older versions of iOS?

 

[Casper Gutman]

I have read a lot and I'm no stranger to corporate history. Mistakes do happen and people are fallible.

But with Disney? In this case? Not even close.

It seems pretty logical, especially in this case, that the people who work at Disney, the people who make the decisions, those whom their livelihoods are at stake, would be motivated to make good decisions based on all the data available to them. It seems silly to think that someone on the internet "doing their own research" would somehow have a better grasp at the people who literally work on this day and night and have more at stake in making the right decisions.




All things considered, yeah they're doing alright. Things are obviously a little weird with COVID right now, but things are looking up.

The one thing that I think they are wavering on though, the area where I am seeing the most indecision is with the AP reservations at Disneyland. We can chalk that up to a soft domestic tourism market at the moment, but the fact that the guests are demanding more availability and Disney is giving it to them, seems to indicate they might falter on their strategy of lower attendance = higher growth. I don't think they've admitted the mistake and thrown in the towel quite yet, but they are getting closer and closer.

They seem to be pretty sure of how things are working at Walt Disney World.

You claim people are fallible, and in the next paragraph present Disney execs as perfectly logical, omniscient managers. It’s mad.

And generally, when top executives are micromanaging to the level of cutting individual portion sizes, dodging the public for fear of catcalls, and desperately trying not to mention the third new crowd-management system they’ve flailingly implemented in several years, there are warning signs.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

You claim people are fallible, and in the next paragraph present Disney execs as perfectly logical, omniscient managers. It’s mad.

And generally, when top executives are micromanaging to the level of cutting individual portion sizes, dodging the public for fear of catcalls, and desperately trying not to mention the third new crowd-management system they’ve flailingly implemented in several years, there are warning signs.

As is sacrificing longevity in the name of immediate returns...which they are actively doing.