Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[Patcheslee]

Took a couple days but finally made it to the end.

I really don't understand why they would rename Fastpass to Lightning Lane. They had a term that people had known and used forever and easily could have had Genie+ book fastpasses instead of Lightning Lane(s?). What a dumb change IMO. The words Lightning Lane will be hard for a lot of kids to verbalize and a new guest wouldn't have a clue what they meant until they got to the park and other people were getting in that line.

Personally I think it’s to get away with terminology of something that was free. Also it will be easier for guests to identify that any article that references how to use Fastpass is obsolete.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I despise surge pricing and pay-to-play/pay-to-win. Both should be illegal, IMO.

How is surge pricing anything different than "a hotel on Cape Cod in July is five times more expensive than that same hotel in February"?

 

[GimpYancIent]

Nope. A fifth gate would increase total crowd levels by more than 20%, making things more crowded, not less. And those crowds would disproportionately visit the Magic Kingdom. And they would disproportionately want to be on Main Street at Fireworks time.

Bringing more total people to Walt Disney World puts additional strain on the spots that are already pinch points.

Universal is loving it and will happily take any Disney overflow.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Interesting. Then why continue dropping ticket prices for people who stay beyond nights/days?

I mean they need SOME of those people or they're not going to fill all of the beds.

 

[corran horn]

I can see customer relations keeping busy.

All these things are of course failure points.

 

[DCLcruiser]

But you still have to reserve the time that Disney Chooses

Maybe I am not understanding, but Disney always dictated what time you returned for FP. How is this different?

 

[ImperfectPixie]

But you can still visit without planning. Plenty of guests do just that, as we all know from having overheard first-timers asking such questions as “Where is Harry Potter?”

I think the real issue is the loss of quiet periods—now it’s always busy, and without planning, you’re likely to lose much of your time to queues. But I would argue that’s always been the case on really crowded days.

I edited my previous comment to include the capacity issues.

Disney has spent what...$2 billion on MDX and now another billion on Genie? That should have gone into adding hourly capacity. The in-park entertainment that didn't require theaters should never have been axed. Neither should the games have been axed in MK. They've effectively gotten rid of anything that doesn't require a butt in a seat that contributed to keeping people occupied for a short amount of time...granted, it may not seem like much, but all those little things add up. Now, all the people that would have stood and watched performers in World Showcase or spent 30 minutes playing one of the MK games are either in a restaurant, shop, or line or on their way to one.

 

[UNCgolf]

I’m somewhat puzzled by the negative reaction. Those of us who really enjoyed using FastPass+ have every reason to dislike this replacement, but most people here were calling for a system that entailed greater spontaneity (along the lines of the old paper FastPasses) and that would have fewer users than FP+ (because of the belief that the latter inflates standby lines). Doesn’t this new system tick both of those boxes?

I think most of the backlash is over the individual attraction purchases, but I could be wrong.

 

[doctornick]

Or rope dropping them, which is an option everywhere except Rise and, initially, Rat.

Especially if you are on site and can get in 30 minutes early. Or are staying in Deluxe/DVC and get some evening hours.

We stay DVC so for me right now, this basically just seems like a $15 a day ticket price increase to get old style FP. I like that they are digital (no running around), I don’t like that they are day of - I’d rather pre-book but it’s not that big a deal and it does allow some flexibility. I actually am fine with the ROTR boarding pass system, it’s stressful but can be mastered and it’s free. I’d rather have that and know if I get it or not in the morning then plan accordingly rather than a FOP situation where it is rope drop or long line.

With DVC stays we can do some evening hours, I’m just hoping all four parks get added to that.

My biggest gripe about Genie+ is that it adds the $15 a day to every day of the trip if we use it every day. So when we get 7+ day tickets the extra few days are only like $10 more per day compared to earlier days (sometimes less with Undercover Tourist promotions). So those last few days will be more like $25 add ones. We generally do more days just because the extra days are “cheap” and allow us to be more leisurely in the parks some days. I guess we could not get Genie+ each day but (1) it sounded like you have to purchase for the entire ticket if you do it in advance and (2) it will feel odd having some days without LL and not sure how the kids will deal with it.

