Land Sale November 18

ULPO46

Well-Known Member
Lockheed hasn't gone anywhere. They only sold the undeveloped parts of their complex that were formerly used for actual testing. I've always found it amusing that they chose to build the Orlando Eye basically right next to it. Enjoy the visual splendor of Florida... and its ugly missile factories.

There's another complex somewhere in east Orlando that's used for flight simulation.
Yes that one is on Lake Underhill road. It caused controversy a few years ago because they built a Public OCPS school right in front of it's gates. That one isn't for flight simulators, its another components facility. But I agree I never got why they built all that crap around the facility. I mean Lockheed has been in Central Florida since the time McCoy Air Force Base was founded. Way before Disney even thought about building theme parks.
 

maxairmike

Well-Known Member
You do realize that since Universal owned this for a decent amount of time they likely had at least high-level Blue Sky ideas about integrating this area into the overall resort, and that Universal Blvd. wasn't built as far as it was and named that just because it passes through Universal's main property at the north end, right? They have a base to start from, even if they "start from scratch."
 

ULPO46

Well-Known Member
You do realize that since Universal owned this for a decent amount of time they likely had at least high-level Blue Sky ideas about integrating this area into the overall resort, and that Universal Blvd. wasn't built as far as it was and named that just because it passes through Universal's main property at the north end, right? They have a base to start from, even if they "start from scratch."
For the record I am not looking at this from a stupid point of view. I am saying as someone who has an MBA in Hospitality currently working on his Phd in the subject, that this would be the first time any major theme park resort company would ever do that. As for what they had in plan it was a theme park devoted to a boy wizard. Vivendi didn't have the vision to proceed the project, sold the land, and now the wizarding world is in the two current parks. Now I am not saying this as a complete ignorant a-hole, but as an expert and employee in the industry, along side other experts, it's not in the best of interest for Universal to invest in the project. Build a park somewhere out of Orlando. Dubai fell for everyone, because of the drop in price of oil and instability in the region. But another universal park somewhere in the western hemisphere would be a huge move for them. I just do not see from an economic point of view, universal building outside it's current borders. Anyways this was dated November 18, it's Decemeber 10 I haven't heard from my friends who work at Universal that anything has happened. Anyone who works at Universal know if it's happened yet?
 

maxairmike

Well-Known Member
For the record I am not looking at this from a stupid point of view. I am saying as someone who has an MBA in Hospitality currently working on his Phd in the subject, that this would be the first time any major theme park resort company would ever do that. As for what they had in plan it was a theme park devoted to a boy wizard. Vivendi didn't have the vision to proceed the project, sold the land, and now the wizarding world is in the two current parks. Now I am not saying this as a complete ignorant a-hole, but as an expert and employee in the industry, along side other experts, it's not in the best of interest for Universal to invest in the project. Build a park somewhere out of Orlando. Dubai fell for everyone, because of the drop in price of oil and instability in the region. But another universal park somewhere in the western hemisphere would be a huge move for them. I just do not see from an economic point of view, universal building outside it's current borders. Anyways this was dated November 18, it's Decemeber 10 I haven't heard from my friends who work at Universal that anything has happened. Anyone who works at Universal know if it's happened yet?

