News Lasseter taking leave of absence

[MerlinTheGoat]

Per Phil12's usual nonsense, it has once again devolved into the same crap he always pulls- blatant trolling. He used a serious conversation about sexual harassment as an opportunity to derail it into his usual bait of "Walt Disney was a horrible person". I encourage others not to enable or feed this behavior. Whatever opinion you have of the Lasseter situation.

With that blatant attempt to derail and troll for attention cleared up, considering bringing Lasseter back is a mistake. Normally I take a stance of innocent until proven guilty. But the way Disney took such swift action against Lasseter (and him not denying his actions or fighting back) makes it obvious that there are much more serious things going on behind the scenes than we realize. This is not just a case of "unwanted hugs" (hugging alone is nowhere near enough to ruin his reputation and get him fired).

There are some people who feel he deserves another chance because they feel he would still have value for the company. Even if you are willing to forgive him, I believe Lasseter's creativity is highly overrated by fans. Some of Pixar's best movies in recent years have been largely devoid of his influence. His greatest asset was the power and influence he had over the higher executives. But even if he came back, he would no longer command any authority anymore due to his scandals. So that benefit is nullified.

 

[AEfx]

This is a topic that will be debated over the next few years as “flawed” creative men try to make career comebacks and try to distinguish pervy and inappropriate from assault and harassment. I don’t know what bucket Lasseter falls into, we don’t have enough info.

I'd disagree - lack of any additional accusations or anyone coming forward whatsoever along with Disney's willingness to bring him back gives us quite a bit of info.

But as a shareholder I would want all settlements repaid to the company from Lasseter...

What settlements?

 

[flynnibus]

Ignore is your friend....

 

[CJR]

But even if he came back, he would no longer command authority anymore due to his scandals. So that benefit is nullified.

That's actually what appears to be on the table. Drop the managerial work, but keep him as a creative resource.

Not only will it help with a transition, but it'll keep him away from Universal, Netflix, and others. He actually has the money and resources to start his own studio, although I don't see that happening. So, keeping him at Disney, but without managerial power is a realistic option.

That's as long as nothing more serious has come to light. If they're seriously talking about a potential return though, at this point, it sounds like nothing too serious came out. I don't imagine they'd still be having a conversation about it if they felt other studios wouldn't want him. It's not just about how valuable he is to Disney, but how valuable he can be to Disney's competition.

 

[AEfx]

Normally I take a stance of innocent until proven guilty. But the way Disney took such swift action against Lasseter (and him not denying his actions or fighting back) makes it obvious that there are much more serious things going on behind the scenes than we realize. This is not just a case of "unwanted hugs" (hugging alone is nowhere near enough to ruin his reputation and get him fired).

And that's what is scary and what I was talking about earlier. This "well, due process doesn't matter - it just looks bad so it must be!"

Disney took "swift action" because it was in the middle of a rabid media frenzy hunt the likes of which haven't been seen in modern history.

The fact that they are even talking about this at this point indicates the opposite of what you are saying - that there wasn't much there to begin with.

 

[Rodan75]

I'd disagree - lack of any additional accusations or anyone coming forward whatsoever along with Disney's willingness to bring him back gives us quite a bit of info.



What settlements?

There has been enough reporting on this to say there is definitely smoke, and some reports have said settlements had been made, but to your point very little proof. ( you will see from my original post, I said we didn’t have enough info on the situation in general).

Inappropriate touching is a termination level form of harassment and pretty much everyone involved has admitted that happened.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Inappropriate touching is a termination level form of harassment and pretty much everyone involved has admitted that happened.

Exactly.

I don't think anyone should be able to get away with repeated inappropriate touching in a workplace and I haven't seen anyone deny that was happening. Honestly, I also remember thinking after he stumbled out obviously drunk for the last D23 parks presentation that I would get fired if I turned up to work like that.

As you said in your last post, if Disney does bring him back I'll assume they've done their research and not made this decision lightly. In a broader sense, though, I don't think the bar for firing offence should be set at the Weinstein level!

 

[xdan0920]

Someone told me that someone told them that @Phil12 would have been really into furry stuff if he had gone to college in Illinois instead of Ohio.

Ban that bleeping bleep from WDWMagic right now!!!! I won't stand for that type of carp!

 

[Animaniac93-98]

You don’t have to do something explicitly illegal to be fired from TWDC. Any behaviour the company deems contrary to their image or reputation is enough to get you sent away (and not to Europe for six paid months). It’s been that way long before #metoo was a movement and is not exclusive to Disney.

