Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[dreday3]

Get over the angst all ready people! I’m going very soon and currently have no plan to buy G+ or IAS. I’m going to see how it goes, I’m much more open to buying G+ if I can’t do what I want to do but I foresee no future where I buy IAS. Im going to see how it goes.

That’s mainly my rule for any pay to cut system, and most of the time I don’t need to buy it at other parks (the exception being Universal but only because it comes free with staying at their wonderful hotels I would probably stay at anyways.) The only time I consistently buy those add ons are Halloween events because haunted house lines move slow glacially slow it’s scary.

I think we are purchasing for one day at each park and the other days we won't. I want to try it out.
We will buy IAS for our first night to ride Rat.

I'm already laughing as I'm sure there will be points where we spent the money for Genie + and we probably end up walking through the lightning lane for the same amount of time as the regular line. Live and learn!

 

[Chi84]

Not everyone is you....how many guests ask where hogwarts is standing in front of spaceship earth?

Facts.

My suspicion is there are such people, but they are not the ones actually planning the trip. WDW attracts a lot of large groups, many of which contain only a few who are tasked with knowing all the ins and outs. I'm sure there are some groups or families that are entirely clueless but I doubt its a significant number.

 

[Trauma]

My suspicion is there are such people, but they are not the ones actually planning the trip. WDW attracts a lot of large groups, many of which contain only a few who are tasked with knowing all the ins and outs. I'm sure there are some groups or families that are entirely clueless but I doubt its a significant number.

I’m not so sure about that. Every trip I run into a surprising amount of clueless guests that I end up explaining things too.

My trip last month had a couple on a bus to the MK all excited about the fact they discovered the the bus itself existed. They had been taking their personal vehicle to the parks each day. This was on day 7 of their trip.

I have also had many conversations with guests where they say how excited they are about Potter only to get even more confused when I tell them wrong company.

I still think this is going to be a disaster.

I have personally never paid for a line skipping system at any theme park that for certain attractions then required me to pay more.

Genie+ will be understood by the masses if it’s very simple to use. iLL will cause a great deal of outrage if I had to guess.

 

[mikejs78]

Relevant to all the new charges. This is what you have shown for years @ParentsOf4

I don't agree with this animation because it uses a false equivalency. It uses the $3.50 base ticket of 1971 as its starting point. That equates to about $24 in 2021 dollars. Given the average ticket today of approximately $130, that seems like an insane increase.

The problem with that is that included access to exactly *zero* rides, as you had to purchase ticket books to get on anything. So we aren't comparing apples to apples.

A better comparison would be 1982 to today, as in 1982 they introduced the all-inclusive pass. So that pass in 1982 went for about $30. In today's dollars, that's about $85. Now, Disney has still obviously increased higher than inflation in relation to that, but not nearly as high as that animation illustrates.

 

[dothebrdwalk]

If it's called the "Lightning Lane" like it has to be quicker than quick. I better not stop moving for 1 second lol.

 

[Patcheslee]

I’m not so sure about that. Every trip I run into a surprising amount of clueless guests that I end up explaining things too.

My trip last month had a couple on a bus to the MK all excited about the fact they discovered the the bus itself existed. They had been taking their personal vehicle to the parks each day. This was on day 7 of their trip.

I have also had many conversations with guests where they say how excited they are about Potter only to get even more confused when I tell them wrong company.

I still think this is going to be a disaster.

I have personally never paid for a line skipping system at any theme park that for certain attractions then required me to pay more.

Genie+ will be understood by the masses if it’s very simple to use. iLL will cause a great deal of outrage if I had to guess.

I had a strange encounter at the airport last trip we were on in 2019. Outside waiting on DH and a guy from some foreign country not an accent I recognized started a conversation with me. He had a little girl maybe 8 he said was his daughter, asking how to get a car to Disney World, and he'd brought her to the country to see it and visit for a day. The guy didn't know tickets were required, it was multiple parks, etc. It just seemed too odd, I get people not being aware of things but to this extent? It raised enough mom flags to point him out to airport security saying he needed help. Maybe people really are that clueless sometimes? Just seems hard to believe.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I know I’m in the minority, but I don’t consider the parks to be under-capacity. I think there are plenty of things to do and see, and the addition of new attractions has (as far as I know) done nothing before now to bring crowd levels down.

