Let's just close WDW since they just can't do anything right anyway

[speck76]

And let me clarify, individual stockholders do not matter that much in ANY coorporation. And it's not that they don't matter, it's just they do not contribute as many ingredients therefore are not entitled to a big chunk of the pie.

I should have been more clear about that.....it is the same with ANY company.

 

[rosebud's mom]

The world is NOT a perfect place. However, IMHO DisneyWorld is the closest &%$#@* place I've seen. Is it the same as it was when I fist went 32 years ago ? No. Is that bad ? No. We will NEVER all agree on every change that is made. I also find that the older I get, the more critically I look at change.

As many of you know, we recently returned from 5 wonderful days and nights at Riverside. This was the first vacation in TEN years that I was able to convince my Type A husband to take. He is ( dare I say this ?) not particularly a Disney fan, and went primarily for my sake and our daughters. He is EXTREMELY hard to please, and if he compliments something then the praise was truly deserved.

That said: He was so pleased with the food everywhere we ate that I bought the Mickey cookbook and am looking here and by email for specific recipes that were not in the book. He is encouraging me to find out how to pass on praise for a specific CM who went above and beyond to make our 4 year old's trip memorable. He has even agreed to take another trip as soon as we can afford it ! :sohappy:

He is undecided wether we should try a different resort as he was so pleased with Riverside. ( and we were there with the Pop Warner groups ! ) I called ahead and asked to be placed as far away from them as possible, and the only places we saw them were the food court as we passed through and on the busses. Due to his job he frequently stays in business hotels, and said he has never had the level of service we were given at Riverside. His only complaint was with the overcrowding of the busses. He felt that the bus driver should not have allowed pre-school aged children to stand precariously clinging to the rails while grown men were sitting.

The crowds were a bit larger than I remember them from Decembers 15 or 16 years ago. People are still going, and for the most part, seem to be enjoying it enough to return again. I would say that Disney is certainly doing something right.

I would also like to thank the CMs here whose input was invaluable toward planning our trip. Kudos to Brent, Pixie Duster, and Endikari. I only wish I could have thanked you each in person.

 

[dandaman]

Some people on these boards seem to complain more than others, as I have been steadily finding out in the past few months...

 

[no2apprentice]

4. They don't understand that WDC is a business that has responsibilities that go beyond "preserving the Disney Magic", like making money for their shareholders......without whom there would be no parks, films, or anything.

Although I have no idea what they really talk about in the management offices of Disney, I often wonder if management just doesn't get it. I believe (and I suspect that most who post here will agree), that one of the points that has saved Disney through it's hard times is....the magic. But from what many of us have seen, the magic has dropped a little. Maybe not enough for the 1st or 2nd time visitor to notice, but for the hard core we notice the difference. When management is more concerned about keeping profits going, no matter what, then they are taking aim at their own foot, and starting to squeeze the trigger. It's the magic that keeps people coming back. It's the magic that keeps Disney's bar a little above everyone else. I don't have any idea if Disney management gets any training in magic, but like it or not, if they factor out the magic in running this particular business, they are going to hurt the business. Maybe not overnight, but it will hurt in the long run. Keep the magic first, and let the MBA business models and formulas work around the magic, not despite it.

As far as people complaining a great deal, any forum will have those who enjoy causing controversy, playing the devil's advocate, and just getting their jollies by posting something under the flag of anonymity that they wouldn't dare say in a room full of people. The rest of us should just rise above it.

Sorry if this doesn't make much sense...I just woke up. :snore:

 

[scorp111]

I must start out by saying, that to a lot of posters on this board, I don't "qualify" to have an opinion. Since my WDW park going history is all of 3 months now. (I also went to DLP in 2002).

Obviously a lot of people are comparing the parks to the "glory days" and according to most everyone, there has been some detoriation. And maybe it was especially hastened by the events of 9/11.

I simply can't say, because I didn't go the parks then.

My two visits this year have been nothing short of "magical", for me and my family. Again, I can't compare to before, because I have no before. Maybe I am lucky that way, but I know that for my vacation dollar, there is no other place like it.

Due to living in three different countries, on two different continents, I have been fortunate to see many theme parks, many national parks, and many of the world's most magnificent citites. But for the escapism, the fantasy, and the magic, my family loves the Magic Kingdom, and WDW as a whole.

We will be spending at least 10 days there in '05.

