Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[RSoxNo1]

Thats the reality of it, whether you like it or not.....Fact is, you cannot shoehorn DL model into WDW......It just wouldnt work.........Just as if you tried to do opposite since most DL guests are day guests.........

Now thats a hot take (but doenst seem you can grasp the concept?)

The fact that you supposedly know the differences but still suggest that WDW adopts DL's model shows me you really dont know how it "really" works

Disneyland has the attraction capacity in each park to satisfy multiple advanced bookings per guest per day. They don't do that though because the composition of the guests (see: attendance mix, unfavorable) has no interest in advanced booking of attractions.

Conversely, Walt Disney World may have a composition of guests that would benefit or prefer guaranteeing 3 advanced bookings a day, but the parks themselves lack the ride capacity.

At some point, something has to give. Fastpass+ further exposed the truth on how shallow WDW's attraction lineup actually was. WDW essentially has stretched out 2 1/2 parks worth of rides into 4 parks. Until such time that Disney adds 3-5 additional attractions to each of EPCOT, DHS and DAK, it makes zero sense to have more than a single advanced reservation for guests.

Realistically, the attractions that could conceivably require Genie+/LL/Fastpass/MaxPass/Fastpass+ for the non-castle parks are as follows:

EPCOT

• Daily need (5): Guardians, Ratatouille, Frozen, Soarin', Test Track
• Occasional need (2): Mission: SPACE, Living with the Land
• Doesn't need but currently has (5): Spaceship Earth, Imagination, Seas with Nemo, Turtle Talk, Pixar Film Festival

DHS

• Daily need (7): Tower of Terror, Rock 'n' Roller Coaster, Runaway Railway, Rise of the Resistance, Toy Story Mania, Slinky Dog Dash, Smugglers Run
• Occasional need (2): Alien Swirling Saucers, Star Tours
• Doesn't need but currently has (6): Beauty and the beast live on stage, Disney Junior, Frozen Sing a long, Indiana Jones, Meet Olaf, Muppet*Vision

DAK

• Daily need (6): Flight of Passage, Na'vi River Journey, Kilimanjaro Safaris, Expedition Everest, DINOSAUR, Mickey and Minnie meet and greet
• Occasional need (1): Kali River Rapids
• Doesn't need but currently has (5): Animation Experience, Feathered Friends in Flight, Festival of the Lion King, Finding Nemo, It's Tough to be a Bug

When Fastpass+ existed in tiers, it's success was largely predicated on deceiving the average guest. Genie+ now has a price point added to it, and that deception still exists. If they revert to something resembling Fastpass+ with a Genie+ level price point, that's the worst scenario of all. You've added a price point to an inferior system and to make your sale (with tiers), you are selling guests on paying for experiences that shouldn't have to be paid for.

This is completely a situation where Disney has created a problem and charged for the solution. It's a great business model.

The reason that Genie+ functionality is changing for the 10th time since it was implemented is because the vast majority of guests do not like it.....They want pre booking........Sorry if you are not in that group

The reason it changed for the 9th time was that guests didn't want pre-booking and the parks couldn't handle it. Sorry you're not in that group. They actually cited MaxPass in their initial promotional materials for Genie+.

 

[pigglewiggle]

Does anyone have a rundown of how Genie + and ILLs work with no more reservations and also no hopping restrictions?

 

[TQQQ]

Disneyland has the attraction capacity in each park to satisfy multiple advanced bookings per guest per day. They don't do that though because the composition of the guests (see: attendance mix, unfavorable) has no interest in advanced booking of attractions.

Conversely, Walt Disney World may have a composition of guests that would benefit or prefer guaranteeing 3 advanced bookings a day, but the parks themselves lack the ride capacity.

At some point, something has to give. Fastpass+ further exposed the truth on how shallow WDW's attraction lineup actually was. WDW essentially has stretched out 2 1/2 parks worth of rides into 4 parks. Until such time that Disney adds 3-5 additional attractions to each of EPCOT, DHS and DAK, it makes zero sense to have more than a single advanced reservation for guests.

