Let's just close WDW since they just can't do anything right anyway

[AEfx]

On a different note, I will take some of AEfx's advice an attempt to softly educate those they may need some assistance is learning the ways of the industry.

How very diplomatic of you.

I guess my point in posting in this thread really was that I could tell the original post was written out of frustration, and I just felt it was the wrong way to go about making the desired change in attitude. The pot boiled over for Speck and he felt the need to pull a rant from a thread and put it into another one.

That said, there are two issues here - one, the unrealistic expectations, and two, the way some people view the recent changes at WDW as less than stellar. I'm sometimes in the latter category, but I can always recognize the "good" stuff as well. I think this thread is confusing those two issues, because I think what may be interpreted as "not enough money" is really "not as much magic". I tell you - E tickets are nice and all, but I'd be happy if they filled that space over at 20K with a Sleeping Beauty dark ride with no better technology than in Snow White - because it would be magical. And to many of us, some of those recent additions have lacked the magic we've come to expect. Magic doesn't always equal money.

There is also a lot of exaggeration in this thread in regards to people's expectations - it's not THAT bad (I'm all for embelishment, but if you believed everything Speck said in this thread you'd think the signal:noise ratio around here was as bad as DIS...). It is highly annoying sometimes, but the best way to prevent it is to address it at the time, i.e. "That's not realistic because in terms of park economics...", not waiting until it's such a percieved issue that you just start ranting at no one in particular, because, again - they won't even know it's directed at them.

AEfx

 

[niteobsrvr]

WOW

I wonder if my contribution is going to count as my 15 mins of fame?

Thanks to Speck for giving my original post a place of its own.

I often find myself personally torn between siding with the corporate decisions or choosing to long for more creative decisions. However as a 1991 graduate of the Fisher College of Business at Ohio State (Glad to see I have a fellow Alumus here), I understand that you cant do everything based on magic all of time nor can you do everything based on profit. Even the team of Walt and Roy knew this as Walt himself referred to Disneyland as an entertainment buisness. He just wasn't real good at that part of it and thats where Roy came in to play.

Finally, thanks to all for carrying on a discussion that emphasises that fact that Disney does manage to do a whole lot of things right.

 

[speck76]

Then do something about it.

Educate people without calling them ignorant. Lighten the tone. Contribute positively.

Writing a thread just to complain about complainers is just...silly.

AEfx

Take a few minutes from building your own ego (something that you have said I am doing, although if you actually knew me, you would come quickly to the conclusion that this is not the type of person that I am) and read some of the many threads that I have started, along with the many posts that I have made.

My posts have always been to educate, but as I try to eduacate some about how "every company needs to actually make a profit, that is one of many important metrics used by Wall Street, or how cut backs were needed the last few years due to the lack of demand........you get the picture" I get called nasty names, get told that I have no idea what I am talking about (sorry, but I am in the business, and know a bit more about the Orlando Travel Industry than the average 16 year old from BFE).....some people here are blinded by their passion, others just have a very false sense of what this industry is all about.

AS ofr complaining about complainers, what exactly are you doing now.......you have numerous posts about the same thing, complaining about me and this thread, something that you seem to view as complaining itself.......hmmmmm.

 

[DMC-12]

Take a few minutes from building your own ego (something that you have said I am doing, although if you actually knew me, you would come quickly to the conclusion that this is not the type of person that I am)

I can and will vouch for speck... we have hung out at the parks and have had a few drinks in the MK resorts quite a few times.

He's a good guy... no ego at all. Just down to earth.. and realistic. :wave: :xmas:

 

[speck76]

1I tell you - E tickets are nice and all, but I'd be happy if they filled that space over at 20K with a Sleeping Beauty dark ride with no better technology than in Snow White - because it would be magical. And to many of us, some of those recent additions have lacked the magic we've come to expect. Magic doesn't always equal money
AEfx

How many threads have their been about the replacement to 20K? How many posts have been something along the lines of "I can't believe that they are replaceing 20K with a Winnie the Pooh meet and Greet.....they need to build an E-Ticket NOW"?