 

[Erika]

GREAT thread, Speck.

The system won't allow me to rep everyone, but if there was a way to do it, you'd all get green from me. There have been so many good points made here. Bravo!

 

[dxwwf3]

While some people do always seem to want nothing changed, there are also some people that want EVERYTHING changed. It works both ways on this board. There are some people that would replace Cinderella's Castle if they brought in something "new"

Some people might view me as someone who never wants things to change just because I was so vocal about losing my favorite attraction. But really I'm fine with most of the changes done to the resort. Everyone seems to be sentimental about some things and they don't want them to be changed. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Most of us wouldn't complain if we didn't care. This reminds me of a lecture given my a EXTREME liberal in one of my history classes. He would always stress that the reason he always complains about the government is because he cares so much about this country. And there is nothing more patriotic than questioning your government. And while I might not totally agree with him about politics, I do agree with him about that point. So I said that to say this. We all love Disney World and we want it to be the best it can be. And if Disney is cutting corners on somethings and their product is of lesser quality than before, then we should call them on it. And when they do get something right (Wishes, Philharmagic, Soarin, etc.), we should praise them for that.

So what I'm saying is, most of the people that complain on here, In my opinion, do so because they care so much. I don't think the majority of people complain just because they want to create controversy.

 

[Pioneer Hall]

I have to agree with you there Speck. It has gotten to a point it seems that we are so picky about everything Disney does that everything is wrong. This tile isn't clean, this attraction isn't Walt, these cast members aren't Disney, etc. It gets to a point where you want to just come out and tell people not to go to WDW at all anymore because nothing can be good. There is a difference between being a Disney Fan (even addict) and being a Disney maniac. But we do need to realize that Disney is nothing more than a business and fuctions like a business should. There only goal is to make money and provide to its shareholders.

 

[TTATraveler]

Disney will never be able to please everyone, as we all have our own standards. However, I feel they do a damn good job at trying to cater to every person. The magic is still alive and well at Disney, and it is the little attentions to detail that can be found no where else. Sure, some really good attractions have gone by the wayside (Horizons, JII, World of Motion, etc). There have also been some really good new attractions such as Mickey's Philharmagic, RnRC, ToT, Wishes, Illuminations ROE, Test Track. Are these new attractions up to par with the ones they replaced? Some would say yes and others would say no, but that is just the way society is. We always like to point out the negatives, but rarely mention the positives. I am also sure if that nothing was changed in the parks and nothing new was introduced, people would also complain about that too.

While the prices of food on property are more expensive than McDonalds and the like, the quality is also better. Merchandising seems to have gotten creative over the years. I wish there were as many disney realted toys out now as there was when I was a kid.

After visiting Univeral and Sea World on my past trip, I will say that they are great parks and each have there own niche, but both lack that certain Disney "feel", or as I like to put it "escape from reality".

If you are not happy with Eisner and the way the Disney parks are run, then don't go. Go to Six Flags instead and see if there is something magical to be said about their parks.

While I am disappointed in some of the decisions management has taken over the years at Disney, I keep comming back. Why?, becuase the good decisions certainly outweigh the bad ones.

 

[mkt]

This thread has me on the floor laughing hysterically. I thank all of you.

And for the record, I own considerably more than just 100 shares (hellooooooooooooooooo inheritance), and if I don't get some perks for it, I don't think any shareholder should.

Now excuse me, I have to go over to WDW and take care of the 2 or 3 blades of grass that my stake in Disney entitles me to.

 

[Pixie Duster]

I concur with TTATraveler. To add to that, I think what really irks me about the complainers on here is that they really lay into the negative and barely touch the positive aspects. To me someone who complains all the time and never stops and says "well they did this right, let's focus on that for a minute" is not worth my time because if they are never satisfied then you will waste your energy trying to please them.

Now, someone who is simply hard to please is another story. I am up for challenge if I know that person is willing to have an open mind or is willing to be made happy evenutally.

 

[mkt]

Hi Sis!

 

[speck76]

I concur with TTATraveler. To add to that, I think what really irks me about the complainers on here is that they really lay into the negative and barely touch the positive aspects. To me someone who complains all the time and never stops and says "well they did this right, let's focus on that for a minute" is not worth my time because if they are never satisfied then you will waste your energy trying to please them.

