Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[LittleBuford]

Now we're seeing a variation of an argument that pops up a lot on these boards, "How can you justify criticizing WDW if you still give them money?" It's the flip side of its counterpart, "How can you criticize WDW if you never go?" Both are ways to try and dismiss criticism.

That is an entirely misleading characterisation of what I’m saying. An accurate paraphrase would be, “How can you justify criticising me for giving WDW money when you do the same?”

As I’ve already said more than once, you are perfectly entitled to complain as much as you wish about Disney, here or anywhere else.

 

[Trauma]

you don’t remember when people talked about the rest of animal kingdom being while pandora was booming?

or how everest waits were lower due to rivers of light shows occupying people?

or how fireworks and f! Change dhs wait times?
Or the flex theater at dhs?

What about toy story land?
Did you think New fantasy land made the rest of magic kingdom experience worse?

How dare you ask questions, you still spend money at the parks!!

Silence!

 

[Chi84]

You can express concern with the capacity. The whole reason Disney dropped in TRON and Ratatouille and finally realized FastPass+ really wasn’t working as intended and had to be scrapped is because people continued to be dissatisfied by crowding. It won’t address that big structural issues that make really adding capacity so difficult, but it’s a start.

I am concerned about the capacity. There are too many people wanting to ride the most popular rides, just as there were when we visited prior to any sort of FastPass. Back then, when we traveled with older relatives and young children, we just skipped those rides because the lines were too long. The question is how we deal with it now when we have options and we're the older ones.

Some people believe those options ruin the parks and have chosen to visit less often (which makes perfect sense if they actually prefer non-Disney parks), but that isn't what we want to do. So we'll make the decisions that are best for us, just as everyone else does. Families planning a WDW vacation are not making the necessary decisions (where to stay, where to eat, whether to buy events or line-skipping options) based on how their choices will affect the majority of parkgoers. As far as expressing concern, Disney sends me a survey after just about every visit. If I have a bad time, I'll let them know.

 

[matt9112]

Then wait until 11 and see if the ride is available at noon or later. And even though it might not be available for noon, at least you know you'll have it later. Like I said, I do see situations where you do not get the ride you want st the time you want. Aligning it with your day plans might be tricky..but if you arrive at between 10 and noon like us, you'll still be able to get the rides you want. Book it and wait the two hours for the next one.

The tine limit thing makes this seem much more like a paid FP+ IE there's nothing better than FP+ on tap. Also explains the price point. Nothing like express pass would work at this low cost level. Hopefully the take rate is low and regular lines move alot better. The IAEs might be worth it to avoid the lotterys that seem to be the norm going forward.

 

[Chi84]

Disney reduces staffing on days of anticipated lower attendance. This leads to issues with capacity even on those days. The most obvious example being empty cash registers at shops and restaurants.

Again, whether or not you notice or care, your vacation experience is being impacted by these higher level decisions. That's why the rest of us are having this conversation.

So increasing capacity won't help because Disney will just reduce staffing to what it considers acceptable levels. That's certainly a company decision that will impact people's vacations. It won't matter how many new rides they add if there isn't enough staff to run them.

Everyone notices that their vacations are being adversely impacted by some of the company's decisions. That's really not an issue. It isn't news that Disney started charging for resort parking, discontinued DME, monetized their line reservation system, etc. The question is how to respond to it. Some posters have started picking and choosing which events or options they believe are not worth the cost and criticizing others who find value in them, suggesting that they are ignorant or selfish for choosing those options. Those are the conversations I find unhelpful, although certainly within bounds on a discussion board.

 

[matt9112]

No one is making you get up at 7am.

No one makes you get a job either....yet its kind of a good idea.

 

[matt9112]

Okay, maybe I'm in for a rude awakening next week when we get there, but I am a baffled at why everyone thinks this is so complicated. You don't like it - sure. But complicated? I think some of you are trying very hard to make it seem complicated...

Guess I'll find out.

Not everyone is you....how many guests ask where hogwarts is standing in front of spaceship earth?

Facts.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Why do you think that? Lets just look at SDD with it's ride capacity of ~2000pph. This means in a 12 hour day 24,000 people can ride this ride. Assuming 50% LL capacity, there are 12,000 SDD LL available each day. In 2019 (the last "normal" year) ~11.5 million people visited Hollywood studios or an average of ~31,500 people a day. If "50% at best" buy Genie plus on an average day 15,750 people will have it.

Not difficult to see how the 15,750 people could take all 12,000 SDD LL for the day. Remember this is an average day, assuming 50% ride capacity to LL.

50 percent ride capacity to LL seems low to me. Estimates were that around 80 percent of ride capacity went to fastpass+.

 

[Jeff4272]

50 percent ride capacity to LL seems low to me. Estimates were that around 80 percent of ride capacity went to fastpass+.

Right but FP was free and most people utilized it.