Quite a number.

If you were to look at it reasonably, which is all that I am asking, you would see the following:

1. 20K has been closed for 10 years, just because they are ripping it out, does not mean that they are going to rebuild something there right away. We are not losing an attraction, we lost an attraction 10 years ago.

2. 20K occupied a HUGE piece of land, much more than the world's largest meet and greet could ever occupy.

3. The MK has just added Wishes and Philharmagic, and has just invested into SGE, and in 2005, the MK is opening Cinderellabration, they really are not in need of a new attraction right now.

4. The MK's attendance is the most consisitant of the 4 parks, most visitors go to the MK and 1 or 2 other parks, the other parks could use the capital investment more than the MK needs it.

5. The MK is not, on a consistant basis, reaching capacity, therefore, extra ride capacity is not currently needed. New attractions are only needed to market and generate demand, but that was already done by point number 3.


These are all points I have made in other threads, but still, people don't get it. I guess it really does not matter if people get it or not.....it does not matter to me at least, I am still going to enjoy myself on my weekly visits, but it would be nice if people could stop for a moment and think.

 

[AEfx]

Take a few minutes from building your own ego (something that you have said I am doing, although if you actually knew me, you would come quickly to the conclusion that this is not the type of person that I am) and read some of the many threads that I have started, along with the many posts that I have made.

I'm not sure what I've done in your eyes to promote my ego, I'm not in here calling people ignorant or claiming I have some superior knowlegde of anything. Just trying to share another point of view as I've observed these same patterns in other message boards between people on the "inside" and those on the "outside".

I am familiar with your postings, which is why I found this one so peculiar. I just am not sure why you felt the need to lash out so.

My posts have always been to educate, but as I try to eduacate some about how "every company needs to actually make a profit, that is one of many important metrics used by Wall Street, or how cut backs were needed the last few years due to the lack of demand........you get the picture" I get called nasty names, get told that I have no idea what I am talking about (sorry, but I am in the business, and know a bit more about the Orlando Travel Industry than the average 16 year old from BFE).....some people here are blinded by their passion, others just have a very false sense of what this industry is all about.

And the way to get that out is to have rational discussions, not just wait until you blow your top as you have here and just make a random thread ranting about people who aren't going to realize you are talking about them. Re-read what you wrote above - yes, I'm sure you feel justified in your anger, but your reaction to it is just not productive.

AS ofr complaining about complainers, what exactly are you doing now.......you have numerous posts about the same thing, complaining about me and this thread, something that you seem to view as complaining itself.......hmmmmm.

/sigh

Had to try to turn it around on someone else because you are afraid of the real point here?

Take a day or so, clear your head, and re-read what you have written, and tell me you haven't exagerated or written out of anger/frustration. I don't think you will be able to.

You need to understand that while you work in the themepark industry, the majority of people who come to this site do not, and when you throw terms like "ignorant" at them, and make these non-specific, yet highly exagerated claims (no one ever said they expect 8 E-tickets a year - I know you didn't mean it, but you said it, it's just that everything you have written here has been hyperbole) you are just going to either a) PO the people you are trying to reach, or b) not reach them at all because they don't understand what the heck you are talking about in the first place.

Just chill out, and when people make these claims you feel are outrageous, when you feel the need to help do so constructively. Explain, in context, at the time, what the problem is. Or ignore it. But creating a brand new thread just because you got angry isn't going to solve your problem.

Now, if I go and start a new thread called "We Might As All Stop Going To WDW because the Employees Think We're Annoying and Ignorant", then you can use the "you did it too!" defense.

Instead of making a generic "AHHHHHHHH!" post as this was, and reposting it in a new thread for emphasis, no less, address the issue at the time. If you can't...let it go. You can't save the world, you can't educate everyone. It's a nice goal, but sometimes one just gets away.

