Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[doctornick]

Okay, explain this to me. (If my analogy is not apt, please replace with one that is).

In a room, we have four bowls of food and ten people. The ten people attempt to eat out of the bowls but are continually jockeying for position. If we bring in a fifth bowl, everyone will have an easier time eating.

NOW, I know what you're going to say, one of the bowls has better and more food in it. It has shrimp, steak, crab cakes, etc. People will want to eat out of that bowl the most. But this seems contradictory to your idea that bringing a fifth bowl into the room will increase the amount of people trying to eat out of the bowls. If this fifth bowl is popular enough to entice MORE people to go, then why are they still crowding around the Shrimp/Steak/Crab bowl, wouldn't those people already have been in the room?

(What a convoluted metaphor!)

Adding a fifth bowl will bring 4 more people to the table exacerbating the situation. The better option is to add more food to each bowl for everyone to share.

 

[jpinkc]

It appears Disney does not want its guests to sleep during their visit.

Yes sleeping make Slappie No Money!!! Sleeping not allowed under Genie's watch

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

I think most of the backlash is over the individual attraction purchases, but I could be wrong.

It's definitely an issue for me.

They just opened Rise of the Resistance, the type of new attraction that people book vacations for. It's, by all accounts, hard to get on. Especially at WDW where four parks and a reservation system means one might get one chance during a trip to maybe get on it.

Assuming capacity allows, it should be guaranteed once for anyone booking a multi-day stay of 4 days or more.

The new systems means one can buy their way onto it, which can be reassuring but simultaneously infuriating.

 

[jpinkc]

Adding a fifth bowl will bring 4 more people to the table exacerbating the situation. The better option is to add more food to each bowl for everyone to share.

And its far cheaper and quicker!!

 

[Mickeyboof]

With all this pathetic scrounging for extra cash, I hope Disney at least runs all ride vehicles and trains, and employ each loading platform throughout all hours of operation. I know they won’t, that would reduce wait times and increase maintenance costs.

 

[DisneyDodo]

Or......

(And I know has been suggested constantly for the past 22 years and always shut down)

They could build a fifth gate. If the issue is that there are too many people in the resorts and they're not building rides, keep the hotel rooms the same and build a fifth park. In theory you would reduce congestion in the other parks by 20%. I understand that they're super cheap and not interested in creating anything new but that's the obvious fix for the "We have too many people!!" problem.

The problem is not that there are too many guests per park. It's that there are too many guests per attraction capacity. MK is by far the smallest WDW park, and it's considerably bigger than DL with much fewer rides. Meanwhile, the other 3 parks are even bigger, with even less. They could easily reduce congestion by building more in the existing parks. AK has been open for 23 years - it has 7 rides. Epcot and DHS currently have 9 apiece. What do you think this 5th gate would look like when it first opens? I'll tell you - it would have 1 E-ticket (which would have 5-hour lines), 1 D-ticket, a spinner, a couple of shows, and some M&Gs. Plus, you would get to hear all about the coming "Phase 2" that will never happen. You could easily fit all of that into just the empty space in the existing World Showcase pavilions, for example.

 

[aaronml]

It appears Disney does not want its guests to sleep during their visit.

IMO, it would make more sense to let people purchase it for the day at 7am. That would give people a slight incentive to pre-purchase it as a ticket add-on.

Also, if all the good FPs/LLs on Genie+ sell out in the 1-2 mins (at most) it will take to buy Genie+, they will definitely increase the price of it. Same goes for the Tier-1 LL purchases.

 

[el_super]

There's the obvious fix of building more rides in the three of four parks have way too few attractions to offer any of these systems effectively.

I still completely stand by the idea that building more attractions does nothing to solve the crowding problems. Attractions generate more attendance, and just shift the crowds from one side of the park to the other. The weight of a general "park lines are too long" complaint is far less severe than a "I waited 7 hours for a new attraction" complaint.

They have built numerous attractions in the 20 years since Fastpass debuted, and we are still here arguing about crowding, so clearly they did nothing to solve for it.

Nah, the real question is whether the product is over priced and the potential customers are now realizing it? Yeah, how will demand work then?

LOL wut? We're in a thread talking about crowd management solutions and you want to suggest the parks are overpriced?

Do you think that making the entrance free would make the lines go away?