I think you're being far too dismissive of what can be done (As a comparatively "layman" but still been in the industry long enough to have some insight). And while no actual "sale" has been completed by Universal, the land was never expected to be sold by Colony Capital (who already had debt ownership of the property) until early 2016. Universal DOES have a contract on the land to purchase it, which means there's a higher than 90% chance they'll purchase it. They're not going to purchase it to just sell it off again, and developing Major Blvd. would be a lot more expensive and a lot more difficult than this large swath of a blank slate. What they do with the WnW property I think will give us a decent clue to what they may have in mind for this patch of land.
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
For the record I am not looking at this from a stupid point of view. I am saying as someone who has an MBA in Hospitality currently working on his Phd in the subject, that this would be the first time any major theme park resort company would ever do that. As for what they had in plan it was a theme park devoted to a boy wizard. Vivendi didn't have the vision to proceed the project, sold the land, and now the wizarding world is in the two current parks. Now I am not saying this as a complete ignorant a-hole, but as an expert and employee in the industry, along side other experts, it's not in the best of interest for Universal to invest in the project. Build a park somewhere out of Orlando. Dubai fell for everyone, because of the drop in price of oil and instability in the region. But another universal park somewhere in the western hemisphere would be a huge move for them. I just do not see from an economic point of view, universal building outside it's current borders. Anyways this was dated November 18, it's Decemeber 10 I haven't heard from my friends who work at Universal that anything has happened. Anyone who works at Universal know if it's happened yet?
Building a park a few miles from another isn't exactly unprecedented. WDW's parks are separated by more distance than this, I believe it's about 7 miles from MK to DAK. Yes they own the land in between but that doesn't really matter, Disney seems content to bus their guests past wilderness and hotels this wouldn't be that different. Disney also had plans for the Disney Sea park which would have been an even greater distance from their existing resort. Many people including myself didn't think Universal would build the expansion to their HP land in a completely separate park, after all no other theme park resort had ever done anything like that. Universal obviously seems to be ok with pushing the limits of what is normal in the theme park business. If Universal is serious about purchasing this land I think there really is no doubt at all that they would build another park, they would be crazy not to with that much land.
 

EngineJoe

Well-Known Member
Building a park a few miles from another isn't exactly unprecedented. WDW's parks are separated by more distance than this, I believe it's about 7 miles from MK to DAK. Yes they own the land in between but that doesn't really matter, Disney seems content to bus their guests past wilderness and hotels this wouldn't be that different. Disney also had plans for the Disney Sea park which would have been an even greater distance from their existing resort. Many people including myself didn't think Universal would build the expansion to their HP land in a completely separate park, after all no other theme park resort had ever done anything like that. Universal obviously seems to be ok with pushing the limits of what is normal in the theme park business. If Universal is serious about purchasing this land I think there really is no doubt at all that they would build another park, they would be crazy not to with that much land.

Difference is Disney World owns all the land and has a captive market within their property. Anywhere you park or eat or lodge or purchase things in Disney World goes to Disney either directly or indirectly (in Swan & Dolphins case).

If you add the third park at Universal on the Sand Lake rd plot there will be a bunch of free riders (restaurants, hotels, parking decks, gift shops) that benefit off Universal and take away consumer $ from Universal.

For example staying at somewhere like Hilton Homewood Suites or anywhere else between Universal Studios and Sand Lake Rd. becomes a more ideal location because now you are closer to both parks and can either drive or take the Lnyx or Trolley to either park. Then you can simply eat at one of the many restaurants on I drive or Universal and also go ride things at Skyplex or Orlando Eye or any number of attractions in that area.

I liken it to a Sporting Arena or Movie Theatre. Where do they make most of the money. On concessions in the complex. Because they have a captive audience. A monopoly and can charge higher rates without competition from outsiders. That's the whole idea behind Disney World or the Universal Studios/Islands/City Walk area.
 

ULPO46

Well-Known Member
Difference is Disney World owns all the land and has a captive market within their property. Anywhere you park or eat or lodge or purchase things in Disney World goes to Disney either directly or indirectly (in Swan & Dolphins case).

If you add the third park at Universal on the Sand Lake rd plot there will be a bunch of free riders (restaurants, hotels, parking decks, gift shops) that benefit off Universal and take away consumer $ from Universal.

For example staying at somewhere like Hilton Homewood Suites or anywhere else between Universal Studios and Sand Lake Rd. becomes a more ideal location because now you are closer to both parks and can either drive or take the Lnyx or Trolley to either park. Then you can simply eat at one of the many restaurants on I drive or Universal and also go ride things at Skyplex or Orlando Eye or any number of attractions in that area.

