Len Testa Crowd Analysis

the.dreamfinder

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
Bairstow said:
One thing I did notice about my trip last week is the apparent death of the single rider line. It was still being offered at Everest (when Everest wasn't down altogether), but neither Rockin nor Test Track had their single rider lines running as long as we were there, and often had signs up advising of this. Would this also be due to a reduction of staffing, if there indeed is one?
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I’d be very curious to see what the waits for Flight of Passage would be with a single rider line.
 
Bairstow

Bairstow

Well-Known Member
the.dreamfinder said:
I’d be very curious to see what the waits for Floght of Passage would be with a single rider line.
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I don't think there's much potential there.
Like Soarin, the grouper has tons of time to sort out and maximize the rows of people for optimal efficiency. It's not like the coasters where you'd have a handful of "wasted" seats on every train due to odd-numbered groups.
 
Nubs70

Nubs70

Well-Known Member
Bairstow said:
I don't think there's much potential there.
Like Soarin, the grouper has tons of time to sort out and maximize the rows of people for optimal efficiency. It's not like the coasters where you'd have a handful of "wasted" seats on every train due to odd-numbered groups.
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Single rider lines help maximize throughput. This concept is used at each and every ski lift in existence.

However, if you are not interested in maximizing throughput........
 
Bairstow

Bairstow

Well-Known Member
Nubs70 said:
Single rider lines help maximize throughput. This concept is used at each and every ski lift in existence.

However, if you are not interested in maximizing throughput........
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You have to weigh the potential to maximize throughput with guest satisfaction and staffing costs. At an attraction like Everest, where guests are arranged in rows of 2, every odd-numbered group followed by an even-numbered group creates the opportunity for a single rider to be seated. This means that every minute and a half you would have the potential of sending 4-5 "extra" guests through the attraction due to running a single rider line.

Conversely, attractions like Soarin and Flight feature a few very long rows of guests, and cast members stationed at the end of the feeder queues are constantly are trying to calculate what combination of guest parties will ensure that few, if any seats on any cycle are left unfilled. Consequently, if you've got a team working that's on the ball, every 7-8 minute cycle will have only 2, or maybe even no unfilled seats.

Flight is a super high-demand attraction right now, so if they put in a single rider line it would be extraordinarily long and barely, if ever, move. This would be a great way to irritate guests and waste cast member time without significantly increasing throughput.
 
DisneyOwl12

DisneyOwl12

Member
Nubs70 said:
Single rider lines help maximize throughput. This concept is used at each and every ski lift in existence.

However, if you are not interested in maximizing throughput........
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But in the case of flight, the grouper has the time to fill in all seats without needing to quickly draw from a single rider line. The last time I rode, I was in a group of 3. When we got to within about 10-15 people from the grouper, she had three seats left in a group and the next party had two people. She simply held that group of two back and asked for the next party of three, which was us. The group of two was placed in the next room.
 
ford91exploder

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
Brad Bishop said:
I think, long term, this is a huge problem for Disney. Most people go to WDW because of nostalgia. It's a nice place and all that but they remember it from being kids and it gives them warm fuzzies. This is passed down generationally and, while you can bump up profits in the short term by reducing staff and charging more, you start to give families bad experiences and you lose that generational gear in your business model which can't be shown on a spreadsheet.

Add to it the word of mouth stuff. If you go to WDW, spend a bunch of money, and come back and complain about how expensive it was and how you couldn't ride anything because of the lines and maybe it looked a little dirtier and then a few things happen:

You feel a bit stupid dumping that much cash into a bad experience. I hit this a few years back with table service dining at WDW. I used to like it and would have a TS meal each night of my many trips, then the prices went up and the quality went down and all I was left with was, "I was stupid to pay that much for a lousy to mediocre (at best) experience." I started eating off-site but, at the same time, I was experiencing the same cost/value problem just in my overall daily visits until I reached the point that I stopped going.

