Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[Thepuma]

My way was prebook and can book your second 1hr after your park entrance. Then you know where you can start your day and have some sort of a plan. Either way your idea and mine hurts those that enter the park later and stack which is why it wouldn’t surprise me if they just go back to the FP+ model. We’ll see

Yeah, but having said that..if you aren't getting into a park till 11/midday, your use of Genie is going to be extremely limited.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Yeah, but having said that..if you aren't getting into a park till 11/midday, your use of Genie is going to be extremely limited.

Depends on if you start stacking earlier in the day and/or plan to park hop to a later closing park

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Yeah, but having said that..if you aren't getting into a park till 11/midday, your use of Genie is going to be extremely limited.

Yeah, and to me one of the reasons to buy G+ is to "buy back" being able to sleep in while on vacation. Already a benefit to those that rope drop and this would sort of double up that benefit but also people who are already big rope droppers might not feel need for G+ since they already get to hit a few rides with low waits so I think any plan that sort of requires getting there early will have lower take up

 

[GhostHost1000]

I think for me, I was just trying to make things simple...no times, no getting up at different times no having people stack 2 or 3....no people booking G+ in their bedrooms then not making it etc etc.

A simple 1 at a time reservation once youre in the park for a fee. This would then appease the Resort guests as they get in early.

But yeah, it's amazing how forum goers can come up with good ideas but the bigwigs at Disney who get paid millions keep coming up with horrible ideas.

If you want simple, $50 per day per person. All LL and ILL included. No booking anything. That won’t happen though

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Depends on if you start stacking earlier in the day and/or plan to park hop to a later closing park

Right but any plans that requires you to enter the park before being able to use it reduce stacking benefit and sort of necessitates getting there early to get good use out of it

 

[GhostHost1000]

Right but any plans that requires you to enter the park before being able to use it reduce stacking benefit and sort of necessitates getting there early to get good use out of it

That would limit purchasing likely and while it would have more value to some guests, won’t give Disney the most money in their pockets

 

[TheMaxRebo]

If you want simple, $50 per day per person. All LL and ILL included. No booking anything. That won’t happen though

I think issue with that is too many people would buy it at $50. Would have to be $100 or more (especially at MK)

Either that or cap the sales and give onsite guests early access or something

Otherwise if 40-50% of people buy that then the LL lines get just as long as standby

 

[Dranth]

Explain why it won't work.

They won't be booking on their way in the car as they won't be able to book until they've scanned into the park.

People are on their phones constantly anyway..be it 7am...park open..during the day. Its no different to now really.

One of the problems is you are catering to a small subset of quests. Parks are generally most crowded mid morning to early afternoon because most people don’t like getting up that early on vacation. The people taking advantage of rope dropping are already getting an advantage and they should, no need to add to that and punish people who can’t or don’t want to be there that early.

 

[JD80]

But the early entry folks will be in the park or even on an attraction rushing to book their first main LL. No ideal

So? Everyone is doing that at Park Open + 2 hours right now.

 

[GhostHost1000]

So? Everyone is doing that at Park Open + 2 hours right now.

No everyone is doing it at 7am. The only park I know that opens near that time on occasion is AK for resort guests.

Another thing I don’t think may be thought about is I am used to always eating breakfast at my resort before heading to the parks. Now with some opening earlier, some food places aren’t even open at the resorts before you need to catch the bus. I wish times went back to 9 for all and 830 for resort guests or something but I’m sure there’s a reason they changed it up

 

[JD80]

There is still the secondary rope drop for offsite. Or else people already in have to time up to night be on a ride for when the park opens so they can be in their phones, etc

Still think not optimal ... Plus for folks that want to sleep in on their vacation there becomes decreased value for spending extra on G+ and those that do rope drop get the double benefit

Like I just replied to @GhostHost1000 , park open + 2 hours is still a spot where EVERYONE is booking their first in park LL together. This whole "unsafe on your phone" or "i'm on a ride' is behavior that is happening right now anyway. Any change is just shifting this moment elsewhere.

To the people sleeping in - I don't think you can use that "decreased value" argument because it's a choice they are making by sleeping in. They are choosing to not use their park ticket from open to close already so their park ticket is already has "decreased value". So that is a value proposition that is up to the customer.

When we get afternoon half day park tickets, maybe they can come with half day G+ addons. lol

 

[JD80]

The problem for Disney in buying Genie when you book your package is they lose out on money as you can almost guarantee with these variable pricing it will cost more day of vs me paying now for my entire trip…

Park tickets both have daily variable pricing and vary depending on the park and I can book them a year out. I'm sure they can figure it out with G+.

 

[JD80]

I think you’re missing the point as to why people don’t like the 7am booking. The day of stress of know what you may or may not be able to do and how to plan anything at all. Go back to prebooking and it helps that.

No I get it, I would prefer prebook 3 rides like FP+. My whole statement is just what is the minimum Disney could do to make it better not what would optimally make it better from my point of view.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Like I just replied to @GhostHost1000 , park open + 2 hours is still a spot where EVERYONE is booking their first in park LL together. This whole "unsafe on your phone" or "i'm on a ride' is behavior that is happening right now anyway. Any change is just shifting this moment elsewhere.