Anyway, we typically only go once every 2 or 3 years or so and just went so we won’t have to figure it out until the system is mature and it’s more clear how it will work. So I’ll let everyone else be guinea pigs.

 

[pdude81]

I think they had to change the name just so people didn't think it behaved the way the old FP system did.

All of the media I've seen about this is negative. All of it. It's interesting to watch.

I can understand why they'd ask the question around the room as to whether it would be more confusing using the name Fastpass or not. I just think this offering is so convoluted that it's confusing anyway, and they've now lost control of the one thing people understood: Fastpass is the thing you use to skip the standby line. It's a pass to the fast line.

They changed it from Fastpass to Fastpass+ when they updated the program, but the thing was still a fastpass. It's certainly not up to me, but I just don't see any benefit at all from changing the name. Hell they could make it Fastpass with a lightning symbol instead of the plus so they had to do less painting. Or put a lamp or genie head after the word.

I think really smart people overcomplicate things when they start worrying about people understanding the Fastpass+ program name or misread their own cherry-picked survey responses. The new "programs" are Genie and Genie+, which help you score something else. Why it couldn't just be that Genie+ lets you reserve fastpasses to these rides and [Insert program name here] lets you reserve the paid fastpasses I can't comprehend.

 

[rawisericho]

Nope. A fifth gate would increase total crowd levels by more than 20%, making things more crowded, not less. And those crowds would disproportionately visit the Magic Kingdom. And they would disproportionately want to be on Main Street at Fireworks time.

Bringing more total people to Walt Disney World puts additional strain on the spots that are already pinch points.

Okay, explain this to me. (If my analogy is not apt, please replace with one that is).

In a room, we have four bowls of food and ten people. The ten people attempt to eat out of the bowls but are continually jockeying for position. If we bring in a fifth bowl, everyone will have an easier time eating.

NOW, I know what you're going to say, one of the bowls has better and more food in it. It has shrimp, steak, crab cakes, etc. People will want to eat out of that bowl the most. But this seems contradictory to your idea that bringing a fifth bowl into the room will increase the amount of people trying to eat out of the bowls. If this fifth bowl is popular enough to entice MORE people to go, then why are they still crowding around the Shrimp/Steak/Crab bowl, wouldn't those people already have been in the room?

(What a convoluted metaphor!)

 

[Patcheslee]

Most people: RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE, I hate planning 60 days in advance.

Same exact people: RAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE, how could they get rid of the thing that let me plan 60 days in advance?

Why not split the difference and book a week or 2 in advance? We're still dealing with park reservations as well, which throws the whole spontaneity out of it. What if you have a park reservation, somehow don't get the rides one was expecting, but other parks have rides you were looking to do later in a visit?
And no one has answered how the individual paid attraction will be handled with rider swap. Do double riders have to pay twice, or get a 2nd ride free?

 

[VJ]

I like the narrative of "It's a theme park standard!". Like, I'm glad freakin Cedar Point and Six Flags are dictating how DISNEY does business.

"We just added tons of roller coasters and removed our dark rides. That's an industry standard!"

Yep. Exactly.

“When I started on Disneyland, my wife used to say, ‘But why do you want to build an amusement park? They’re so dirty.’ I told her that was just the point—mine wouldn’t be.” -Walt Disney

Disneyland (and by extension the other Disney parks) has always been a step above. Chapek doesn't see it that way, and according to posts in this thread, neither does anyone else.

I'm disappointed.

 

[GimpYancIent]

I edited my previous comment to include the capacity issues.

Disney has spent what...$2 billion on MDX and now another billion on Genie? That should have gone into adding hourly capacity. The in-park entertainment that didn't require theaters should never have been axed. Neither should the games have been axed in MK. They've effectively gotten rid of anything that doesn't require a butt in a seat that contributed to keeping people occupied for a short amount of time...granted, it may not seem like much, but all those little things add up. Now, all the people that would have stood and watched performers in World Showcase or spent 30 minutes playing one of the MK games are either in a restaurant, shop, or line or on their way to one.

or have moved on to Universal.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

How is surge pricing anything different than "a hotel on Cape Cod in July is five times more expensive than that same hotel in February"?

