Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[LittleBuford]

If anything the throughput is so low vs expected guest demand, I am tempted to believe that they are intentionally creating new crowding, and pinch points so it looks like something is more successful than it would be otherwise. Because that's the psychological trick... if people don't see a crowd, then it must not be good. People don't reward efficient, even though it's what everyone wants! To get something done as fast as possible. People want inefficient to generate a crowding situation so they know what is good, but a way for them to breeze by that inefficient situation.

This seems to contradict the usual claim that Disney is aware of the dissatisfaction caused by crowding and has been relying on line-skipping systems as a band-aid solution to the problem.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

This seems to contradict the usual claim that Disney is aware of the dissatisfaction caused by crowding and has been relying on line-skipping systems as a band-aid solution to the problem.

I think they're aware of it and are just using data to increase their income and giving guests lip-service.

 

[mikejs78]

Interesting observation at MK today and Studios yesterday. Im not certain what the variance between posted and actual wait tines were pre pandemic but the last two days I’ve noticed wait times are half what is being posted. I know previously Disney would over state wait times but didnt think it was that drastic. I timed a number of waits so Im not guesstimating. Could Disney be doing this to enhance the perceived value of Genie+?

Been that way since the pandemic reopening.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I think they're aware of it and are just using data to increase their income and giving guests lip-service.

Yup. They certainly know about it, and leveling crowds is one of the goals of the new software system, but it’s not the primary goal by any stretch of the imagination. Data collection and, now, revenue generation are much, much higher priorities. Oh, and making sure they never pay more staff then they absolutely need.

 

[UNCgolf]

I think, in terms of controlling crowds, mega attractions and new lands aren’t the way to go. You need lots and lots of people eaters that will incrementally raise guest satisfaction but not inspire a flood of new tourists. In my ideal resort, you’d add a steady stream of high-capacity FL-style dark rides throughout the parks. Think Little Mermaid minus the elaborate queue but built at a reasonable price. You need a lot of theatre shows of reasonable length - Nemo or an updated Indy would be models. You need streetmosphere and pop-up shows that can hold audiences - think the Jammitors. Shops need to be large, heavily themed, and boast very unique merchandise so they can act as attractions in there own right - HP-style, but larger. And you need seating areas and relaxing places to remove yourself from the crowd. In other words, you need to do the exact opposite of everything WDW has been doing.

That's kind of what I meant with new lands. I didn't mean they needed to focus on a particular IP, or even necessarily a specific theme. I meant they needed to add a wide variety of things beyond just a new ride. Shops, dining, entertainment, and some attractions too -- Pandora and GE are the two recent examples (TSL didn't add enough and New Fantasyland was mostly replacements), although even Pandora and GE failed to add a table service restaurant.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

That's kind of what I meant with new lands. I didn't mean they needed to focused on a particular IP; I meant they needed to add a wide variety of things beyond just a new ride. Shops, dining, entertainment, and some attractions too.

And for the love of GOD, add outdoor seating...preferably with some shade in some form.

 

[LittleBuford]

I think they're aware of it and are just using data to increase their income and giving guests lip-service.

Oh, I've no doubt they're aware of the fact that crowding is an issue in most guests' eyes. I think I recall reading that it's the single biggest complaint in surveys. What I'm not convinced of in light of this awareness is the idea that Disney would deliberately raise crowd levels to convince guests of the popularity of newly built attractions.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Oh, I've no doubt they're aware of the fact that crowding is an issue in most guests' eyes. I think I recall reading that it's the single biggest complaint in surveys. What I'm not convinced of in light of this awareness is the idea that Disney would deliberately raise crowd levels to convince guests of the popularity of newly built attractions.

Oh, I absolutely think there are levels of management that would do that to gain brown-nosing points with higher ups.

 

[RoadiJeff]

Which, as I understand it, will only ever reach capacity on days like Christmas.

The WDW park reservation availability calendar says there are no reservations left for today at the MK or on Halloween.

 

[LittleBuford]

The WDW park reservation availability calendar says there are no reservations left for today at the MK or on Halloween.

Unless I’m mistaken (which I may well be), the parks aren’t back up to normal capacity yet. I was referring to the long-term outlook, assuming the reservation system outlives the end of pandemic mitigations.

 

[Patcheslee]

Yup. They certainly know about it, and leveling crowds is one of the goals of the new software system, but it’s not the primary goal by any stretch of the imagination. Data collection and, now, revenue generation are much, much higher priorities. Oh, and making sure they never pay more staff then they absolutely need.

The Magicbands themselves gave a goldmine of data including guest spending habits, IP popularity, etc. There's a New York post report from 2019 that showed an 18% increase in income and a 30% reduction in transaction time due to them. Imagine they were also able to track character popularity at M&Gs to possibly find out which may be worth more investment besides the M&G location. When you add in TS reservations, they get data on what guests would book based on the group dynamics.