Realistically, the attractions that could conceivably require Genie+/LL/Fastpass/MaxPass/Fastpass+ for the non-castle parks are as follows:

EPCOT

• Daily need (5): Guardians, Ratatouille, Frozen, Soarin', Test Track
• Occasional need (2): Mission: SPACE, Living with the Land
• Doesn't need but currently has (5): Spaceship Earth, Imagination, Seas with Nemo, Turtle Talk, Pixar Film Festival

DHS

• Daily need (7): Tower of Terror, Rock 'n' Roller Coaster, Runaway Railway, Rise of the Resistance, Toy Story Mania, Slinky Dog Dash, Smugglers Run
• Occasional need (2): Alien Swirling Saucers, Star Tours
• Doesn't need but currently has (6): Beauty and the beast live on stage, Disney Junior, Frozen Sing a long, Indiana Jones, Meet Olaf, Muppet*Vision

DAK

• Daily need (6): Flight of Passage, Na'vi River Journey, Kilimanjaro Safaris, Expedition Everest, DINOSAUR, Mickey and Minnie meet and greet
• Occasional need (1): Kali River Rapids
• Doesn't need but currently has (5): Animation Experience, Feathered Friends in Flight, Festival of the Lion King, Finding Nemo, It's Tough to be a Bug

When Fastpass+ existed in tiers, it's success was largely predicated on deceiving the average guest. Genie+ now has a price point added to it, and that deception still exists. If they revert to something resembling Fastpass+ with a Genie+ level price point, that's the worst scenario of all. You've added a price point to an inferior system and to make your sale (with tiers), you are selling guests on paying for experiences that shouldn't have to be paid for.

This is completely a situation where Disney has created a problem and charged for the solution. It's a great business model.


The reason it changed for the 9th time was that guests didn't want pre-booking and the parks couldn't handle it. Sorry you're not in that group. They actually cited MaxPass in their initial promotional materials for Genie

Disneyland has the attraction capacity in each park to satisfy multiple advanced bookings per guest per day. They don't do that though because the composition of the guests (see: attendance mix, unfavorable) has no interest in advanced booking of attractions.

Conversely, Walt Disney World may have a composition of guests that would benefit or prefer guaranteeing 3 advanced bookings a day, but the parks themselves lack the ride capacity.

At some point, something has to give. Fastpass+ further exposed the truth on how shallow WDW's attraction lineup actually was. WDW essentially has stretched out 2 1/2 parks worth of rides into 4 parks. Until such time that Disney adds 3-5 additional attractions to each of EPCOT, DHS and DAK, it makes zero sense to have more than a single advanced reservation for guests.

Realistically, the attractions that could conceivably require Genie+/LL/Fastpass/MaxPass/Fastpass+ for the non-castle parks are as follows:

EPCOT

• Daily need (5): Guardians, Ratatouille, Frozen, Soarin', Test Track
• Occasional need (2): Mission: SPACE, Living with the Land
• Doesn't need but currently has (5): Spaceship Earth, Imagination, Seas with Nemo, Turtle Talk, Pixar Film Festival

DHS

• Daily need (7): Tower of Terror, Rock 'n' Roller Coaster, Runaway Railway, Rise of the Resistance, Toy Story Mania, Slinky Dog Dash, Smugglers Run
• Occasional need (2): Alien Swirling Saucers, Star Tours
• Doesn't need but currently has (6): Beauty and the beast live on stage, Disney Junior, Frozen Sing a long, Indiana Jones, Meet Olaf, Muppet*Vision

DAK

• Daily need (6): Flight of Passage, Na'vi River Journey, Kilimanjaro Safaris, Expedition Everest, DINOSAUR, Mickey and Minnie meet and greet
• Occasional need (1): Kali River Rapids
• Doesn't need but currently has (5): Animation Experience, Feathered Friends in Flight, Festival of the Lion King, Finding Nemo, It's Tough to be a Bug

When Fastpass+ existed in tiers, it's success was largely predicated on deceiving the average guest. Genie+ now has a price point added to it, and that deception still exists. If they revert to something resembling Fastpass+ with a Genie+ level price point, that's the worst scenario of all. You've added a price point to an inferior system and to make your sale (with tiers), you are selling guests on paying for experiences that shouldn't have to be paid for.

This is completely a situation where Disney has created a problem and charged for the solution. It's a great business model.


The reason it changed for the 9th time was that guests didn't want pre-booking and the parks couldn't handle it. Sorry you're not in that group. They actually cited MaxPass in their initial promotional materials for Genie+.

I hate getting up at 7am every day but what I hate even more is tiers. I hope Disney doesn’t bring them back. I agree they don’t have the capacity. I also think you should only be able to book 1 ride in advance (plus ILLs)

But I think you are wrong in that people didn’t want pre booking. Actually, I know you are 100% wrong. Thats why it’s changing back to some version of an inferior product. Resort guests have always wanted pre booking. And you are obviously not in that group.