WDW has added 10 or so attractions in the last 5 years, but the only attractions "they" ever talk about are Dino-Rama, the Aladdin spinner, and JII. When they do talk about the other attractions, they mention "cardboard cut-outs on Buzz, (the same for RnRC....you know, because AA's would be so effective at 45mph)", they complain about "the vast amount of people that won't ride MS because it is too scary (but fail to mention the ride itself)..............2 or 3 mistakes does not make a trend.......the trend has been, and continues to be, good attractions with a good story.....some people can not handle that, it has to be all about the negative.

It makes me wonder, if WDW did everything right, what would they talk about?

 

[DisJosh]

Walt Disney set creative standards in the world of entertainment. When his own company starts failing to meet these standards there will be plenty of us to voice our opinions on the matter. That's what's happening here.

I understand completely that Disney is a business and big business like Disney is never as pretty and sugar coated as we would all like it to be. But when you start cutting the creative out of a company that flourishes because of its inovention and creativity you're going to lose out. Now I don't know if Eisner is soley responsible for this...I'm sure there are many others that support cutting these corners as well. You can't run Disney like that though.

Companies like Pixar and Lucasarts understand this concept. Their employees get the backing they need to be as creative as they can. And that's why they have so much success. Disney has had a bunch of successive flops...unless Pixar was involved. So what's Eisners solution? Get rid of the animation studio in Florida and put all the attention on releasing CGI films. It works for Pixar so it must be the solution!

The same goes for the parks. Eisner and the rest of the higher ups are so far our of touch with the parks. They haven't got a clue what will work out or not. And they sure as hell won't give the funding to imagineering to let them come up with something truely Disney caliber.

The company needs to close down temporarilly for a rehab. It's lightbulbs need changing and it could use some fresh paint.

 

[speck76]

Walt Disney set creative standards in the world of entertainment. When his own company starts failing to meet these standards there will be plenty of us to voice our opinions on the matter. That's what's happening here.

I understand completely that Disney is a business and big business like Disney is never as pretty and sugar coated as we would all like it to be. But when you start cutting the creative out of a company that flourishes because of its inovention and creativity you're going to lose out. Now I don't know if Eisner is soley responsible for this...I'm sure there are many others that support cutting these corners as well. You can't run Disney like that though.

The economics of the last few years basically meant that they had to cut "something". When your parks lose millions of annual visitors simply because of the economy and the terrorist attacks, you can not continue to do "business as usual" and expect to be around for too long. Something had to go, they had a choice to cut people, or cut capital, or both......either way, they had to cut costs.

Companies like Pixar and Lucasarts understand this concept. Their employees get the backing they need to be as creative as they can. And that's why they have so much success. Disney has had a bunch of successive flops...unless Pixar was involved. So what's Eisners solution? Get rid of the animation studio in Florida and put all the attention on releasing CGI films. It works for Pixar so it must be the solution!

Companies like Pixar and Lucasarts operate for the most part on 1 campus, WDFA followed suit. If you are making 1 product, why would you want the people creating the product to be 2000 miles away from each other. 1 thing that WDC could have done is to have changed the focus of the Florida studio, had them work on "shorts" and have the other studio work on "features". On top of that, their have not yet been any CGI flops.....the move to CGI by WDC was probably more of a Wall Street move than any other.

The same goes for the parks. Eisner and the rest of the higher ups are so far our of touch with the parks. They haven't got a clue what will work out or not. And they sure as hell won't give the funding to imagineering to let them come up with something truely Disney caliber.

Sure, they have a clue what will work. Soarin works for DCA, so it is being built at Epcot, LMA works for WDSP, so it is being built at MGM. Philharmagic, great attraction, never heard a bad thing about it, same for Wishes, what a nice show.....they have "missed" on a few attractions, but that is what happens when you try something new......you idea could be "not liked".

 

[DisneyFan 2000]

Hey everyone,
I'm going to say something some may find hard to accept: Many of us are picky because we care. Some care so much that they just can't accept things like Dino-Rama. I must agree with speck76, it isn't the trend. But still, sometimes these small things just leave a bad taste overall of the parks. It's like eating a great meal and then you find a roach in the desert. Was the meal great? Sure it was but you can't not remember the roach you found inside the desert.

This is the case with Disney World and Disney fans. They love the meal (the parks and atmosphere) but aren't quite satisfied with the desert (cheap rides, cost cutting etc). I find it a bit unfair to say we shouldn't complain and that we should just put on a happy face. We should, but not at the cost of complaing with every thing that Disney offers.