 

[Ayla]

Let me make this clear: you do not get to dictate that I don’t enjoy the parks, or that the way that I experience them is somehow wrong or “perverse,” or that there is something wrong with me (or other posters) because we are able to engage with Disney critically while also enjoying many elements of it. Disney, Marvel, Star Wars, and WDW mean a great deal to me and my fondness for and fascination with them has shaped my life more then I feel it necessary to explain here. I am not going to give up on that because I feel the parks are being mismanaged currently - I’m not going to let foolish executives take possession of something I love. So please feel free to exchange opinions and debate the reality of the park, but stop trying to shut down debate by positing your perception as the limit of discussion and please don’t try to define opposing views of the park a product of personal maladjustment.

This needs to be repeated.

 

[LittleBuford]

This needs to be repeated.

The irony is that the point he was making—that no-one is entitled to tell others they are wrong for feeling as they do about WDW—is precisely what I myself was trying to say.

 

[Ayla]

Interesting observation at MK today and Studios yesterday. Im not certain what the variance between posted and actual wait tines were pre pandemic but the last two days I’ve noticed wait times are half what is being posted. I know previously Disney would over state wait times but didnt think it was that drastic. I timed a number of waits so Im not guesstimating. Could Disney be doing this to enhance the perceived value of Genie+?

Yes.

 

[Chi84]

The complaints themselves are perfectly legitimate. I may not agree with them, but they're clearly coming from a genuine place, and I commend some of our more passionate posters for the strength of their convictions. It's not for me to tell anyone that their experience of WDW is wrong, or that they should stop going if they no longer enjoy themselves as they once did, or that they need to come around to my way of seeing things. Contrary to what was suggested in an earlier post, I have no intention whatsoever of limiting what we discuss or changing anyone's mind. The only thing I take issue with is the notion that those of us who aren't complaining have been hoodwinked and that we must, moreover, be made to see that we've been hoodwinked. I draw the line at being told that I have been tricked into enjoying myself or that I'm being selfish by not privileging others' subjective opinions over my own lived experiences. It really feels like a form of evangelism at times, and I don't fully understand what those proselytising hope to achieve.

If people insist on framing the issue in moral terms, I fail to see why my relationship with Disney is any more detrimental to the common good than that of park-goers who have a much more negative view of the company. At the end of the day, our money is all going to the same place. Complaining doesn't offset one's financial contribution, and I daresay that some of the least satisfied posters here continue to spend far more time and money at WDW than I do.

@LittleBuford You did say it - very well.

 

[flynnibus]

If the addition of new lands and even gates hasn't helped, what do you think the solution is?

It HAS helped - but is still behind. That was hopemax's example.

Just because you haven't seen the scales tip doesn't mean there isn't change.

You seem to have this binary approach to things and not believing something until you see it totally swing the other way verse recognizing that things change before they overtake the counteracting force.

 

[LittleBuford]

You seem to have this binary approach to things and not believing something until you see it totally swing the other way verse recognizing that things change before they overtake the counteracting force.

Not at all. I try to avoid black-and-thinking at all costs, and I'm very open to being corrected.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Uhhh…. What….I rode Rise this last Wednesday night it was a posted 45 minutes and we got on in about 30….but I saw nothing even close to a 215 minute wait

45 min wait to ride Rise is, to me, a super short wait time for this ride and I would gladly get in line.

It will be interesting to see what the standby wait for Rise will be after G+ and ILL Is launched.

Will we be referring to Oct. 2021 as the “good ol’ days” ?

 

[Casper Gutman]

The irony is that the point he was making—that no-one is entitled to tell others they are wrong for feeling as they do about WDW—is precisely what I myself was trying to say.

You really want to be the offended party, don’t you? Posters let this whole thing drop and you dredge it up again. This started because I made a general point - line-skipping software ultimately makes things worse for everyone but Disney - and you and Chi decided to take personal offense instead of debating the effects of such systems on the parks as built. For one thing, apparently, you don’t mind huge, pressing crowds, so saying they make the parks worse doesn’t respect your perspective.

You tried to shut down debate and stated or implied other posters were dogmatic zealots (has anyone on the other side of the argument made similar accusations about you?) and eventually, explicitly did the thing you accuse others of doing, devaluing opposing opinions as the product of maladjustment. When this was pointed out, you responded with a “sorry you’re offended” pseudo-apology.

If this is misleading, show me the specific offensive passages from me or other posters you took as personal insults.

 

[Chi84]

You really want to be the offended party, don’t you? Posters let this whole thing drop and you dredge it up again. This started because I made a general point - line-skipping software ultimately makes things worse for everyone but Disney - and you and Chi decided to take personal offense instead of debating the effects of such systems on the parks as built. For one thing, apparently, you don’t mind huge, pressing crowds, so saying they make the parks worse doesn’t respect your perspective.

You tried to shut down debate and stated or implied other posters were dogmatic zealots (has anyone on the other side of the argument made similar accusations about you?) and eventually, explicitly did the thing you accuse others of doing, devaluing opposing opinions as the product of maladjustment. When this was pointed out, you responded with a “sorry you’re offended” pseudo-apology.

If this is misleading, show me the specific offensive passages from me or other posters you took as personal insults.

Wait, what?! My posts were just that your “general point” that line-skipping is bad for everyone except Disney is not true for me. I’m not the only one. Other posters have consistently taken the position that line-skipping resulted in better vacation experiences for them. My issue is that some posters simply refuse to accept that line-skipping can be good for guests who vacation in a certain way.