I liken it to a Sporting Arena or Movie Theatre. Where do they make most of the money. On concessions in the complex. Because they have a captive audience. A monopoly and can charge higher rates without competition from outsiders. That's the whole idea behind Disney World or the Universal Studios/Islands/City Walk area.
Could have not said it any better myself. This isn't just a oh this land is available lets buy it type of thing. Orlando has grown so much since Universal built up to what it is today. Had they kept this land years ago and built a third park, it would have been better. Today there are simply way to many things to do, go and see, and eat. Not that I think it wont happen it's the same thing the industry sees.
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
Difference is Disney World owns all the land and has a captive market within their property. Anywhere you park or eat or lodge or purchase things in Disney World goes to Disney either directly or indirectly (in Swan & Dolphins case).

If you add the third park at Universal on the Sand Lake rd plot there will be a bunch of free riders (restaurants, hotels, parking decks, gift shops) that benefit off Universal and take away consumer $ from Universal.

For example staying at somewhere like Hilton Homewood Suites or anywhere else between Universal Studios and Sand Lake Rd. becomes a more ideal location because now you are closer to both parks and can either drive or take the Lnyx or Trolley to either park. Then you can simply eat at one of the many restaurants on I drive or Universal and also go ride things at Skyplex or Orlando Eye or any number of attractions in that area.

I liken it to a Sporting Arena or Movie Theatre. Where do they make most of the money. On concessions in the complex. Because they have a captive audience. A monopoly and can charge higher rates without competition from outsiders. That's the whole idea behind Disney World or the Universal Studios/Islands/City Walk area.
I think there is very little doubt that Universal would connect these two properties. In an ideal world they would manage to get some sort of elevated rail transportation, however lets just assume they use buses. These buses aren't going to stop anywhere in between so local businesses aren't going to benefit from this travel between the two areas. There is effectively no difference at all between this and traveling between MK and DAK. Both Disney and Universal have businesses nearby to lure people off property, the key factor is creating benefits to keep people on property. This is why we have extra magic hours and free express passes. Using Disney as an example staying between the major centers of activity is not more appealing than staying closer to the parks, by your logic Port Orleans would be more desirable than the Contemporary or Boardwalk because it's located between parks rather than very close to one of them. In Universals case it would certainly be better to be at the existing hotels or new hotels on the new land, one or two parks are right next door and the others are a short bus ride away as opposed to needing transportation to both. I really think if Universal moves forward with this they will be able to create a seamless resort experience, and yes it will take a little more out of the box thinking that what is normally taught in hospitality schools.
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
Would you care to explain the difference? Only thing I can think of is what you see out the window isn't Universal owned, and that can easily be remedied who say's the bus has to have windows. DME buses have small windows obscured by the wraps and TV's to draw your attention for this very reason.
 

EngineJoe

Well-Known Member
I think there is very little doubt that Universal would connect these two properties. In an ideal world they would manage to get some sort of elevated rail transportation, however lets just assume they use buses. These buses aren't going to stop anywhere in between so local businesses aren't going to benefit from this travel between the two areas. There is effectively no difference at all between this and traveling between MK and DAK. Both Disney and Universal have businesses nearby to lure people off property, the key factor is creating benefits to keep people on property. This is why we have extra magic hours and free express passes. Using Disney as an example staying between the major centers of activity is not more appealing than staying closer to the parks, by your logic Port Orleans would be more desirable than the Contemporary or Boardwalk because it's located between parks rather than very close to one of them. In Universals case it would certainly be better to be at the existing hotels or new hotels on the new land, one or two parks are right next door and the others are a short bus ride away as opposed to needing transportation to both. I really think if Universal moves forward with this they will be able to create a seamless resort experience, and yes it will take a little more out of the box thinking that what is normally taught in hospitality schools.

It matters little if Universal has their own rail or bus system between the two lands. Because you already have the public Lynx and Trolley buses. See there in is the difference.