 

[TQQQ]

Disneyland has the attraction capacity in each park to satisfy multiple advanced bookings per guest per day. They don't do that though because the composition of the guests (see: attendance mix, unfavorable) has no interest in advanced booking of attractions.

Conversely, Walt Disney World may have a composition of guests that would benefit or prefer guaranteeing 3 advanced bookings a day, but the parks themselves lack the ride capacity.

At some point, something has to give. Fastpass+ further exposed the truth on how shallow WDW's attraction lineup actually was. WDW essentially has stretched out 2 1/2 parks worth of rides into 4 parks. Until such time that Disney adds 3-5 additional attractions to each of EPCOT, DHS and DAK, it makes zero sense to have more than a single advanced reservation for guests.

Realistically, the attractions that could conceivably require Genie+/LL/Fastpass/MaxPass/Fastpass+ for the non-castle parks are as follows:

EPCOT

• Daily need (5): Guardians, Ratatouille, Frozen, Soarin', Test Track
• Occasional need (2): Mission: SPACE, Living with the Land
• Doesn't need but currently has (5): Spaceship Earth, Imagination, Seas with Nemo, Turtle Talk, Pixar Film Festival

DHS

• Daily need (7): Tower of Terror, Rock 'n' Roller Coaster, Runaway Railway, Rise of the Resistance, Toy Story Mania, Slinky Dog Dash, Smugglers Run
• Occasional need (2): Alien Swirling Saucers, Star Tours
• Doesn't need but currently has (6): Beauty and the beast live on stage, Disney Junior, Frozen Sing a long, Indiana Jones, Meet Olaf, Muppet*Vision

DAK

• Daily need (6): Flight of Passage, Na'vi River Journey, Kilimanjaro Safaris, Expedition Everest, DINOSAUR, Mickey and Minnie meet and greet
• Occasional need (1): Kali River Rapids
• Doesn't need but currently has (5): Animation Experience, Feathered Friends in Flight, Festival of the Lion King, Finding Nemo, It's Tough to be a Bug

When Fastpass+ existed in tiers, it's success was largely predicated on deceiving the average guest. Genie+ now has a price point added to it, and that deception still exists. If they revert to something resembling Fastpass+ with a Genie+ level price point, that's the worst scenario of all. You've added a price point to an inferior system and to make your sale (with tiers), you are selling guests on paying for experiences that shouldn't have to be paid for.

This is completely a situation where Disney has created a problem and charged for the solution. It's a great business model.


The reason it changed for the 9th time was that guests didn't want pre-booking and the parks couldn't handle it. Sorry you're not in that group. They actually cited MaxPass in their initial promotional materials for Genie+.

I actually think Disney is playing with fire.

Genie+ has been their cash cow and they’ve referred to higher pp guest spend as one of their biggest successes.

They risk a good portion of those sales by limiting the value you get if they bring back tiers. I know I won’t pay for it if they do (unless tiers are for pre booking only, they keep the 120 minute rule and you can book another ride before using the ones you pre booked). But this brings back the lack of capacity. They will screw over a ton of guests, even resort guests.

I think this is going to be a huge mess and that the new version about to be released won’t last 12 months if it does have tiers

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

I actually think Disney is playing with fire.

Genie+ has been their cash cow and they’ve referred to higher pp guest spend as one of their biggest successes.

They risk a good portion of those sales by limiting the value you get if they bring back tiers. I know I won’t pay for it if they do (unless tiers are for pre booking only, they keep the 120 minute rule and you can book another ride before using the ones you pre booked). But this brings back the lack of capacity. They will screw over a ton of guests, even resort guests.

I think this is going to be a huge mess and that the new version about to be released won’t last 12 months if it does have tiers

They don’t care if you will buy it, because everyone else will. To the average guest, Disney would be completely awful without some form of a line skip system. Nobody wants to wait 2 hours per attraction.

 

[TQQQ]

They don’t care if you will buy it, because everyone else will. To the average guest, Disney would be completely awful without some form of a line skip system. Nobody wants to wait 2 hours per attraction.

No way Jose. You think people will pay $39 for FP+ which doesnt even include the top ride or 2 at each park b those are ILLs? People aren’t that dumb.

And I will bet you anything you want that genie+ sales will suffer and they will change it in less than 12 months if they do it that way.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

No way Jose. You think people will pay $39 for FP+ which doesnt even include the top ride or 2 at each park b those are ILLs? People aren’t that dumb.

And I will bet you anything you want that genie+ sales will suffer and they will change it in less than 12 months if they do it that way.