To the people sleeping in - I don't think you can use that "decreased value" argument because it's a choice they are making by sleeping in. They are choosing to not use their park ticket from open to close already so their park ticket is already has "decreased value". So that is a value proposition that is up to the customer.

When we get afternoon half day park tickets, maybe they can come with half day G+ addons. lol

But right now I am motivated to buy G+ if I sleep in as I know I can stack and still get use out of it

Under a plan that requires me to be in the park for first use I am less likely to buy it on those days ... And just reduces the flexibility a lot

So basically only benefits a subset of guests who already get a benefit from rope dropping - so folks who don't want to do that while on vacation will feel even more left out

 

[JD80]

No everyone is doing it at 7am. The only park I know that opens near that time on occasion is AK for resort guests.

Another thing I don’t think may be thought about is I am used to always eating breakfast at my resort before heading to the parks. Now with some opening earlier, some food places aren’t even open at the resorts before you need to catch the bus. I wish times went back to 9 for all and 830 for resort guests or something but I’m sure there’s a reason they changed it up

We are discussing times you think it's unsafe because everyone is on their phones booking a LL right? You stipulate that it would be unsafe to do at "Park Open" at 9AM when everyone is at the park already. I'm stipulating that it's being done already because at 11AM people are booking their second on already unless you used one already.

(Which is a G+ strat assuming a busy park day, you're putting yourself out of the same 2 hour window cycle with everyone else)

All I'm saying is that your fear of a "crowded area, people get hurt on their phones" is exaggerated.

 

[JD80]

But right now I am motivated to buy G+ if I sleep in as I know I can stack and still get use out of it

Under a plan that requires me to be in the park for first use I am less likely to buy it on those days ... And just reduces the flexibility a lot

So basically only benefits a subset of guests who already get a benefit from rope dropping - so folks who don't want to do that while on vacation will feel even more left out

I get it.

But I'll play devils advocate and say that I'm at the park using this service and you are sitting down somewhere else clogging up the system, especially if you're booking LLs and just walking them back to later times by modifying them.

 

[GhostHost1000]

But right now I am motivated to buy G+ if I sleep in as I know I can stack and still get use out of it

Under a plan that requires me to be in the park for first use I am less likely to buy it on those days ... And just reduces the flexibility a lot

So basically only benefits a subset of guests who already get a benefit from rope dropping - so folks who don't want to do that while on vacation will feel even more left out

the difficult with stacking throughout the day is having to keep checking the app and modifying to get the times you want right? I wish they would enable time selections again

 

[Dranth]

I get it.

But I'll play devils advocate and say that I'm at the park using this service and you are sitting down somewhere else clogging up the system, especially if you're booking LLs and just walking them back to later times by modifying them.

See, but that leaves out that by stacking and coming later I get less uses and impact the system less than someone there all day who is grabbing a new one each time they scan into a ride. We both paid the same yet one person could ride every ride in MK while someone who stacks and rolls in after lunch will get 6-8 rides using the same system.

That two hour wait really limits stacking.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I get it.

But I'll play devils advocate and say that I'm at the park using this service and you are sitting down somewhere else clogging up the system, especially if you're booking LLs and just walking them back to later times by modifying them.

but I am not using up the system any more than someone who gets one and uses it - if anything I am using the system less than people who don't stack and can get their next one as I can't book another one more frequently than every 2 hours vs someone who books sooner from using one. Even if I modify it to later that frees up a spot coming sooner for someone in the park to get


no system is going to be optimal for every guest. I think the biggest issue with the current system is the having to book at 7am and not knowing what you are going to get, so all the "day of" stress. I think that is what needs to be addressed more than anything

 

[JD80]

See, but that leaves out that by stacking and coming later I get less uses and impact the system less than someone there all day who is grabbing a new one each time they scan into a ride. We both paid the same yet one person could ride every ride in MK while someone who stacks and rolls in after lunch will get 6-8 rides using the same system.

That two hour wait really limits stacking.

This whole conversation is funny because we're all ALMOST talking past each other because the basis of each others argument is slightly off when discussing changes to the system. We don't have a base line "new" g+ to talk around.

Starting from scratch - if I were making a paid line skipping feature for WDW I would essentially make every ride a Individual Lightning Lane that you can buy an unlimited number of. The price of the attraction starts off as a baseline number (variable based on the crowd level like G+ does now) at park open and gets cheaper over time if people aren't buying it, so demand rates it.

So the LL for Pirates starts off at $10 at 9AM. Then if no one is buying it, or not enough people are buying it then it ticks down so by 10AM it's $8 and by 11AM it's $6. Then if people start buying it, it goes up again.

Essentially you're using market pressure to adjust the cost of the ride based on demand of the LL and the demand of the ride. If the ride has a short standby wait time, you are putting downward pressure on the price of the LL because it holds no value because you are willing to wait X minutes instead of spending $X. But as standby wait times rise, then the value prop of the $LL gets better because of time vs money so the cost steadily increases.

That's how I'd do it anyway.