Because seasonal pricing can be planned for. Surge pricing means the price can fluctuate minute-by-minute. It's VERY anti-consumer.

 

[Andrew25]

Or......

(And I know has been suggested constantly for the past 22 years and always shut down)

They could build a fifth gate. If the issue is that there are too many people in the resorts and they're not building rides, keep the hotel rooms the same and build a fifth park. In theory you would reduce congestion in the other parks by 20%. I understand that they're super cheap and not interested in creating anything new but that's the obvious fix for the "We have too many people!!" problem.

Animal Kingdom is severely underbuilt. 4 E-Tickets only. The most popular one has atrocious capacity.
Hollywood Studios is severely underbuilt. It's most popular E-Ticket is an operational nightmare.
Epcot isn't underbuilt but rather an issue of no significant updates. Living with the Land has great capacity, but it's not popular. Same with Nemo, Mission Space, etc. Everyone wants to ride the same 4 (SSE,Test,Soarin,Frozen) rides.
Magic Kingdom is underbuilt for the attendance it receives. There's no reason why that park should have less attractions than Disneyland. (Don't kid yourself, most guests can care less for Country Bear, Tiki, CoP, PeopleMover, Presidents)

Also, Tron is going to have atrocious capacity. Seating 14 guests, and dispatching at a rate of approximately 45-50 seconds it'll have an hourly capacity of 1,008 to 1,120 an hour. (Hopefully they can get those dispatches faster)

 

[Myth Maker]

Nope. A fifth gate would increase total crowd levels by more than 20%, making things more crowded, not less. And those crowds would disproportionately visit the Magic Kingdom. And they would disproportionately want to be on Main Street at Fireworks time.

Bringing more total people to Walt Disney World puts additional strain on the spots that are already pinch points.

Another option would be to double the capacity of the Magic Kingdom ... How?

Turn it into a two session park, and run it for more hours.

Session A - 7 am till 3 pm
Session B - 3 pm till 11 pm

$120 a ticket for each session or $200 for both.

Now you essentially doubled MKs capacity for the day. Like a restaurant turning tables over during the evening hours.

Or if you want to be crazy, build a second MK

 

[po1998]

For a company that is so cost conscious, the fact that they are going to spend $$$$ on new signage is silly.

Just call it Fast Pass and keep the Fast Pass Entrance signs.

But then they couldn’t justify the overpriced salary of the staffer who said “We need a new name for this...I know, let’s call it Lightning Lane”.

 

[DisneyDodo]

I disagree.

Genie+ is not the same product as FastPass+, it's better. It's better because fewer people are using it.

To keep your analogy going, you have to pay $20 extra for the food, but it's not the same hot dog you used to get. It's a sausage and peppers with a beer.

This is only true if you assume that they will allocate the same percentage of capacity for LL that they did for FP. Disney may decide that since only X% of guests purchase G+, they only need X% as many line-skipping reservations. This would make the standby line more palatable, but not nearly enough to offset the loss of FP+ for the guests who don't pay for G+. And it wouldn't improve the line-skipping experience at all (despite costing an extra $15). In the end, everyone would be worse off in this scenario.

 

[GimpYancIent]

Why not split the difference and book a week or 2 in advance? We're still dealing with park reservations as well, which throws the whole spontaneity out of it. What if you have a park reservation, somehow don't get the rides one was expecting, but other parks have rides you were looking to do later in a visit?
And no one has answered how the individual paid attraction will be handled with rider swap. Do double riders have to pay twice, or get a 2nd ride free?

Why not scrap this Genie / Genie + concept / project keep what is already in place while thinking things through on how to, now hold on to your shirt, providing a special experience for the guests. The old happy guests spend more money thing rather than how can how to scam a few more dollars off the suckers.