People are already paying that. It sold out multiple times over Christmas week, in multiple parks.

 

[TQQQ]

People are already paying that. It sold out multiple times over Christmas week, in multiple parks.

? Seriously? Have you been reading the posts?

We are talking if there are tiers, 3 rides and limited to booking ur 4th only after you use the first 3, like FP+ was.

Nobody will pay for that.

And that doesn’t even include the top rides like FP+ had b they are now ILLs.

No chance. No way.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

? Seriously? Have you been reading the posts?

We are talking if there are tiers, 3 rides and limited to booking ur 4th only after you use the first 3, like FP+ was.

Nobody will pay for that.

And that doesn’t even include the top rides like FP+ had b they are now ILLs.

No chance. No way.

People will pay for it. They won’t have a choice. GSAT scores will continue to tank, but people will absolutely pay.

 

[TQQQ]

People will pay for it. They won’t have a choice. GSAT scores will continue to tank, but people will absolutely pay.

Ha. You are delusional. You know this will be genie+ 10th amendment since it was implemented less than 2 years ago? There is no way in hell people will pay for it.

I’ll bet you anything you want. I am that confident.

Disney is making money hand over fist as currently constituted and they are changing it b guest satisfaction stinks. Wait until guest satisfaction AND sales go down. The NBA experience will have had a longer shelf life.

 

[RSoxNo1]

? Seriously? Have you been reading the posts?

We are talking if there are tiers, 3 rides and limited to booking ur 4th only after you use the first 3, like FP+ was.

Nobody will pay for that.

And that doesn’t even include the top rides like FP+ had b they are now ILLs.

No chance. No way.

The problem is, that's the current rumor. It's further complicating the system.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Ha. You are delusional. You know this will be genie+ 10th amendment since it was implemented less than 2 years ago? There is no way in hell people will pay for it.

I’ll bet you anything you want. I am that confident.

Disney is making money hand over fist as currently constituted and they are changing it b guest satisfaction stinks. Wait until guest satisfaction AND sales go down. The NBA experience will have had a longer shelf life.

They haven’t changed genie 10 times because people aren’t buying it. It frequently sells out now and one of the 10 changes they made was to limit sales! They are changing it because of gsat scores. It’s going to continue to sell out basically no matter what they do because they’ve made it a necessity.

 

[TQQQ]

They haven’t changed genie 10 times because people aren’t buying it. It frequently sells out now and one of the 10 changes they made was to limit sales! They are changing it because of gsat scores. It’s going to continue to sell out basically no matter what they do because they’ve made it a necessity.

Yes. Thats my point. Then we agree. I’m saying gsat scores will go lower along w sales if they implement a system of tiers so everyone loses

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Yes. Thats my point. Then we agree. I’m saying gsat scores will go lower along w sales if they implement a system of tiers so everyone loses

No, we don’t agree. Sales will not go lower. People will still buy it and it will still sell out frequently, because it’s a necessity.

 

[TQQQ]

No, we don’t agree. Sales will not go lower. People will still buy it and it will still sell out frequently, because it’s a necessity.

Ok then we definitely disagree. I’ll bet you anything you want they will go lower if they implement basically paid FP+ (without the top ride or 2 in each park).

Thats a no brainer.

WDW is not immune from guests spending less. Guests will see less value in the whole vacation and go somewhere else, fewer nights or less frequently. It does happen

 

[nickys]

Ok then we definitely disagree. I’ll bet you anything you want they will go lower if they implement basically paid FP+ (without the top ride or 2 in each park).

Thats a no brainer.

WDW is not immune from guests spending less. Guests will see less value in the whole vacation and go somewhere else, fewer nights or less frequently. It does happen

Sales might fall. But you said earlier that “no one will buy it”.

So which do you think will happen?

 

[TQQQ]

Sales might fall. But you said earlier that “no one will buy it”.

So which do you think will happen?

Yes

 

[TQQQ]

Sales might fall. But you said earlier that “no one will buy it”.

So which do you think will happen?

Will you buy it if it is basically paid FP+ without the ILL rides for $39pp?

is SDD, TSMM and ST worth $39?

 

[nickys]

Will you buy it if it is basically paid FP+ without the ILL rides for $39pp?

I would for some days. If I have to buy it for length of stay …… honestly, I probably would.

It was 6 years between our last 2 trips. And although I hope we return after 3 years or so, it might be our last visit. So I’d probably pay it, yes.

 

[nickys]

Yes

Eh? That doesn’t answer the question.