It's not that adding attractions/restaurants/shops/open space brings crowd levels down, it's that it helps to spread them out and if enough were added would reduce the feeling of "crowdedness". There aren't less people...they're just spread out better. FP+ and now Genie+ and Lightning Lane attempt to do that artificially...the problem is that you can only shuffle people around so much within available space.

 

[JoeCamel]

If it's called the "Lightning Lane" like it has to be quicker than quick. I better not stop moving for 1 second lol.

Loser lane.....

 

[UNCgolf]

The big problem with focusing so much on crowding is that it is so relative and shaped by other capacities and design decisions. Remy’s Ratatouille Adventure isn’t likely helping ease much crowding despite being new capacity because it is using Boarding Groups so all of the people “in line” are still in the rest of the park. There are other issues such as just the design of a park, retail capacity and dining capacity. Impact is also going to be lessened by a greater existing deficiency. Attraction capacity is the big focus metric and the big basis for park capacity, but even if every ride was a low wait you’d probably still feel crowded if the walkways were narrow and there was not enough dining capacity. We started to see some of that in play this past year as attendance picked up but many non-ride venues remained closed; actual attendance was low but the parks started to feel more crowded.

I agree with all of this -- I mentioned above that they desperately need to add dining capacity.

I've also repeatedly pointed out that heavily using VQs would be disastrous for park capacity and operations because they weren't designed for it.

 

[SteveAZee]

I had a strange encounter at the airport last trip we were on in 2019. Outside waiting on DH and a guy from some foreign country not an accent I recognized started a conversation with me. He had a little girl maybe 8 he said was his daughter, asking how to get a car to Disney World, and he'd brought her to the country to see it and visit for a day. The guy didn't know tickets were required, it was multiple parks, etc. It just seemed too odd, I get people not being aware of things but to this extent? It raised enough mom flags to point him out to airport security saying he needed help. Maybe people really are that clueless sometimes? Just seems hard to believe.

I've experienced this with people born and raised here. To me, it's a frame of reference. I grew up knowing only our local amusement park where you show up, buy some tickets for rides, get cracker jacks or cotton candy, and leave after a few hours. Two people I've known personally went to WDW cold... no preparation or planning or any idea of how to 'game the system'. Both came back having had a wonderful time. Did they see all the stuff I personally think they should have if they had planned and prepared? No. And yet they had a great time anyway.

 

[flynnibus]

No, there’s a subtle difference there, especially if the return windows for LL are 1 hour like they were for FP+. That bumps it up to potentially a 3 hour timer after park opening to pull your second LL depending on your arrival time and plans.

no
if you waited an hour to redeem your spot, that is on you and applies every where… nothing to do with park open and the cooldown timer.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

no
if you waited an hour to redeem your spot, that is on you and applies every where… nothing to do with park open and the cooldown timer.

You’re not understanding the difference. It’s not about who it’s “on.” They are two different systems and we don’t yet know how it will work. These are the two ways it can work:

Scenario A: You can always pull a new lightning lane when either of the two conditions have been met: 1. You have swiped into your previous lightning lane; or 2: it has been at least 2 hours since park opening if your first LL was within 2 hours of park opening. In this scenario, let’s say MK opens at 9. You pull splash mountain for 10:55-11:55 AM window. You actually get to Splash Mountain at 11:45 AM and swipe in. At 11 AM, you can pull a second lightning lane, regardless of whether you have swiped into splash, since it’s been 120 minutes since park opening.

Scenario B: Same as above, except now the rule is you can’t pull a second LL if you have a first one booked within 120 minutes of park opening until you’ve swiped into that LL. Under the facts above, you now can’t pull your second LL until 11:45, instead of 11.


The systems are different. Both have been described as the way it works. Another poster indicated that the systems as described were the same, and I merely pointed out that there is a subtle but meaningful difference there.

 

[flynnibus]

That is an entirely misleading characterisation of what I’m saying. An accurate paraphrase would be, “How can you justify criticising me for giving WDW money when you do the same?”

As I’ve already said more than once, you are perfectly entitled to complain as much as you wish about Disney, here or anywhere else.

no - you just don’t understand what is being said and after the 10th time spelling it out i just can’t anymore. You deflect, move the goalposts, and try to flip it on others, verse just staying on the point.

the latest example… talking about an attraction not helping crowding (obviously about where it was added)… and you then flip to talking about comparing wdw crowding as a whole verse facing the conditions in the park itself?? Come on. Impossible to have a intelligent discussion here with you.