We all know this is a balancing act: Guests want cheap admission and no waits, and Disney wants to maximize admission prices and manage crowds. I am personally willing to spend more money to get a better experience. If Disney could guarantee that wait times would be under 30 minutes for most attractions, I would actually be willing to pay a lot (and yeah, I have attended some of the private parties here at Disneyland and they have been GREAT).

Disney could significantly raise prices (because they are underpriced) to lower the wait times across the board. They don't do that because they know some portion of their audience would be priced out, and they want to still offer a product for those people to keep them engaged with the product, and to still get some form of revenue from them. It is a lesser product for less money? Absolutely. Is it better than just being priced out entirely? Maybe.

if the highest end price is $24 dollars it wont be fewer gusts buying. They will jump on them. That was the number floating around even though not confirmed.

Exactly... and this goes to what I am attempting to say above: Disney is seeking the fair compromise between pricing people out, and offering a quality product. If enough people are willing to purchase Genie+ at $20, that the actual experience is degraded (long wait times even with the add-on) then they will have to raise the price for it. If the demand for individual attractions is so high that they book out even at $24 a ride, they will have to raise the prices.

Since spending $140 dollars for a 5 hour party isn't out of line, shouldn't the daily admission when the park is open for 15 hours be closer to $400?

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I still completely stand by the idea that building more attractions does nothing to solve the crowding problems. Attractions generate more attendance, and just shift the crowds from one side of the park to the other. The weight of a general "park lines are too long" complaint is far less severe than a "I waited 7 hours for a new attraction" complaint.

They have built numerous attractions in the 20 years since Fastpass debuted, and we are still here arguing about crowding, so clearly they did nothing to solve for it.




LOL wut? We're in a thread talking about crowd management solutions and you want to suggest the parks are overpriced?

Do you think that making the entrance free would make the lines go away?

We all know this is a balancing act: Guests want cheap admission and no waits, and Disney wants to maximize admission prices and manage crowds. I am personally willing to spend more money to get a better experience. If Disney could guarantee that wait times would be under 30 minutes for most attractions, I would actually be willing to pay a lot (and yeah, I have attended some of the private parties here at Disneyland and they have been GREAT).

Disney could significantly raise prices (because they are underpriced) to lower the wait times across the board. They don't do that because they know some portion of their audience would be priced out, and they want to still offer a product for those people to keep them engaged with the product, and to still get some form of revenue from them. It is a lesser product for less money? Absolutely. Is it better than just being priced out entirely? Maybe.




Exactly... and this goes to what I am attempting to say above: Disney is seeking the fair compromise between pricing people out, and offering a quality product. If enough people are willing to purchase Genie+ at $20, that the actual experience is degraded (long wait times even with the add-on) then they will have to raise the price for it. If the demand for individual attractions is so high that they book out even at $24 a ride, they will have to raise the prices.

Since spending $140 dollars for a 5 hour party isn't out of line, shouldn't the daily admission when the park is open for 15 hours be closer to $400?

They haven't added capacity. There is less hourly capacity now than there was 20-30 years ago.

 

[Missing20K]

Adding a fifth bowl will bring 4 more people to the table exacerbating the situation. The better option is to add more food to each bowl for everyone to share.

Careful, if you have too much food for that bowl you’ll need a bigger one and then potentially be charged for sharing an entree thus opening up the possibility to add one more person to the meal so they can stand, chairless, eating out of your bowl of food.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

I’m somewhat puzzled by the negative reaction. Those of us who really enjoyed using FastPass+ have every reason to dislike this replacement, but most people here were calling for a system that entailed greater spontaneity (along the lines of the old paper FastPasses) and that would have fewer users than FP+ (because of the belief that the latter inflates standby lines). Doesn’t this new system tick both of those boxes?

It should be better for the people who use it, but worse for the people who don't. To what degree, will depend on how many people use it in a given day.

I suspect it will favour tourists. What's another $15 or $20 a day when you're spending thousands of dollars? Locals who visit frequently will be more likely to balk at an extra fee each time.

The price is low enough that I think it will be popular, and will end up pushing people on the fence to buying in as well, because it will continue to impact standby wait times. If it becomes a de facto necessity, then it's ultimately just another price increase. That's one reason for negative reactions.

Another is access to something like RoTR which is already difficult, and slapping a price tag on it might feel like a slap in the face.

 

[arich35]

I am trying to decide if we should still buy our tickets now through Tmobile Tuesdays app (cheaper than other options if you have Tmobile) now or maybe wait to see when genie tickets are available if they will be discounted on there as well.

