Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[Casper Gutman]

This is a forum that helps people plan their trips. How many families do you think are making decisions about their WDW vacation based on “the larger systems” as opposed to their personal preferences? Personal preferences are pretty much everything when it comes to planning.

It’s fine to have discussions about the larger systems - this is an open discussion forum - but it’s ridiculous to rebuke people for considering their personal preferences as paramount.

This isn’t the trip planning forum. There’s a specific board all set up for that elsewhere on wdwmagic.

 

[LittleBuford]

Have you never used line-skipping services at Disney?

@lazyboy97o, I wasn’t being rhetorical; it’s a genuine question. Perhaps you haven’t, in which case I respect the strength of your convictions. Or perhaps you have, in which case I’d be curious to know why my usage is any more deserving of rebuke than yours.

 

[lazyboy97o]

This is a forum that helps people plan their trips. How many families do you think are making decisions about their WDW vacation based on “the larger systems” as opposed to their personal preferences? Personal preferences are pretty much everything when it comes to planning.

It’s fine to have discussions about the larger systems - this is an open discussion forum - but it’s ridiculous to rebuke people for considering their personal preferences as paramount.

The issue isn’t people considering their preferences. It’s insisting that the system fit those specific preferences and dismissing critiques not because they are untrue but because of those preferences.

@lazyboy97o, I wasn’t being rhetorical; it’s a genuine question,

I don’t discuss my personal visits.

 

[LittleBuford]

I don’t discuss my personal visits.

I can only take that as a yes.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I can only take that as a yes.

Of course you would. But what I may or may not do doesn’t change the math that you keep trying to wave away as mere personal preference.

 

[Chi84]

This isn’t the trip planning forum. There’s a specific board all set up for that elsewhere on wdwmagic.

The entire site is used for trip planning. I would imagine most people who visit this site kind of like WDW and actually plan on visiting again sometime. Maybe we need a forum dedicated to guests who are no longer interested in visiting WDW and want to make sure everyone else knows why.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I can only take that as a yes.

It. Doesn’t. Matter.

We are discussing whether the system is broken. Which it is. Not individual usage.

And I admire Lazys restraint about personal details on social media.

 

[LittleBuford]

According to the logic of this forum, those who use a supposedly objectionable service willingly are worse than those who use the very same service begrudgingly. That seems backwards to me. If any group deserves to be reprimanded (and to be clear, I myself don’t think either group does), surely it’s the one whose members believe the service to be unethical yet utilise it anyway.

 

[LittleBuford]

It. Doesn’t. Matter.

We are discussing whether the system is broken. Which it is. Not individual usage.

And I admire Lazys restraint about personal details on social media.

It matters when people take it upon themselves to pontificate about things of which they themselves are “guilty”.

 

[Casper Gutman]

The entire site is used for trip planning.

I pity anyone trying to use the very esoteric and often pedantic discussions that populate this “News” forum for general trip planning.

 

[lazyboy97o]

According to the logic of this forum, those who use a supposedly objectionable service willingly are worse than those who use it begrudgingly. That seems backwards to me. If any group deserves to be reprimanded (and to be clear, I myself don’t think either group does), surely it’s the one whose members believe the service to be unethical yet utilise it anyway.

You’re the only one who keeps pushing this.

 

[hopemax]

The thing is that just all parks have a skip the line system. Disney seems to be the only one that has as many complaints about a skip the line system. IMO Genie+ could have been a success if they went the Universal route. Disney's fault is they continue to see Skip the Line as a system to move guests around.

It's because the numbers do not work with the capacity Disney has, the demand Disney has, and the ride capacity Disney allocates to the line skip. If all those other parks had the same ratios Disney has they would perform just as poorly. I guarantee if Cedar Point only had 4 roller coasters (lets say the ones on Fast Lane Plus) in the park and not 16, their line skip would blow up things just as bad as anything happening at WDW right now. For Fast Lane Plus, which includes the best coasters it even specifically says "A very limited number of passes are available each day." Unlike Disney which tried to make 80% of daily ride capacity use the skip option.

The other parks *know* when you offer too many people the option to skip, things break. If Cedar Point sold 80% of those rides capacity via Fast Lane Plus like Disney and FP+, it would break. I don't even think Disney can offer Universal's Express pass because demand is still >>> available capacity because people have been trained that you have to skip or your day will be ruined. Disney is the one with the most complaints because they're the ones with system that isn't designed for their crowd makeup and ride expectations. But like I said to you earlier, people will only believe it when things are so bad that every seat on the top rides are sold via line skip and it still sells out in minutes and people can't claim their seat in musical chairs ahead of other people.

 

[LittleBuford]

You’re the only one who keeps pushing this.

Not really. You quoted my post as an example of “why there is any sort of rebuking”. Can you explain why my usage of line-skipping services is any more deserving of censure than, say, @sedati’s or @Casper Gutman’s?

 

[Jrb1979]

It's because the numbers do not work with the capacity Disney has, the demand Disney has, and the ride capacity Disney allocates to the line skip. If all those other parks had the same ratios Disney has they would perform just as poorly. I guarantee if Cedar Point only had 4 roller coasters (lets say the ones on Fast Lane Plus) in the park and not 16, their line skip would blow up things just as bad as anything happening at WDW right now. For Fast Lane Plus, which includes the best coasters it even specifically says "A very limited number of passes are available each day." Unlike Disney which tried to make 80% of daily ride capacity use the skip option.

