Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[JD80]

See, but that leaves out that by stacking and coming later I get less uses and impact the system less than someone there all day who is grabbing a new one each time they scan into a ride. We both paid the same yet one person could ride every ride in MK while someone who stacks and rolls in after lunch will get 6-8 rides using the same system.

That two hour wait really limits stacking.

This whole conversation is funny because we're all ALMOST talking past each other because the basis of each others argument is slightly off when discussing changes to the system. We don't have a base line "new" g+ to talk around.

Starting from scratch - if I were making a paid line skipping feature for WDW I would essentially make every ride a Individual Lightning Lane that you can buy an unlimited number of. The price of the attraction starts off as a baseline number (variable based on the crowd level like G+ does now) at park open and gets cheaper over time if people aren't buying it, so demand rates it.

So the LL for Pirates starts off at $10 at 9AM. Then if no one is buying it, or not enough people are buying it then it ticks down so by 10AM it's $8 and by 11AM it's $6. Then if people start buying it, it goes up again.

Essentially you're using market pressure to adjust the cost of the ride based on demand of the LL and the demand of the ride. If the ride has a short standby wait time, you are putting downward pressure on the price of the LL because it holds no value because you are willing to wait X minutes instead of spending $X. But as standby wait times rise, then the value prop of the $LL gets better because of time vs money so the cost steadily increases.

That's how I'd do it anyway.

 

[Jrb1979]

but I am not using up the system any more than someone who gets one and uses it - if anything I am using the system less than people who don't stack and can get their next one as I can't book another one more frequently than every 2 hours vs someone who books sooner from using one. Even if I modify it to later that frees up a spot coming sooner for someone in the park to get


no system is going to be optimal for every guest. I think the biggest issue with the current system is the having to book at 7am and not knowing what you are going to get, so all the "day of" stress. I think that is what needs to be addressed more than anything

A big fix would be getting less people to buy it.

To be honest there has to be a middle ground for those who like to plan and those who like the system as is.

My idea is you can book your first LL each day 1 week before your trip but you can't pick your return times. All that's changing is getting rid of the 7am day of for those who like to spreadsheet plan each day.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

This whole conversation is funny because we're all ALMOST talking past each other because the basis of each others argument is slightly off when discussing changes to the system. We don't have a base line "new" g+ to talk around.

Starting from scratch - if I were making a paid line skipping feature for WDW I would essentially make every ride a Individual Lightning Lane that you can buy an unlimited number of. The price of the attraction starts off as a baseline number (variable based on the crowd level like G+ does now) at park open and gets cheaper over time if people aren't buying it, so demand rates it.

So the LL for Pirates starts off at $10 at 9AM. Then if no one is buying it, or not enough people are buying it then it ticks down so by 10AM it's $8 and by 11AM it's $6. Then if people start buying it, it goes up again.

Essentially you're using market pressure to adjust the cost of the ride based on demand of the LL and the demand of the ride. If the ride has a short standby wait time, you are putting downward pressure on the price of the LL because it holds no value because you are willing to wait X minutes instead of spending $X. But as standby wait times rise, then the value prop of the $LL gets better because of time vs money so the cost steadily increases.

That's how I'd do it anyway.

I would do just ILL but only for the major rides - like maybe 10-12 across all 4 parks combines

Then let the rides that don't need it and are quick loaders/high throughout just eat up standby crowds. So HM, Pirates, SSE, etc have such efficiency they don't need it

Plus I think *most* families can probably swing paying for 1 or 2 rides they prioritize

 

[Jrb1979]

I would do just ILL but only for the major rides - like maybe 10-12 across all 4 parks combines

Then let the rides that don't need it and are quick loaders/high throughout just eat up standby crowds. So HM, Pirates, SSE, etc have such efficiency they don't need it

Plus I think *most* families can probably swing paying for 1 or 2 rides they prioritize

That would be the best solution but it will never happen as Disney loves the money Genie+ brings in. It helps make guest spending higher each quarter.

I will add that all this talk about making Genie+ better makes me realize what I hate the most about visiting the parks. It's the amount of planning involved. It shouldn't be this much work everyday of vacation to enjoy a park.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

A big fix would be getting less people to buy it.

To be honest there has to be a middle ground for those who like to plan and those who like the system as is.

My idea is you can book your first LL each day 1 week before your trip but you can't pick your return times. All that's changing is getting rid of the 7am day of for those who like to spreadsheet plan each day.