AEfx

 

[AEfx]

How many threads have their been about the replacement to 20K? How many posts have been something along the lines of "I can't believe that they are replaceing 20K with a Winnie the Pooh meet and Greet.....they need to build an E-Ticket NOW"?

Quite a number.

If you were to look at it reasonably, which is all that I am asking, you would see the following:

1. 20K has been closed for 10 years, just because they are ripping it out, does not mean that they are going to rebuild something there right away. We are not losing an attraction, we lost an attraction 10 years ago.

2. 20K occupied a HUGE piece of land, much more than the world's largest meet and greet could ever occupy.

3. The MK has just added Wishes and Philharmagic, and has just invested into SGE, and in 2005, the MK is opening Cinderellabration, they really are not in need of a new attraction right now.

4. The MK's attendance is the most consisitant of the 4 parks, most visitors go to the MK and 1 or 2 other parks, the other parks could use the capital investment more than the MK needs it.

5. The MK is not, on a consistant basis, reaching capacity, therefore, extra ride capacity is not currently needed. New attractions are only needed to market and generate demand, but that was already done by point number 3.


These are all points I have made in other threads, but still, people don't get it. I guess it really does not matter if people get it or not.....it does not matter to me at least, I am still going to enjoy myself on my weekly visits, but it would be nice if people could stop for a moment and think.

Well, obviously it matters to you, Speck. Or why would you have just typed that?

I just used 20K as an example. I have said before that I belive eventually it should be the home of an E-ticket, but it's not a requirement. I just want something to experience. I don't do character meets or play areas, so that wouldn't attract me at all.

I'm sure it would attract some - but I'm not speaking for everyone. Just like everyone else, I'm speaking for myself here.

20K isn't the point. Stop directing your frustration at me, and direct it at those who make these heinous things you claim to say.

Take a step back. Take a break from the topic and read it whenever what set you off today isn't still burning you up.

Your goal is admirable, you just need to go about it in a more thoughtful way. If that's egotistical of me to say, then :stroke: :stroke:, it doesn't make it any less true.

AEfx

 

[speck76]

20K was obviously used as an example.

Perhaps I did not go about this the correct way, but I do not think that I was incorrect in my point. I did not single anyone out, but some who are culprits of the doom and gloom did early in the thread.

I understand that WDW might have lost some of the magic to some people, but their is a reason, and many fail to recognize that.

Some of the magic has been lost due to cuts (which had a reason) and sometimes the magic fades simply because we get older, and more familier, and, like a coke habit, you can't have the same amount to get the same high, you need more and more and more just to reach that same level (not talking from experience here)....Space Mountain was a great ride when it opened, and it is now considered a "classic"....but how would it be judged if it opened today? My guess is that most would view it as a failure. The theming is not great, the ride is smooth and slow, it has no AA's. Most have GROWN to love this ride, but today, we expect MORE.....

I started a post this afternoon....it is titled "Good stuff is happening". The reason for the post was not so much to list all of the wonderful things that are actually going on at the parks, but also, to see the reaction from other members that this thread was not about doom and gloom, or Eisner being a money-grubber, or anything like that. The goos news is that all of the posts have been positive. The other point is that the doom-sayers have not really participated in the posts.....which is up to them, but, hopefully, they at least got something from it.

As I said before, it really does not mean that much to me....I am still going to enjoy myself at the parks.....it would just be nice if people would realize the method behind the madness.

 

[JBSLJames]

Hey Speck - Good Job. I do not know where AEfx is coming from on his direct attack on you and your 'arrogance'. Oh well. Some points are well made, but direct them in general as you have done.

I had just replied to a trip report before reading this thread where just about all the trip report talked about was the things that were wrong. As a one time visitor, I was turned off immediately. With all the negative posting, if I did not know better, I would have to guess that WDW is a piece of cr@p. Well, now I know better.

