Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[Ayla]

How many October’s have you been to recently? I’ve been going nearly yearly for over 5 years, and compared to my other trips (early Dec, Feb, May) October was always the most crowded.

Same.

 

[Casper Gutman]

You really can't get over that Boo Bash is a different type of event from MNSSHP, can you?

Nothing in my comment here said anything about not comparing things, FYI.

Having said that, comparing Genie+ to Fastpass makes sense because they are similar programs with the primary difference being the attached fee.

People can also compare the two Halloween events as well. The issue is many people focused on it being less of a party, but ignored the fact that an AH event offers minimal wait times for attractions as a key element. They're two different events with different benefits and different price points and any comparison should acknowledge that the two events offer different things and which one is better is largely a matter of personal preference.

Minimal wait times were ALSO a feature of the party! For me they were the main feature. I stopped going in about 2016, but the parties featured walk on lines for pretty much everything but Mine Train, exactly like now. If the lines got longer after that, it’s because Disney wanted them to.

This idea that short lines weren’t a, arguably THE, attraction of the parties is pure, absolute revisionism. It’s an example of Disney PR gaslighting.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Minimal wait times were ALSO a feature of the party! For me they were the main feature. I stopped going in about 2016, but the parties featured walk on lines for pretty much everything but Mine Train, exactly like now. If the lines got longer after that, it’s because Disney wanted them to.

This idea that short lines weren’t a, arguably THE, attraction of the parties is pure, absolute revisionism. It’s an example of Disney PR gaslighting.

MNSSHP sold seemingly limitless tickets, especially in the later years. The only line that stayed consistently shorter than normal operating hours was Splash Mountain when it was cool out.

 

[Casper Gutman]

MNSSHP sold seemingly limitless tickets, especially in the later years. The only line that stayed consistently shorter than normal operating hours was Splash Mountain when it was cool out.

Define “later years,” because I went to many, many parties, and I went for short lines. I almost never watched shows, did character M&Gs. I might watch a parade. And I waited in short lines.

 

[mikejs78]

Define “later years,” because I went to many, many parties, and I went for short lines. I almost never watched shows, did character M&Gs. I might watch a parade. And I waited in short lines.

Later years = 2016 to 2019 or so...

 

[Touchdown]

Even in the later years, and with watching all the entertainment (including the castle show, twice) I could consistently go on a few Candy trails maybe do a meet and greet and get on the rides I wanted mainly:

-Space
-Peoplemover
-Pooh
-SDMT
-Mermaid
-Pan
-HM
-Splash
-BTMRR
-CBJ
-Pirates
-Philharmagic or COP or Tiki Room

That was getting in at 3pm, and utilizing FP+, but without FP I feel I would have only had to scrub the last item, and Pan.

 

[UNCgolf]

According to Touring Plans, October 2019, the last October prior to the pandemic, had average crowd levels of 3.7 out of 10. This isn't a matter of opinion. You're statistically, mathematically incorrect.

October 2018 averaged 4.4 out of 10.

How does that compare to the rest of the year, though? i.e. where does that rank out of all 12 months in 2018/2019.

I have no idea; I'm just curious.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

How does that compare to the rest of the year, though? i.e. where does that rank out of all 12 months in 2018/2019.

I have no idea; I'm just curious.

I have no interest in doing every month, but July 2019 was 6.0 for one point of comparison.

 

[UNCgolf]

I have no interest in doing every month, but July 2019 was 6.0 for one point of comparison.

Oh I thought maybe they had that info readily available; didn't know you were calculating it yourself.

 

[flynnibus]

You really can't get over that Boo Bash is a different type of event from MNSSHP, can you?

if you think that - you are not actually reading what is said. the posts were about customer expectations… customer patterns… and how customers will naturally draw comparisons between similar products when you position them as Disney has. The fact they are different offers doesn’t matter to the natural psyche of the customers. If you swap something out in the same place as something else… or swap out a long standing offer… guests are not going to instantly forget what they had prior… and will yearn for the aspects they had grown to like.

Just like people are expecting all these things they were used to with FP … like multiple uses, etc. should i pound my fist at them “these are different things! Genie isn’t FP” when people are disappointed that genie costs more and offers different things?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

if you think that - you are not actually reading what is said. the posts were about customer expectations… customer patterns… and how customers will naturally draw comparisons between similar products when you position them as Disney has. The fact they are different offers doesn’t matter to the natural psyche of the customers. If you swap something out in the same place as something else… or swap out a long standing offer… guests are not going to instantly forget what they had prior… and will yearn for the aspects they had grown to like.

Just like people are expecting all these things they were used to with FP … like multiple uses, etc. should i pound my fist at them “these are different things! Genie isn’t FP” when people are disappointed that genie costs more and offers different things?