Assuming keeping the bulk of G+, that is roughly what I would do. Though maybe 15 days out and let onsite book for duration of trip vs off-site only for individual days at a time - like how ADRs are.

This way just skip the 7am element and at least have 1 ride set for the day to start off the plan for the day

 

[Jrb1979]

Assuming keeping the bulk of G+, that is roughly what I would do. Though maybe 15 days out and let onsite book for duration of trip vs off-site only for individual days at a time - like how ADRs are.

This way just skip the 7am element and at least have 1 ride set for the day to start off the plan for the day

I wish they would get rid of return times altogether.

 

[Thepuma]

Depends on if you start stacking earlier in the day and/or plan to park hop to a later closing park

But currently, if you get your first G+ for say midday, as that's when you want to get into the park, your second one you can get after 2 hours...and by 11am, I would think any decent ride is going to be way into the afternoon by then. And doesn't it mean you cannot book your third until you've used your currently booked G+....so not able to get your third till the afternoon 2nd G+....by which time your probably only getting an evening G+.

I suppose it depends when you go and how busy the park is I suppose

 

[aladdin2007]

I wish they would get rid of return times altogether.

Wish they would get rid of the rotten system all together, it's as bad as changing gas prices.

 

[ChrisM]

This whole conversation is funny because we're all ALMOST talking past each other because the basis of each others argument is slightly off when discussing changes to the system. We don't have a base line "new" g+ to talk around.

Starting from scratch - if I were making a paid line skipping feature for WDW I would essentially make every ride a Individual Lightning Lane that you can buy an unlimited number of. The price of the attraction starts off as a baseline number (variable based on the crowd level like G+ does now) at park open and gets cheaper over time if people aren't buying it, so demand rates it.

So the LL for Pirates starts off at $10 at 9AM. Then if no one is buying it, or not enough people are buying it then it ticks down so by 10AM it's $8 and by 11AM it's $6. Then if people start buying it, it goes up again.

Essentially you're using market pressure to adjust the cost of the ride based on demand of the LL and the demand of the ride. If the ride has a short standby wait time, you are putting downward pressure on the price of the LL because it holds no value because you are willing to wait X minutes instead of spending $X. But as standby wait times rise, then the value prop of the $LL gets better because of time vs money so the cost steadily increases.

That's how I'd do it anyway.

Yes. Exactly this.

Immediate entry ILL with variable, demand based pricing for all attractions. Clear, concise, and far simpler than any other ridiculous permutation they keep attempting.

Just pull the band-aid already.

 

[drizgirl]

This whole conversation is funny because we're all ALMOST talking past each other because the basis of each others argument is slightly off when discussing changes to the system. We don't have a base line "new" g+ to talk around.

Starting from scratch - if I were making a paid line skipping feature for WDW I would essentially make every ride a Individual Lightning Lane that you can buy an unlimited number of. The price of the attraction starts off as a baseline number (variable based on the crowd level like G+ does now) at park open and gets cheaper over time if people aren't buying it, so demand rates it.

So the LL for Pirates starts off at $10 at 9AM. Then if no one is buying it, or not enough people are buying it then it ticks down so by 10AM it's $8 and by 11AM it's $6. Then if people start buying it, it goes up again.

Essentially you're using market pressure to adjust the cost of the ride based on demand of the LL and the demand of the ride. If the ride has a short standby wait time, you are putting downward pressure on the price of the LL because it holds no value because you are willing to wait X minutes instead of spending $X. But as standby wait times rise, then the value prop of the $LL gets better because of time vs money so the cost steadily increases.

That's how I'd do it anyway.

Sounds awful. I wouldn't visit the parks like this at all. Would feel so much more like they were looking me over trying to see what they could get me for that day. And no way to budget for what it might end up costing. YUCK.

 

[Dranth]

Yes. Exactly this.

Immediate entry ILL with variable, demand based pricing for all attractions. Clear, concise, and far simpler than any other ridiculous permutation they keep attempting.

Just pull the band-aid already.

Well, if we just want simple, switch to a Universal like system or drop it altogether. I have a feeling if they did that people would be even more upset then they are now but those are the simplest of all options.

 

[Splash4eva]

Yes. Exactly this.

Immediate entry ILL with variable, demand based pricing for all attractions. Clear, concise, and far simpler than any other ridiculous permutation they keep attempting.

Just pull the band-aid already.