As many of you know from my posts since I came aboard, I am a season pass holder at Paramount's Kings Island (PKI) in Ohio. I really like PKI. It is first and foremost a Thrill Park. You go there for the coasters (and in my case, the kids area, but again for thrill rides) and not the shows. I can honestly say, I Have not been to a show at PKI for over 10 years.

That was one of our focuses on our trip to WDW. To tell you the truth, I really like PKI. We are able to vist 15 to 20 times a year and the new waterpark additions are good, but when we were planning our trip to WDW, we expected better. And WDW delivered. It was everything we had hoped and more. Little things happen all the time. With the number of visitors to the park, cleanliness and minor maintenance will always be a work in progress. I think all the parks were in great condition. We enjoyed everything and the kids, yes the kids, loved Dinoland. I thought Dinosaur was excellent and I even liked SGE. Why, because it is like nothing I get at PKI and I am a Stich fan. If I have one negative thing to say, it would be that there are not enough hours in the day to fit everything in.

Missing out on FOTLK and Test Track was a bummer. . .but all I have to do is mention WDW to my kids and their smiles light up the room and that, my friends, is what it is all about.

GB

 

[nibblesandbits]

You need to understand that while you work in the themepark industry, the majority of people who come to this site do not, and when you throw terms like "ignorant" at them, and make these non-specific, yet highly exagerated claims (no one ever said they expect 8 E-tickets a year - I know you didn't mean it, but you said it, it's just that everything you have written here has been hyperbole) you are just going to either a) PO the people you are trying to reach, or b) not reach them at all because they don't understand what the heck you are talking about in the first place.

I know what I have to say doesn't exactly go with this quote, but I was thinking about this as I was reading it. As a mostly observer of this site, I have noticed quite a lot of things. There are a lot of people on here who complain. Sure it's one thing to complain about a ride that doesn't live up to your standards or an experience that didn't have the Disney magic in it, but there are people who will continue to post, bashing these topics just because they can.

( As a side note) Now about people thinking that there should be costly improvements every year. I have to say, from what I have seen, yeah, quite a few people seem to be making the claim that we should be building E-tickets or some other expensive, enormous project every year. Most people doing this are not people who post on here all the time, these are more the newbies. Now this isn't a bad thing and don't think that I'm ragging on the newbies, seeing as how I still kind of am one, but, I can see where a lot of regulars on here would get upset having to explain things over and over, (i.e. E-tickets everywhere) because these new people haven't been around this site enough to get an understanding of how the company works. So, what I'm saying is the regulars shouldn't get upset when people ask them questions like this, because remember, you were a newbie at one point and you didn't know everything there is to know. (End of side note)

Disney World is an amazing place and if we all didn't think that, we all wouldn't be here. So with that being said, think about what your posting. Is it being posted because you truly think that the company is doing something wrong, or is it because you are doing it just to complain. That to me is the focus of this thread.

 

[nibblesandbits]

I just used 20K as an example. I have said before that I belive eventually it should be the home of an E-ticket, but it's not a requirement. I just want something to experience. I don't do character meets or play areas, so that wouldn't attract me at all.

I'm sure it would attract some - but I'm not speaking for everyone. Just like everyone else, I'm speaking for myself here.

Just to make this clear that I'm not trying to bash you or anything, but I think a lot of people want things that attract just them. But the Walt Disney Company is not trying to attract just you or me. They want to please everybody as a whole. That's why there is talk to put a meet and greet in the area of 20K, at least for now. Because that's what attracts a lot of people down there. To meet their favorite characters. Sure it sucks that they take things out to do that (i.e. Goofy's Dancing Jamboree, and what was there before it) But they are trying to cater to everyone. Do I care if they put in a meet and greet? Not really. As long as they can build a ride next to it, I am fine. Do I think another meet and greet is necessary? not really, but then again they aren't trying to please me either.