Now, I don't go unless it's free (winning tickets at work, maybe). Even then my attitude is, "Do I really want to bother?" This is coming from a past AP holder for nearly a decade. That's not good. Add to it that I don't speak openly any longer about how great I think WDW is and, at the same time, if the conversation comes up, I'll talk about how it's not as great as it used to be but at least it's more expensive. That's a negative impact on others who may be considering taking their families to WDW.

I'm not trying to ruin Disney, it's just that, yeah, it's not the same value it used to be and you can rattle on about "..Disney is a business..." which is great but I'm not going back and I don't have a lot of good things to say about the experience. That's a problem, in my eyes, because I'm not alone.

Something to consider: Fast Passes were a big success because they gave the park-goer a positive experience and they went back and told their family and friends what a great time that they had and how fantastic it all was. I don't think that's the case any longer. You have your die-hard Disney fans who will think it's great no matter what but what WDW has done with staff cuts, increased prices, and other money grabs is shaven off a good number of folks that used to be pretty hooked to the pixie dust and landed where I am now.

Going forward, I think there's a good chance that the business decisions that are being made now (Disney is a business!!) are going to have some real adverse effects a generation out. That's OK for now because the current spreadsheets look great!
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You are where I got to a few years back, AP holder since forever and in 2015 just decided the value was no longer there. I discuss WDW in the same terms you do.

I've turned down opportunities to visit WDW for free as the headaches are not worth investing the time, I thought I'd miss it more than i do.
 
N

Neverland44

Member
Minnesota disney fan said:
Times for my 2 cents:)
My husband and I were at WDW 2/27 to 3/7/18, and the parks did not look very busy to me, BUT the wait times for SM at MK never got below 60 minutes while we were there. Fantasyland was worse, and I felt sorry for all those frustrated parents and children. The wait times were not good at all. When I showed my family the park pictures, they all said that the parks didn't look crowded to them. That made me take another look and, yes, they were right. The parks did not look crowded, but the ride waits were very long.
Then I watched Len Testa's podcast and now know what's going on. What a shame.

As for the comments of decreased merchandise sales, I have bought a Mickey hoodie, and 2 t shirts at our local resale/thrift store. I have had great comments on all of them. I didn't buy any clothes this time, which is unusual for me. I'm happy with my value thrift store buys :)
Just a side note: I noticed ALOT of people with frowns on their faces, and looking stressed out. Not many smiles at WDW while we were there. I noticed a lot of people looking at their cell phones while in line and while walking, and were probably trying to find more fp's, which has to make it more stressful and less enjoyable = no time to enjoy the world in real time.
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When I see pictures, most people look upset or bored or angry. How is this the happiest place on earth?
 
Jenny72

Jenny72

Well-Known Member
My family was planning to do a "once in a lifetime" 10-day on-site stay this summer with dining plan and all the trimmings because my kids are at a great age for Disney. But the past couple of times we have gone, the lines have been so bad that we really haven't enjoyed ourselves that much. (We might have been the grumpy people in the pictures, haha.) We've decided that 10 days of that mess, even 7 days of that mess (plus parking fees and other fees, etc.) would not be a relaxing and fun vacation anymore, so we're just going to do something else. This bums me out a lot because I've always dreamed of having a big Disney vacation. But the big Disney experience that I dreamed of doesn't exist anymore. It's better in my memory/imagination than in reality now.
 
N

Neverland44

Member
Jenny72 said:
My family was planning to do a "once in a lifetime" 10-day on-site stay this summer with dining plan and all the trimmings because my kids are at a great age for Disney. But the past couple of times we have gone, the lines have been so bad that we really haven't enjoyed ourselves that much. (We might have been the grumpy people in the pictures, haha.) We've decided that 10 days of that mess, even 7 days of that mess (plus parking fees and other fees, etc.) would not be a relaxing and fun vacation anymore, so we're just going to do something else. This bums me out a lot because I've always dreamed of having a big Disney vacation. But the big Disney experience that I dreamed of doesn't exist anymore. It's better in my memory/imagination than in reality now.
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That's sad and I mean that. They're alienating their base to get higher income from the rich. We're thinking about Disneyland Paris or one of the less popular parks off peak. It's not fun to pay for lines, crappy service or a poor experience.
 

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