 

[pdude81]

The problem is not that there are too many guests per park. It's that there are too many guests per attraction capacity. MK is by far the smallest WDW park, and it's considerably bigger than DL with much fewer rides. Meanwhile, the other 3 parks are even bigger, with even less. They could easily reduce congestion by building more in the existing parks. AK has been open for 23 years - it has 7 rides. Epcot and DHS currently have 9 apiece. What do you think this 5th gate would look like when it first opens? I'll tell you - it would have 1 E-ticket (which would have 5-hour lines), 1 D-ticket, a spinner, a couple of shows, and some M&Gs. Plus, you would get to hear all about the coming "Phase 2" that will never happen. You could easily fit all of that into just the empty space in the existing World Showcase pavilions, for example.

I think that whether you're building more rides in the existing parks or a new park with more rides, the same goal is reached. There would be more to do, and more new rides to charge for lightning lane passes for. However, it costs a lot more money up front to build another park and lock people into it until 2pm. Also costs money to get people to another location. There will be an attendance bump regardless when new things come online but that's unavoidable. I'd like to see a new park to allow for more overall capacity down the road, but they don't seem to even want to pay for the rides they'd already announced and started building.

 

[el_super]

With all this pathetic scrounging for extra cash, I hope Disney at least runs all ride vehicles and trains, and employ each loading platform throughout all hours of operation. I know they won’t, that would reduce wait times and increase maintenance costs.

The problem is not that there are too many guests per park. It's that there are too many guests per attraction capacity.

Both of these represent a certain kind of problem that Fastpass was supposed to fix. It isn't that the parks are under capacity, it's mostly that the capacity they do have is not utilized efficiently. The PeopleMover and Carousel of Progress both have pretty decent capacity, but if they go empty most of the day, it's wasted. Something like Splash Mountain could have 60+ minute waits in the afternoon, and a huge drop off at night (maybe not so much in Florida).

Running attractions at full capacity at all hours of the day is wasted, unless you can convince people to ride X attraction at Y time. Fastpass tried to do this, and Genie is just the next evolution of that.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

First off, I again agree with all that you are saying here. Spot on, IMO.

Secondly, you’re a great contributor here, and I have no doubt a great person as well. So with that said, my apologies for going back and forth with you the other night. It really was silly and offered nothing to this forum. I hope you have a great day, my friend!

You were correct in saying they have been “building”…i just think it wasn’t received well because of the announcement of paid rides - like a Jersey boardwalk - in the context that they have really not cared about keeping up with capacity - and exploited it for fee - under the Bobs.

it’s possible everyone was “right”

 

[aliceismad]

Since spending $140 dollars for a 5 hour party isn't out of line, shouldn't the daily admission when the park is open for 15 hours be closer to $400?

It is pretty interesting that a party ticket is now often more than a full-day admission. Sometimes a lot more. I believe the Christmas party tops out at $250 a person?

 

[NoOtherOptions]

Yet to be seen. Even the lowliest of creatures on this earth will take a stand if pushed enough.

Did Disneyland Paris scrap their plan? No. This is a better version of that. I get that everyone's salty but let's be realistic. They've been working on Genie for like a year. A member here posted about it like last Spring. If you think they're scrapping it because of salty board posters and blogs I think you are being overly optimistic. Half the posts in the this thread as just resignation to it.

 

[el_super]

They haven't added capacity. There is less hourly capacity now than there was 20-30 years ago.

Capacity is only valuable if it's actually used.

 

[GimpYancIent]

Both of these represent a certain kind of problem that Fastpass was supposed to fix. It isn't that the parks are under capacity, it's mostly that the capacity they do have is not utilized efficiently. The PeopleMover and Carousel of Progress both have pretty decent capacity, but if they go empty most of the day, it's wasted. Something like Splash Mountain could have 60+ minute waits in the afternoon, and a huge drop off at night (maybe not so much in Florida).

Running attractions at full capacity at all hours of the day is wasted, unless you can convince people to ride X attraction at Y time. Fastpass tried to do this, and Genie is just the next evolution of that.

Hmmmm convincing people to ride something not just more but at specific times by charging more? Sure.

 

[aladdin2007]

I have enjoyed most of the vloggers takes on the subject, especially Brayden and Tom Corless(sp?). My question is, how does everyone feel about Josh D'Amaro now? Is he just playing the role or is he a sellout now?

we haven't seen or heard from him I think hes in hiding, because I dont think there are too many people happy right now with Disney. The ceo dictator needs to go for one thing.