The part that annoys me is when the "different things" are things that people DIDN'T like before, and have been arguably improved, yet people still complain. The easiest example is how much everyone hated how MNSSHP forced Magic Kingdom to close early on party nights and concentrated fireworks crowds into the days that didn't have parties. Boo Bash fixes that.

I don't begrudge people for drawing comparisons, I begrudge people who only look at one side of the ledger.

 

[flynnibus]

The parties drew people *to the parties.* They didn't transform middle-of-a-Tuesday October into peak attendance.

the whole point of the offers like special entertainment and events is to draw more attendance and extract their wallets.

disney didn’t add all those epcot festivals in all the wierd seasons because thats when some vendor was free or because of the weather - they were placed to bloster what used to be more quiet periods.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

the whole point of the offers like special entertainment and events is to draw more attendance and extract their wallets.

disney didn’t add all those epcot festivals in all the wierd seasons because thats when some vendor was free or because of the weather - they were placed to bloster what used to be more quiet periods.

You seem to be arguing with me but that's exactly my point.

 

[flynnibus]

I don't begrudge people for drawing comparisons, I begrudge people who only look at one side of the ledger.

yet people weren’t allow to value things because “its a different event!”.

no - the history is all there.

Besides - people can still miss something even if there are other aspects added. Each will have their own accounting of what the sum looks like to them. Not everyone will have the same values. And just because the rules change doesn’t mean people will instantly “switch”

just like some people keep thinking about prebuying genie… want the same next pass rules they had before… prescheduling…

it’s the same core issue of customer expectations through prior use and comfort. It doesn’t matter what you draw up… that customer behavior will be there until you swoon them to your new product.

but since Disney controls all the strings and there is no direct alternative in the parks… disney doesn’t have to get as far as getting people to like it… They just need to tolerate it. Then through repetition disney conditions them to agreeing with them

 

[Jrb1979]

You really can't get over that Boo Bash is a different type of event from MNSSHP, can you?

Nothing in my comment here said anything about not comparing things, FYI.

Having said that, comparing Genie+ to Fastpass makes sense because they are similar programs with the primary difference being the attached fee.

People can also compare the two Halloween events as well. The issue is many people focused on it being less of a party, but ignored the fact that an AH event offers minimal wait times for attractions as a key element. They're two different events with different benefits and different price points and any comparison should acknowledge that the two events offer different things and which one is better is largely a matter of personal preference.

I don't compare the two Halloween events to each other. My issue has always been the paring down of events. The fact that HHN can go on as normal but Disney can't do MNSSHP says a lot.

 

[flynnibus]

You seem to be arguing with me but that's exactly my point.

Parties were bait. And they (along with *festivals and rundisney) did transform crowd patterns

 

[Buried20KLeague]

I think it's time to take a step back and (re)gain a sense of perspective if you really feel "abused" by Disney. When all is said and done, a trip to WDW is a frivolous luxury, not a human right or need.

if you’ve been going to WDW for 20 years, you’re absolutely taking abuse to go now in comparison.

unless you’d like to prove how ticket prices have increased at a similar rate to inflation.

pro tip: don’t try…. It will fail miserably.

 

[Chi84]

if you’ve been going to WDW for 20 years, you’re absolutely taking abuse to go now in comparison.

unless you’d like to prove how ticket prices have increased at a similar rate to inflation.

pro tip: don’t try…. It will fail miserably.

Why would ticket prices have to increase at a rate similar to inflation to still provide good value. The WDW we visited in 1984 was a pale shadow of what exists today. Today there are so many more parks, resorts, entertainment venues, transportation forms, etc. There’s nothing that compares to WDW when it comes to my family’s vacations. I’m paying more, but it’s worth it to me.

 

[J4546]

im pleasantly surprised by the list of Genie+ lightning lane rides that dont require extra money. I figured IJ and SM would have the upcharges like RISE, but the only rides in CA that would require an upcharge are RISE, RSR, and WS (Though I bet WS will prob be a regular lightning lane line sooner than later)and hopefully RISE opens its standby line like they did in DHS soon as well

I was at DL/CA thursday and it was packed, super busy but even still the lines were not that bad. We rode RISE and WB using VQ, and the longest line was maybe 40ish minutes for IJ and HM....and a 40 minute wait isnt that bad. but man it was busy, gone are those 20% capacity days, it was nice while it lasted though. Also I rode the Railroad for the first time from Tomorrowland to The Main entrance and saw the Grand Canyon and Dinosaurs shows. Pretty cool stuff!

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Why would ticket prices have to increase at a rate similar to inflation to still provide good value. The WDW we visited in 1984 was a pale shadow of what exists today. Today there are so many more parks, resorts, entertainment venues, transportation forms, etc. There’s nothing that compares to WDW when it comes to my family’s vacations. I’m paying more, but it’s worth it to me.

it doesn’t. But chart the two. It’s not even CLOSE. By an embarrassing amount.