You want to now do variable pricing per ride & complicate this even more…. Im sure that will work out great when they check a price while riding BTM head over to Space to see the price jacked up lol. That would be a disaster imo…

I truly dont know why they dont go back to how FP was and call it a day. Include everything and charge accordingly.

 

[JD80]

You want to now do variable pricing per ride & complicate this even more…. Im sure that will work out great when they check a price while riding BTM head over to Space to see the price jacked up lol. That would be a disaster imo…

I truly dont know why they dont go back to how FP was and call it a day. Include everything and charge accordingly.

It's not complicated at all. You can pull up the app, see what LL's cost or just do standby. No 7AM wakeups, no 2 hour rules, no limited 1 per day rider. No strategies of stacking/modifying whatever.

If physical LL line is too long, you stop selling them.

I doubt Disney IT could make it work though. Just a thought experiment.

 

[Splash4eva]

It's not complicated at all. You can pull up the app, see what LL's cost or just do standby. No 7AM wakeups, no 2 hour rules, no limited 1 per day rider. No strategies of stacking/modifying whatever.

If physical LL line is too long, you stop selling them.

I doubt Disney IT could make it work though. Just a thought experiment.

What im saying is. If im at 1 place in park and see a price and walk to said ride and its now higher bc of demand you now have more ticked off customers… we are talking about how its basically ridiculous that Genie prices change daily. Can you imagine individual rides changing on an hourly basis?!?

 

[JD80]

What im saying is. If im at 1 place in park and see a price and walk to said ride and its now higher bc of demand you now have more ticked off customers… we are talking about how its basically ridiculous that Genie prices change daily. Can you imagine individual rides changing on an hourly basis?!?

In this imaginary world where this was actually put in to place, none of this would happen. In your scenario, you see a price that you find worth while, you buy it and you have an hour to use it. Or whatever amount of time. A system like this wouldn't be changing on the fly minute by minute anyway.

Something like this happen now in a few different ways anyway. You look at the app and see a lower wait time and get tempted to walk across the park only to get there and the actual wait time is longer or the posted wait time changes. Or you're looking at the app to book G+/ILL and the wait time is wrong, or you see a good time, get distracted, and come back and it's gone.

You can't make these things perfect in a micro sense.

 

[Splash4eva]

In this imaginary world where this was actually put in to place, none of this would happen. In your scenario, you see a price that you find worth while, you buy it and you have an hour to use it. Or whatever amount of time. A system like this wouldn't be changing on the fly minute by minute anyway.

Something like this happen now in a few different ways anyway. You look at the app and see a lower wait time and get tempted to walk across the park only to get there and the actual wait time is longer or the posted wait time changes. Or you're looking at the app to book G+/ILL and the wait time is wrong, or you see a good time, get distracted, and come back and it's gone.

You can't make these things perfect in a micro sense.

Your last statement sums it all up. There is no perfect system with the current capacity they have. They can try everything they want not going to matter

 

[RSoxNo1]

View attachment 728509

Not sure if this has been shared here yet but apparently a survey going around.

Dear morons,

You've spent how many millions(billions) to devise a system that will be just as bad as FASTPASS+? The goal is to reduce the complexity and you're failing at every step of the way. Park operations are a total train wreck at this point.

Get your [stuff] together.

Love,
Tim

 

[Jrb1979]

Dear morons,

You've spent how many millions(billions) to devise a system that will be just as bad as FASTPASS+? The goal is to reduce the complexity and you're failing at every step of the way. Park operations are a total train wreck at this point.

Get your [stuff] together.

Love,
Tim

Blame the lack of capacity

 

[RSoxNo1]

The biggest thing for Disney to do is get rid of all the 7AM decision making.

• Go back to being able to pre-add G+ to your package.
• Allow booking that 7AM LL before your check in date - I don't care when
• Allow a pre-purchase of all ILLs before you check in date - make them like any other ADR

Everything else happens after you actually enter the parks.

If anything, split the day in half like VQs (7AM, 1PM drops) so that you can't book LL/ILL return times until the clock strikes whatever hour you chose.

Pushing it out 7 days just moves the decision making to 7 AM, 7 days out. That's dumb. Here is my proposal:

• One advanced booking with only a small percentage of attraction capacity devoted to advanced booking (50% or less)
• Day of booking for everything else that becomes available upon checking into a park. The advanced booking is independent of the day of bookings.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Blame the lack of capacity

Perhaps if they re-allocated all the unnecessary spending on messing up Park Ops on new rides they wouldn't have this problem.