Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[hopemax]

You can't always keep adding E ticket attractions. You also need the one that you say people don't want to ride. Disney needs capacity and with how slow they build things most of us will be on our death bed before they ever get to that point.

Disney's incompetence doesn't change the fact that you have to offer what people actually want to buy. Which in a theme park is mostly D&E tickets. That's why I pointed out the distribution of rides in the 1970s. There were far more Ds & Es than there ever were Bs & Cs. This is nothing new. The need has only gotten worse since the Internet allows people to be more educated about the park before they step into it. Everyone makes fun of the idea that Teacups are a FP ride, there is a reason for that. Because people know in their heart of hearts they aren't a proper substitute. That doesn't mean don't have them. But you have them for other reasons. To flesh out a day, to give people something of a different pace when they need to decompress for a moment, something for people who don't want thrills, younger, older to add kinetics to an area, etc. They will never be a substitute for people when they are looking for a premium experience, and at these admission costs people are going to be looking for multiple premium experiences. And I bet you know that, because when you go to the park that's what you are looking for. Multiple premium experiences.

 

[Casper Gutman]

The thread is about Genie+ and the details of how it will work. Maybe the people coming here didn’t expect some posters would insist on turning it into an esoteric and pedantic discussion about “larger systems.”

This thread is about Genie+ news and Genie+ as a concept. There is an entire separate forum about using Genie+.

 

[hopemax]

This isn’t entirely true. People do make substitutions. The Indiana Jones Adventure commanded incredibly long lines in the Summer of 95 that snakes around the park. That situation didn’t persist until Rise of the Resistance opened.

Sure, Disneyland is the “locals” parks but you don’t sell thousands of timeshares to one time visitors. Frequency may be spread out more but the crowds at Walt Disney World are being driven more and more by the same people returning, not new and unique guests. You also previously touched on why the ongoing high demand remains so concentrated at Walt Disney World, the lack of capacity (there isn’t much else at Disney’s Animal Kingdom to take the load off of Flight of Passage) and the reservation systems that juice demand with the allure of a shorter wait.

You can’t load the park up with E-Tickets and there may be certain “must do” experiences that not everyone can do, but offering more capacity can help make up for it and ease the pain while encouraging a return visit. Not being able to do Flight of Passage and only doing five rides over a whole day and your meals taking forever is really going to sting. It’ll sting a lot less if you did more things of various levels, getting food was quick and easy, etc.

People substitute for things they believe are comparably satisfying or close enough. And Disneyland has a bunch of E-Tickets to find "comparable." Space, Splash, BTMRR, Matterhorn, HM, Pirates. Even things like Jungle Cruise, Small World, Star Tours. That's 9 comparable options. Even spectacles, like a parade, fireworks or Fantasmic could be a comparable option. The majority who no longer queued for Indy didn't do so in favor of the ground level Astro Orbiter and Dumbo.

 

[lazyboy97o]

First, I’m not stooping to anything. I’m trying to make sense of what seems to me a flagrant double standard.

Second, I never said there isn’t a problem. I simply said that I see no way out of the problem that doesn’t take into account that 1) line-skipping services are here to stay, and 2) capacity isn’t going to be significantly increased anytime soon. It seems all of us acknowledge this reality, since pretty much all of us appear to be using line-skipping services to maximise our personal enjoyment of the parks.

You concocted the standard and the issue and are now trying to claim hypocrisy based on a singular criteria. You are the one who keeps framing it as some sort of issue of right and wrong. Maybe I still visit because my grandkids love going and I let them determine the itinerary so if they booked FastPass+ then that is what we used. But if the whole thing is just maximizing personal preference and gain then there is no hypocrisy.

 

[lazyboy97o]

People substitute for things they believe are comparably satisfying or close enough. And Disneyland has a bunch of E-Tickets to find "comparable." Space, Splash, BTMRR, Matterhorn, HM, Pirates. Even things like Jungle Cruise, Small World, Star Tours. That's 9 comparable options. Even spectacles, like a parade, fireworks or Fantasmic could be a comparable option. The majority who no longer queued for Indy didn't do so in favor of the ground level Astro Orbiter and Dumbo.

Right but they also didn’t only queue for those few marquee experiences. The key is variety. The Walt Disney World parks are just so far into the hole that you need E-Tickets as well but they also make things worse by inducing demand.

 

[LittleBuford]

You are the one who keeps framing it as some sort of issue of right and wrong.

This simply isn’t true, but I can see we’re not going to get anywhere, so I’ll bid you a good night.

 

[pdude81]

The common good is pretty easy to define at a theme park, it is getting the average attractions per guest per hour as high (as close to 2) as possible. Ignoring that Disney and most operators offer accommodations for those with difficulties queuing, you seem to repeatedly ignore that adequate capacity would mean targeting an average wait of 20 - 30 minutes per attraction. 20 minutes was the threshold that FastPass used to promise. Yes, it might be more if you only want to hit the few things with the longest lines in a short window, but that is a unique edge case and not how most people visit.

You’re at your local grocery store on a decently busy day. There are lines starting to form at the registers. Which is the better solution for getting more people through checkout as quickly as possible? 1) Opening the additional registers that are closed or 2) Closing a register or two and switching half or more of those that are open to an “Express” lane that you either have to reserve in advance or pay extra to use?