Lasseter’s return is as much a question of optics, precedent and risk than anything else.

 

[Nubs70]

Back in the day we had a concept of Innocent til proven guilty. Once guilty, your ability at a livelihood was seriously impaired if not destroyed.

Today, with the ever presence of the internet. Your ability to a livelihood can be destroyed permanently without opportunity for forgiveness and recompense.

I would suggest aggressive enforcement of slander and libel statutes in event of false accusation with the imposition of treble damages on accusers along with persons and organizations that perpetuate false accusations. Additionally, if an accusation is of such weight to ruin the life of the accused, the accusers must be named and not allowed the comfort of anonymity.

Aggressive enforcement of libel/slander would also go a long way to combat fake news by a "tryer of fact" rather than an employee of Facebook or Google.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Back in the day we had a concept of Innocent til proven guilty. Once guilty, your ability at a livelihood was seriously impaired if not destroyed.

Today, with the ever presence of the internet. Your ability to a livelihood can be destroyed permanently without opportunity for forgiveness and recompense.

I would suggest aggressive enforcement of slander and libel statutes in event of false accusation with the imposition of treble damages on accusers along with persons and organizations that perpetuate false accusations. Additionally, if an accusation is of such weight to ruin the life of the accused, the accusers must be named and not allowed the comfort of anonymity.

Aggressive enforcement of libel/slander would also go a long way to combat fake news by a "tryer of fact" rather than an employee of Facebook or Google.

Do you not find the pieces referenced wrt John’s misbehavior to not be convincing? They are hardly coming from blind item clickbait sites. These pieces have claims which, despite being anonymous, still required the writers to triple verify them from independent sources as well as clearance from legal for... libel.

Since you bring up the legal system, which favors the well heeled, consider the role in which NDAs/industry blacklists play in forcing victims to stay silent, for fear of career retribution. Is there not sufficient blowback for coming forward with these claims? Do you really want to suggest that, even with #MeToo, it’s a fair fight, that justice can be served?

 

[BoarderPhreak]

Back in the day we had a concept of Innocent til proven guilty. Once guilty, your ability at a livelihood was seriously impaired if not destroyed.

Today, with the ever presence of the internet. Your ability to a livelihood can be destroyed permanently without opportunity for forgiveness and recompense.

I would suggest aggressive enforcement of slander and libel statutes in event of false accusation with the imposition of treble damages on accusers along with persons and organizations that perpetuate false accusations. Additionally, if an accusation is of such weight to ruin the life of the accused, the accusers must be named and not allowed the comfort of anonymity.

Aggressive enforcement of libel/slander would also go a long way to combat fake news by a "tryer of fact" rather than an employee of Facebook or Google.

It used to be that an accusation of rape was as bad as it got with similar life-altering consequences, even before a trial. These days, the mere mention of "inappropriate behavior" brings out the pitchforks. Tomorrow it will be "he looked at me funny." Granted, we've learned things over the past decades and established new societal guidelines for what is appropriate and what is not. But you're right - in this day of social media and soapboxes on every (virtual) corner... You can pretty much take down anyone with a false (or truth stretching) claim. There need to be serious consequences, just like there are for falsely leveling a rape allegation. It's not like you can "take it back" once it's out there... Unlike identity protected rape victims, the internet never forgets.

 

[AEfx]

Since you bring up the legal system, which favors the well heeled, consider the role in which NDAs/industry blacklists play in forcing victims to stay silent, for fear of career retribution. Is there not sufficient blowback for coming forward with these claims? Do you really want to suggest that, even with #MeToo, it’s a fair fight, that justice can be served?

Post "me too"? You are darn skippy that things have changed.

"No one would believe me!" is no longer a valid excuse. Our culture now celebrates anyone who comes forward and says a man looked at them the wrong way. No questions asked. The legal system isn't even involved any more. All the court of public opinion needs to insist that someone be destroyed is a social media posting. It is all about 21st century mob justice at this point.

Personally, I think there is a significant step back with the way things are going because now we are completely infantalizing women. This is the inherent contradiction (or, one of them, more accurately) behind third-wave feminism. It is no longer about equality, it is about revenge and sending the message that all women are helpless creatures at the mercy of men. It is starting to backfire, though, because a lot of women don't feel like helpless creatures, women who can and do stand up for themselves when necessary. They really do exist. And we need to encourage that, above all else.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

The mistake here is comparing this particular situation with the usual mob mentality of destroying someone's reputation without any decent evidence. That indeed is a hugely dangerous situation and I have nothing but contempt for people who falsely accuse others for sexual assault or rape.