 

[BrerWolf]

Food and merchandise no good? That's news to me.
Anywho, I need everyone to stop for one second.
After 9/11 the budget was cut to the size of a pea. And because of that the little details started to diminish. Now attendance is climbing up. And if you could stop for a second and look around things are getting better. Now we as adults know things cannot be fixed immediately. It will take YEARS for it all to be the way it was in the 1990's. But if you stop and look at all the work that is being done you would see that things are being improved. It is just a matter of time.
Again Disney is NOT perfect, it never was and it never will be. There are somethings that are downright embarassing (i.e. the animator situation), but festering on all the bad things is not healthy.

Another thing, when SGE was on the drwing board, attendance was still not great, and by the time attendance started going up, they couldnt change the ride enought to make it perfect. Also, many of the people rating SGE, are AI fans that are still remotley attached to the ride, so therefore they might not rate the ride as well as others that never rode or enjoyed SGE Thats probbably why SGE has gotten so many mixed reviews. (just my opinion)
no one take offense.

 

[Pixie Duster]

Huh, uh, hmmmm, ok sure... I can kinda see that.

 

[wannab@dis]

Another thing, when SGE was on the drwing board, attendance was still not great, and by the time attendance started going up, they couldnt change the ride enought to make it perfect. Also, many of the people rating SGE, are AI fans that are still remotley attached to the ride, so therefore they might not rate the ride as well as others that never rode or enjoyed SGE Thats probbably why SGE has gotten so many mixed reviews. (just my opinion)
no one take offense.

I just don't know about this. The main problem with SGE is the storyline and that would probably be the least expensive part of the project. The AA and cannons would be the costly part. If money was cut from the project, why not kill the cannons, use some lights above the theater for the moving spotlights and show the cannons on the screens? I'm sure it would have been cheaper to draw the cannons instead of building them. There were several places to cut the budget that probably would not have affected the story. I just don't believe the story was there to begin with and that is my problem with SGE, not some leftover angst about AE.

 

[General Grizz]

Another thing, when SGE was on the drwing board, attendance was still not great, and by the time attendance started going up, they couldnt change the ride enought to make it perfect. Also, many of the people rating SGE, are AI fans that are still remotley attached to the ride, so therefore they might not rate the ride as well as others that never rode or enjoyed SGE Thats probbably why SGE has gotten so many mixed reviews. (just my opinion)
no one take offense.

I don't think a negative reviews from AE fans would cause so many complaints that Disney would invest millions in a revamp?

 

[dxwwf3]

I don't think a negative reviews from AE fans would cause so many complaints that Disney would invest millions in a revamp?

Exactly. There seems to be no general group that is down on SGE. AE fans don't like it, people that never saw AE don't like it, and people that hated AE don't like it.

I think everyone can agree there is potentail there for a nice kids attraction, but it's not there yet.

 

[BrerWolf]

Another thing, when SGE was on the drwing board, attendance was still not great, and by the time attendance started going up, they couldnt change the ride enought to make it perfect. Also, many of the people rating SGE, are AI fans that are still remotley attached to the ride, so therefore they might not rate the ride as well as others that never rode or enjoyed SGE Thats probbably why SGE has gotten so many mixed reviews. (just my opinion)
no one take offense.

sorry where it said "...as others that never rode or didnt like SGE", that SGE should have been AI. Sorry.

 

[BrerWolf]

when is the scheduled or rumored rehab for this ride, again???:brick:

 

[Hakunamatata]

I think Disney should have themed the attraction after The Incredibles instead of Stitch. Think about it, The Incredibles promos started at minimal a year and half ago, I remember seeing them in theatres with Matrix and LOTR promos last year. Disney should have banked on its prior success with Pixar involved films and themed the attraction based on the Incredibles. This being said, it would have required allot more money I am sure, but they could have had a newer attraction based on a current box office success.

Thats just my opinion, and is worth very little in the grand scheme of things....

 

[DisneyFan 2000]

And what would the connection with the Sci-Fi theme be?