I don’t know what percentage of guests are going to buy IAS and Genie+ but I do know it’s WAY less than the percentage of people that used FP+, thus reducing the number of people in the FP line and letting it be more equal distribution

If I had to guess, I bet 25% of guests buy genie+ and Ias.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

As a local and someone that’s not all that invested in this process, I can’t wait to see how many purchase Genie and then try to walk into FoP.

Yeah, this. Especially the first year or so this is going to be constant. The poor cm’s on the fastpass lines. They’re going to be constantly arguing with people who just paid $60 for their family of four thinking it’s a line skip because nobody reads the fine print. And unlike fastpass, they’re going to be ed when they find out that their $60 per day investment over a 7 day trip is not at all what they thought it was.

 

[Kamikaze]

Right but FP was free and most people utilized it.

I don’t know what percentage of guests are going to buy IAS and Genie+ but I do know it’s WAY less than the percentage of people that used FP+, thus reducing the number of people in the FP line and letting it be more equal distribution

If I had to guess, I bet 25% of guests buy genie+ and Ias.

Between 10-25% bought MaxPass at DL during its run. It varied, but it was usually on the 10-15% side of the range.

Its both different crowds and a different thing because MaxPass still had free FP, but I'd say it will be somewhere between 20-40%.

 

[Kamikaze]

Genie, LL, IAS etc is objectively the most complex line regulating system WDW has ever had. You can’t really deny that’s not the case. Scott Gustin’s thread on twitter explaining the intricacies and scenarios is 11 tweets long.

Whether the learning curve is short or not remains to be seen. As a local and someone that’s not all that invested in this process, I can’t wait to see how many purchase Genie and then try to walk into FoP.

Yeah, this. Especially the first year or so this is going to be constant. The poor cm’s on the fastpass lines. They’re going to be constantly arguing with people who just paid $60 for their family of four thinking it’s a line skip because nobody reads the fine print. And unlike fastpass, they’re going to be ****ed when they find out that their $60 per day investment over a 7 day trip is not at all what they thought it was.

But... why would they try to do that? They have to book the LL for the rides they want to go on, and they won't be able to do that without the IAS for Flight of Passage. Its not going to be in the same list of attractions as the other Genie+ rides. You can't just walk on any attraction at any time...

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

You won’t be offered afternoon times at 7am for genie+ LLs. That’s not how the system works.

You might be for SDD.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

But... why would they try to do that? They have to book the LL for the rides they want to go on, and they won't be able to do that without the IAS for Flight of Passage. Its not going to be in the same list of attractions as the other Genie+ rides. You can't just walk on any attraction at any time...

Because it is a complicated system and a not insignificant number of people are going to think that it’s the same as universal and every other theme park where you pay and get to access the fastpass lines period. They’re not going to understand that it’s a scheduled system or that there are multiple tiers of rides costing different amounts. I know of no other theme parks where you pay bust still have to schedule rides. This is absolutely going to happen, and the fact that it is not free is going to cause arguments. Lots of them. Add in international tourists who dont’ have English as a first language as well.

 

[Kamikaze]

Because it is a complicated system and a not insignificant number of people are going to think that it’s the same as universal and every other theme park where you pay and get to access the fastpass lines period. I know of no other theme parks where you pay bust still have to schedule rides. This is absolutely going to happen, and the fact that it is not free is going to cause arguments. Lots of them.

Lets add this to the list of artificial non-problems then, shall we?

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Thats just a really complicated way of saying the min wait timer doesn’t start until park opening…, which was already covered

No, there’s a subtle difference there, especially if the return windows for LL are 1 hour like they were for FP+. That bumps it up to potentially a 3 hour timer after park opening to pull your second LL depending on your arrival time and plans.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

I am a big fan of TouringPlans, but their crowd level forecasts have not been great lately - through no fault of their own. It's impossible to model current crowds because the circumstances are somewhat unprecedented. They had large crowds for early October but those crowds never materialized. So they adjusted later October lower. Then Columbus weekend crowds started showing up again so they adjusted things upwards.

Best thing to do is use their plans for the higher level and then look at any lower crowd level as a nice bonus.

Touringplans right now is best for their real-time lines app (which is much much more accurate then the bs wait times that disney puts on the app), and historical crowd data.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Lets add this to the list of artificial non-problems then, shall we?

So you think that decreased guest satisfaction is not a problem? Do you work for Disney?

 

[JoeCamel]

Relevant to all the new charges. This is what you have shown for years @ParentsOf4

 

[Touchdown]

Get over the angst all ready people! I’m going very soon and currently have no plan to buy G+ or IAS. I’m going to see how it goes, I’m much more open to buying G+ if I can’t do what I want to do but I foresee no future where I buy IAS. Im going to see how it goes.

That’s mainly my rule for any pay to cut system, and most of the time I don’t need to buy it at other parks (the exception being Universal but only because it comes free with staying at their wonderful hotels I would probably stay at anyways.) The only time I consistently buy those add ons are Halloween events because haunted house lines move slow glacially slow it’s scary.