I think the main reason we're seeing so much negativity lately is mainly because of Stitch's Great Escape. Many are dipleased and are voicing their opinion. I think we should all just wait until the impact Stitch has made will cool down and then really see how many of us complain. In most discussions I see nothing but chearful faces saying how much they enjoy Disney. Lately, there are so many Stitch and Universal vs Disney threads that it just seems like the majority complains. It seems as if only in those threads Dino-Rama, Aladdin and JIYI are mentioned. In my opinion, we should just let things settle down and then see how many of us still complain. I bet ya there won't be too many you'll find.

There you have it, my 0.02 cents... :wave:
DisneyFan.

EDIT: Please don't close WDW.
EDIT#2: Edited a few mistakes...

 

[dxwwf3]

Hey everyone,
I'm going to say something some may find hard to accept: Many of us are picky because we care. Some care so much that they just can't accept things like Dino-Rama. I must agree with speck76, it isn't the trend. But still, sometimes these small things just leave a bad taste overall of the parks. It's like eating a great meal and then you find a roach in the desert. Was the meal great? Sure it was but you can't not remember the roach you found inside the desert.

This is the case with Disney World and Disney fans. They love the meal (the parks and atmosphere) but aren't quite satisfied with the desert (cheap rides, cost cutting etc). I find it a bit unfair to say we shouldn't complain and that we should just put on a happy face. We shouldn't, but not at the cost of complaing with every thing that Disney offers.

I think the main reason we're seeing so much negativity lately is mainly because of Stitch's Great Escape. Many are dipleased and are voicing their opinion. I think we should all just wait until the impact Stitch has made will cool down and then really see how many of us complain. In most discussions I see nothing but chearful faces saying how much they enjoy Disney. Lately, there are so many Stitch and Universal vs Disney threads that it just seems like the majority complains. It seems as if only in those threads Dino-Rama, Aladdin and JIYI are mentioned. In my opinion, we should just let things settle down and then see how many of us still complain. I bet ya there won't be too many you'll find.

There you have it, my 0.02 cents... :wave:
DisneyFan.

EDIT: Please don't close WDW.

Excellent post DisneyFan2000. I think we both agree about most of the people that complain do it because they care. Of course some others might do it for other reasons, but I think it is the minority.

 

[speck76]

Excellent post DisneyFan2000. I think we both agree about most of the people that complain do it because they care. Of course some others might do it for other reasons, but I think it is the minority.

The problem that I have is that people complain without seeing the big picture. Im my opinion, too many people complain about "whatever" without realizing the place of what they are complaining about in the whole scheme of things. Nobody has really offered realistic constructive criticism. The only solution the complainers have is "reopen WDFA Florida and spend $1gazillion on every attraction that is built". If they really "care", they would care more about the "unpretty" aspects of the company, such as keeping stockholders happy with good profits and dividends, and how this can not happen when the company is financially irresponsible. What we seem to have is a bunch of "Disney Product" fans, not "Disney" fans.

 

[dxwwf3]

The problem that I have is that people complain without seeing the big picture. Im my opinion, too many people complain about "whatever" without realizing the place of what they are complaining about in the whole scheme of things. Nobody has really offered realistic constructive criticism. The only solution the complainers have is "reopen WDFA Florida and spend $1gazillion on every attraction that is built". If they really "care", they would care more about the "unpretty" aspects of the company, such as keeping stockholders happy with good profits and dividends, and how this can not happen when the company is financially irresponsible. What we seem to have is a bunch of "Disney Product" fans, not "Disney" fans.

Well I guess my thing is that I'm a WDW fan first and foremost. I care about the parks alot more than the "Disney brand". I don't really care about the movies, TV, or the characters as much as I care about the parks, the attractions in the parks, and the other things of WDW. So I guess you can fault me for that.

But I don't think I would consider myself a big complainer. Like I said eariler I usually am in favor of changes.

 

[CaptainMichael]

I must say I have enjoyed this thread. Props to Speck for bringing it up! I have been very pleased with the attractions added recently. These attractions include: Mission:Space, Rock N' Roller Coaster, and Mickey's Philharmagic. I have yet to experience Wishes do to my family's love of Illuminations, but I'm sure it is great as well.

As for Mission:Space's queue having air vents and speakers that are visible...HELLO! It is themed to be a space training facility!