I don't think this is a fair example because they aren't closing any registers. They absolutely are prioritizing certain shoppers for certains trips, but not closing registers or generally throughput. Throughput is the name of the game. And if it stays mostly constant it's just about what is the best mix for customers. Now you can argue all day about the precise effect of rolling line skips, but the throughput is the same whether they have 1 line or two.

 

[runnsally]

Stacking and Hacking: Disney Just Changed How Genie+ Lightning Lane Selections Operate, Closes Loopholes

In this article, we'll discuss Disney Genie+ stacking and loopholes that were present in the system. We'll also cover fixes for the loopholes

blogmickey.com

looks like genie+ just got a little better…or worse…

 

[matt9112]

This just doesn't seem comparable to me. One early morning 60 days out where I can use my computer to book instead of a phone versus having to do the same scramble every single day of my vacation. As the person who plans for my family, I'm really not looking forward to having to do that almost every day we are there. I get that FP+ was broken but I'd much prefer they'd gone with MaxPass exactly than this.

This....lol....but some people will defend this system until they are blue in the face.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

no - because all of those scenarios are still ahead of one day guests… even at 60days. The benefit is everyone who is staying 2 or more days…. Just longer stays have even more advantage. The longer stay is more advantaged over the shorter stay and both are still advantaged over the single day.

You keep ignoring the other side of the tradeoff. FP+ gave multiple-day guests an advantage over one-day guests..... which was bad for one-day guests.

If it's true that "A had an advantage over B," then it's also true that "B was at a DISadvantage relative to A."

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Stacking and Hacking: Disney Just Changed How Genie+ Lightning Lane Selections Operate, Closes Loopholes

In this article, we'll discuss Disney Genie+ stacking and loopholes that were present in the system. We'll also cover fixes for the loopholes

blogmickey.com

looks like genie+ just got a little better…or worse…

Better. I wouldn't even describe this as closing a loophole, it's more fixing a bug. It never should have worked the way it had been working.

 

[matt9112]

Perhaps they were, but the problem is that people (myself included) don't want to wait in long queues.

Solution is very easy....build more capacity. Its so simple im not sure why there's this big mathematical conversation going on. All 4 parks are underbuilt. Most additional rides lately have just created more popular capacity without actually increasing capacity.

 

[matt9112]

You keep ignoring the other side of the tradeoff. FP+ gave multiple-day guests an advantage over one-day guests..... which was bad for one-day guests.

If it's true that "A had an advantage over B," then it's also true that "B was at a DISadvantage relative to A."

I had no issues as a local going on weekends....except for FOP and 7D i could get anything i want....seems far superior than this system. But sure okay pal.

 

[drizgirl]

Solution is very easy....build more capacity. Its so simple im not sure why there's this big mathematical conversation going on. All 4 parks are underbuilt. Most additional rides lately have just created more popular capacity without actually increasing capacity.

This has all been a giant shell game to disguise that lack of capacity. They keep trying different shells, but the problem persists. They are willing to try anything except building more capacity.

 

[DisneyDreamer08]

Did they raise the price of Rise today? I tried to check at 8:15 but it’s already sold out. Just curious.

 

[G00fyDad]

Did they raise the price of Rise today? I tried to check at 8:15 but it’s already sold out. Just curious.

SDMT is still just $10 and SM is still just $7 so I doubt they raised it for RotR.

 

[DCBaker]

Did they raise the price of Rise today? I tried to check at 8:15 but it’s already sold out. Just curious.

No. The prices were the same (the other ILLs also did not increase to the weekend pricing).

 

[dreday3]

I pity anyone trying to use the very esoteric and often pedantic discussions that populate this “News” forum for general trip planning.

I try to ask my trip specific questions on the other boards, nobody answers! When I ask something on this board, I always get an answer from someone (then it goes back to very esoteric and often pedantic discussion )

 

[Jeff4272]

At MCO leaving after 4 day trip and I have to save it was the most stressful and exhausting trip we’ve ever done. Genie+ is a complete disaster and waste of money. Up early every day and didn’t get the rides we wanted even at 7:00:01 with 3 of us on MDE. Zero incentive to stay on property. Their big pitch is resort guests get to book ILL at 7am before non resort guests and we tried 3 days in a row at 7:00:01 and got nothing for ROTR on 2 tries and FOP on the other try. Got 2 rides with genie+ and waited in 60-220 (FOP) minute lines. Why did I pay more and get less with this system? I thought if I paid and stayed in a deluxe resort I would get an advantage and it was complete opposite. My kids were exhausted getting up so early and we were all stressed about not getting our preferred rides.

we will not be back System blows.

they need an “any ride, any time” pass system for me to return. Will never do that again.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I don't think this is a fair example because they aren't closing any registers. They absolutely are prioritizing certain shoppers for certains trips, but not closing registers or generally throughput. Throughput is the name of the game. And if it stays mostly constant it's just about what is the best mix for customers. Now you can argue all day about the precise effect of rolling line skips, but the throughput is the same whether they have 1 line or two.

They have been “closing registers” by outright closing venues, replacing them with ones with lower capacity and operating at lower capacity at times to keep crowding high. The system is also not a single line but multiple that get impacted, because you hold a reservation you might now be in line at a snack cart making that line longer (which is one of the problems they had at Volcano Bay).

This has all been a giant shell game to disguise that lack of capacity. They keep trying different shells, but the problem persists. They are willing to try anything except building more capacity.

And in the process have spent a lot more. They’ve spent enough to add something like 20 Expedition Everests and make important technology upgrades. And since you don’t want all E-Tickets it’s be enough for even more attractions.