The other parks *know* when you offer too many people the option to skip, things break. If Cedar Point sold 80% of those rides capacity via Fast Lane Plus like Disney and FP+, it would break. I don't even think Disney can offer Universal's Express pass because demand is still >>> available capacity because people have been trained that you have to skip or your day will be ruined. Disney is the one with the most complaints because they're the ones with system that isn't designed for their crowd makeup and ride expectations. But like I said to you earlier, people will only believe it when things are so bad that every seat on the top rides are sold via line skip and it still sells out in minutes and people can't claim their seat in musical chairs ahead of other people.

It's why I keep saying Disney needs to stop making every ride marketable and start putting in more rides like Aliens Swirling Saucers. I still standby the notion they need a B&M in every park.

 

[Chi84]

I pity anyone trying to use the very esoteric and often pedantic discussions that populate this “News” forum for general trip planning.

The thread is about Genie+ and the details of how it will work. Maybe the people coming here didn’t expect some posters would insist on turning it into an esoteric and pedantic discussion about “larger systems.”

 

[lazyboy97o]

It matters when people take it upon themselves to pontificate about things of which they themselves are “guilty”.

I am actually surprised to see you stooping to this sort of lame gotcha game. You use air conditioning at Walt Disney World, does that mean you never express concerns about the environment?

Not really. You quoted my post as an example of “why there is any sort of rebuking”. Can you explain why my usage of line-skipping services is any more deserving of censure than, say, @sedati’s or @Casper Gutman’s?

I’ve never said your personal use was a problem or deserving of censure. The problem is claiming there wasn’t a problem because you didn’t encounter them or think about them and then framing every attempt to point out deficiencies as a personal attack.

 

[hopemax]

It's why I keep saying Disney needs to stop making every ride marketable and start putting in more rides like Aliens Swirling Saucers. I still standby the notion they need a B&M in every park.

But those aren't the rides people want to ride. They could have FOP and 50 other rides, and people would still line up for FOP because it's "the best thing in the park." What makes people say they don't have to ride FOP is if they could experience the exact same ride system but instead of visiting Pandora you are riding a speeder bike through the forests of Endor. If Forbidden Journey was right next to FOP, I bet that would also make people think real hard about which one they want to queue up for.

When Tik Tok tells you these are the 5 must do's, Alien's Swirling Saucers is not an acceptable substitute.

 

[Jrb1979]

But those aren't the rides people want to ride. They could have FOP and 50 other rides, and people would still line up for FOP because it's "the best thing in the park." What makes people say they don't have to ride FOP is if they could experience the exact same ride system but instead of visiting Pandora you are riding a speeder bike through the forests of Endor. If Forbidden Journey was right next to FOP, I bet that would also make people think real hard about which one they want to queue up for.

When Tik Tok tells you these are the 5 must do's, Alien's Swirling Saucers is not an acceptable substitute.

You can't always keep adding E ticket attractions. You also need the one that you say people don't want to ride. Disney needs capacity and with how slow they build things most of us will be on our death bed before they ever get to that point.

 

[lazyboy97o]

But those aren't the rides people want to ride. They could have FOP and 50 other rides, and people would still line up for FOP because it's "the best thing in the park." What makes people say they don't have to ride FOP is if they could experience the exact same ride system but instead of visiting Pandora you are riding a speeder bike through the forests of Endor. If Forbidden Journey was right next to FOP, I bet that would also make people think real hard about which one they want to queue up for.

This isn’t entirely true. People do make substitutions. The Indiana Jones Adventure commanded incredibly long lines in the Summer of 95 that snakes around the park. That situation didn’t persist until Rise of the Resistance opened.

Sure, Disneyland is the “locals” parks but you don’t sell thousands of timeshares to one time visitors. Frequency may be spread out more but the crowds at Walt Disney World are being driven more and more by the same people returning, not new and unique guests. You also previously touched on why the ongoing high demand remains so concentrated at Walt Disney World, the lack of capacity (there isn’t much else at Disney’s Animal Kingdom to take the load off of Flight of Passage) and the reservation systems that juice demand with the allure of a shorter wait.

You can’t load the park up with E-Tickets and there may be certain “must do” experiences that not everyone can do, but offering more capacity can help make up for it and ease the pain while encouraging a return visit. Not being able to do Flight of Passage and only doing five rides over a whole day and your meals taking forever is really going to sting. It’ll sting a lot less if you did more things of various levels, getting food was quick and easy, etc.

 

[LittleBuford]

I am actually surprised to see you stooping to this sort of lame gotcha game. You use air conditioning at Walt Disney World, does that mean you never express concerns about the environment?


I’ve never said your personal use was a problem or deserving of censure. The problem is claiming there wasn’t a problem because you didn’t encounter them or think about them and then framing every attempt to point out deficiencies as a personal attack.

First, I’m not stooping to anything. I’m trying to make sense of what seems to me a flagrant double standard.

Second, I never said there isn’t a problem. I simply said that I see no way out of the problem that doesn’t take into account that 1) line-skipping services are here to stay, and 2) capacity isn’t going to be significantly increased anytime soon. It seems all of us acknowledge this reality, since all of us (however begrudgingly) appear to be using line-skipping services to maximise our personal enjoyment of the parks.