These allegations are being handled in a much more serious manner. We don't have the absurd mountains of evidence that brought down Weinstein or Cosby. And Disney has been doing whatever they can to keep things as muted as possible. But again they went to the trouble of removing Lasseter quite quickly. Lasseter isn't some irrelevant low level cast member that they wouldn't miss, they seem to consider him a VERY valuable asset to their business and he has considerable power in the company. Which is why they're possibly considering trying to sneak him back into power instead of just moving on without him. But I think it's absurd and dense to think Disney fired him (even temporarily) without a very good reason and without actually believing the allegations.

I also think we'd have heard Lasseter try to defend himself had these allegations been unfounded. He's always been willing to fight back against the executives at Disney and he'd be able to create a very ugly legal scandal against anyone who lost him his job and screwed up his reputation. I don't think he would be this quiet if he was falsely accused and terminated.

Whether you believe the MeToo movement is too radical or not (I am of two minds about it, I think it has done good but has also gone overboard as well), Lasseter didn't get in such serious trouble just for hugging people.

 

[AEfx]

The mistake here is comparing this particular situation with the usual mob mentality of destroying someone's reputation without any decent evidence.

I don't think anyone is directly comparing this one - we are talking about the broader movement above. That mob didn't have time to act here, because of how it was handled (and the fact that no one really knows who he is outside of certain segments of fandom).

But again they went to the trouble of removing Lasseter quite quickly.

But I think it's absurd and dense to think Disney fired him (even temporarily) without a very good reason and without actually believing the allegations.

They had no choice. That was a PR decision. And it was the right thing to do, in terms of the company, because this situation just hasn't blown up like the rest of them. If there were more to this, I think we would have heard by now. Especially given how "Disney" is special, we all know, in having that "family friendly" stuff attached (where something becomes a story because Disney is involved, period).

You might want to go back and review the OP of this thread, and the link in it, where Lasseter himself says, among other things:

"As hard as it is for me to step away from a job I am so passionate about and a team I hold in the highest regard, not just as artists but as people, I know it’s the best thing for all of us right now. My hope is that a six-month sabbatical will give me the opportunity to start taking better care of myself, to recharge and be inspired, and ultimately return with the insight and perspective I need to be the leader you deserve."

Given the torrent of these reports, I have no doubts that is why people seem to be confusing/conflating different instances (i.e., talking about "settlements" that were never reported, making the accusations more severe and specific than they were, etc.) - if there truly were more to this, I dearly think we would have heard by now. This was a temporary action to ride out the possible storm.

 

[V_L_Raptor]

There are some people who feel he deserves another chance because they feel he would still have value for the company. Even if you are willing to forgive him, I believe Lasseter's creativity is highly overrated by fam. Some of Pixar's best movies in recent years have been largely devoid of his influence. His greatest asset was the power and influence he had over the higher executives. But even if he came back, he would no longer command authority anymore due to his scandals. So that benefit is nullified.

It bears mentioning that, alongside all the other laundry that's getting aired, there are some rather convincing reports that Lasseter's creative genius is misappropriated. In particular, one of the articles (Vanity Fair?) showed some concept artwork from a protege who, to all appearances, designed Cars. Presenting others' work as his own is not an "oops."

ETA: See below. The article was in Hollywood Reporter.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

It bears mentioning that, alongside all the other laundry that's getting aired, there are some rather convincing reports that Lasseter's creative genius is misappropriated. In particular, one of the articles (Vanity Fair?) showed some concept artwork from a protege who, to all appearances, designed Cars. Presenting others' work as his own is not an "oops."

I'm inclined to consider that as a possibility. Even regarding Toy Story, supposedly Joe Ranft had more to do with the story than Lasseter (he died in 2005 sadly).

 

[the.dreamfinder]

It bears mentioning that, alongside all the other laundry that's getting aired, there are some rather convincing reports that Lasseter's creative genius is misappropriated. In particular, one of the articles (Vanity Fair?) showed some concept artwork from a protege who, to all appearances, designed Cars. Presenting others' work as his own is not an "oops."

That was in “The Hollywood Reporter”

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I'm inclined to consider that as a possibility. Even regarding Toy Story, supposedly Joe Ranft had more to do with the story than Lasseter (he died in 2005 sadly).

That's like saying Steve Jobs doesn't get credit for the iPhone.

 

[eliza61nyc]

That was in“The Hollywood Reporter”

Wow, what an interesting article. absolutely amazing how time after time we see talented, blessed people lose their minds. I wonder why some folks can handle great success while others seemingly self destruct.