 

[arich35]

Really worried about availability. We are doing an Epcot/Hollywood Studios day, seems like a perfect day for Genie+ but worried that all the good LL passes will be gone fore the evening/night at HS. Also, will I be able to get all the rides at Epcot in from 11-4? Too many unknowns when you are going to have to spend $15 per person.

 

[flynnibus]

You’re not understanding the difference. It’s not about who it’s “on.” They are two different systems and we don’t yet know how it will work. These are the two ways it can work:

Scenario A: You can always pull a new lightning lane when either of the two conditions have been met: 1. You have swiped into your previous lightning lane; or 2: it has been at least 2 hours since park opening if your first LL was within 2 hours of park opening. In this scenario, let’s say MK opens at 9. You pull splash mountain for 10:55-11:55 AM window. You actually get to Splash Mountain at 11:45 AM and swipe in. At 11 AM, you can pull a second lightning lane, regardless of whether you have swiped into splash, since it’s been 120 minutes since park opening.

Scenario B: Same as above, except now the rule is you can’t pull a second LL if you have a first one booked within 120 minutes of park opening until you’ve swiped into that LL. Under the facts above, you now can’t pull your second LL until 11:45, instead of 11.


The systems are different. Both have been described as the way it works. Another poster indicated that the systems as described were the same, and I merely pointed out that there is a subtle but meaningful difference there.

your delta has nothing to do with the timer starting at park opening or not and applies everywhere. Your delta is if reservation start time is good enough or if redemption is needed to qualify the ‘used’ condition. It’s a completely different question from when the cooldown timer begins.

what the park opening condition simply means is no matter what time you actually booked it (before park opening), it is the same as if you booked it af park open. It only has any significance if your first redemption is beyond two hours of open.

your question of window verse redemption is tangent to that.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

How could they not? Mathematically it would only be possible for them to increase crowds if they also increased attendance above the added capacity. That doesn't appear to have happened with Galaxy's Edge, and it's unlikely they're going to add a bigger draw than that anytime soon.

At this point in the WDW lifespan, it seems like added attractions simply shift demand rather than actually increasing crowds. It might be hard to ride the new attraction for a while if you don't want to wait in a long line, but it also means the other lines in the park get shorter.

I wouldn't take Galaxy's Edge as proof of anything, especially in isolation, because the GE addition coincided with significant price increases. If WDW had added GE, but kept everything else the same, then you'd have a stronger case.

In this context, price increases = everything: hotel prices, park tickets, AP's, parking fees....

 

[LittleBuford]

Impossible to have a intelligent discussion here with you.

I’m sorry you feel that way. It seems to flow well enough with others, so perhaps it’s just the particular combination of you and me together. I hope you enjoy the rest of your weekend.

 

[LittleBuford]

It's not that adding attractions/restaurants/shops/open space brings crowd levels down, it's that it helps to spread them out and if enough were added would reduce the feeling of "crowdedness". There aren't less people...they're just spread out better. FP+ and now Genie+ and Lightning Lane attempt to do that artificially...the problem is that you can only shuffle people around so much within available space.

I certainly understand the logic and agree with it in principle, but I’m stuck on my observation that no expansion or opening seems to have alleviated the problem of crowding as others here perceive it. I don’t recall a single post in which anyone noted the positive impact of Toy Story Land or Galaxy’s Edge on crowding. I visited the parks shortly before and shortly after these two lands were added, and I can’t say that I noticed a difference (though crowds don’t bother me in the first place, so I’m less likely to notice).

 

[hopemax]

I certainly understand the logic and agree with it in principle, but I’m stuck on my observation that no expansion or opening seems to have alleviated the problem of crowding as others here perceive it. I don’t recall a single post in which anyone noted the positive impact of Toy Story Land or Galaxy’s Edge on crowding. I visited the parks shortly before and shortly after these two lands were added, and I can’t say that I noticed a difference (though crowds don’t bother me in the first place, so I’m less likely to notice).

Let's say you have 100 people wanting something. But you only have 25 items. You double production and now you have 50 items. But you still sell out as fast as before because you still have 50 more people wanting something than you have. Plus, some of the people noticed that you doubled production so maybe they could get 2 items and not just 1, and so they circled back in line. I feel like your argument is because you still have more people than items, and still have a queue you should have just left it at 25 items, and there is no point in manufacturing any more.

 

[LittleBuford]

It raised enough mom flags to point him out to airport security saying he needed help.

I would caution against reporting foreign citizens to airport security unless you actually have a security or safety concern (which you may have, though it wasn’t clear from your post).