On Disney World property you will not find non Disney buses competing with the Disney bus/monorail to transport people between parks/hotels/shops. It's all disney. Disney has a monopoly on the transportation. Universal will not.

Why do you think Disney World on property hotels are so expensive. Because they have a monopoly.
But in Universal's case they won't because the area between Citywalk/Universal and Sand Lot is already littered with non Universal affiliated hotels. So a significant portion of people will choose the much cheaper off property hotels that are in an ideal location and eat at cheaper but just as good or higher quality off property restaurants/fast food.
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
It matters little if Universal has their own rail or bus system between the two lands. Because you already have the public Lynx and Trolley buses. See there in is the difference.

On Disney World property you will not find non Disney buses competing with the Disney bus/monorail to transport people between parks/hotels/shops. It's all disney. Disney has a monopoly on the transportation. Universal will not.
There are plenty of non Disney buses operating on Disney property, in fact Lynx, the one you mentioned operates on Disney property.
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
You can't be serious. How about the fact you will likely never in your lifetime sit in bumper to bumper traffic on World Drive, but you will almost assuredly on I4 multiple times a day- every day- including weekends. Please give me a 45 minute trip between parks- I can't wait.

Unless they have a massive transportation plans- the transportation won't be a pleasant experience for anyone involved.
I-4? These properties are both located on Universal Blvd., this is the road known for not having the traffic issues of International Dr. or I-4. Most guides will tell you to use this road as a great travel tip. I would expect a bus ride between Universal North and South to take less time than MK to DAK. And yes I've sat in traffic on Disney property, BVD near DTD and Seven Seas have both been rather bad lately.
 

EngineJoe

Well-Known Member
There are plenty of non Disney buses operating on Disney property, in fact Lynx, the one you mentioned operates on Disney property.

Really? I wasn't aware that the Lynx bus shuttles between Magic Kingdom-Epcot-Animal Kingdom-disney property hotels. Can you show me that time table?
 

EngineJoe

Well-Known Member
Just looked at the map- you're right. For some reason I was thinking the property was west of I4- but sure enough, its right there on Universal.
Maybe they give us a nice screen based attraction bus ride w/o windows. That way we can have a warmup for all the attractions we'll be going to. :D

Harry Potter bus triple decker bus screen based (driving down streets of London). Requires park hopper ticket to all 3 park plus have to stay on Universal resort property. 60 minute wait time.
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
Just looked at the map- you're right. For some reason I was thinking the property was west of I4- but sure enough, its right there on Universal.
Maybe they give us a nice screen based attraction bus ride w/o windows. That way we can have a warmup for all the attractions we'll be going to. :D
That is after all how the road got it's name.
 

JoeCamel

Well-Known Member
Lynx runs from TTC to Disney U and to Disney springs but that is a nit that is not worth picking here. No reason Universal cannot transport between the parks in a creative and reasonable manner. IF that is what they would do with 475 acres.
 

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
Would you care to explain the difference? Only thing I can think of is what you see out the window isn't Universal owned.
That's no minor difference. There are plenty of legitimate Universal-versus-Disney debates to be had, but the fact that Disney has a single contiguous footprint for all of its parks and resorts (with enough room to expand and keep it that way) is not a point to be argued. It's an undeniable advantage that Disney holds. People talk a lot about the Disney "bubble" and its contribution to the escapism of a WDW vacation and that simply wouldn't be there if you were criss-crossing over 535 and 192 every day. You mentioned DME, but there's a HUGE difference between traveling through the "outside" world once at the beginning and the end of your vacation versus every single day to get to a quasi-off-site resort.

May I ask how you "do" Disney? If you stay off property, drive to visit off-site locations (including Universal), or live locally, then I agree you wouldn't think this is much of a big deal. But for those of us who take DME to a Disney resort and eat Disney food and take Disney transportation for five to fourteen nights, the bubble is a huge, huge selling point.
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
That's no minor difference. There are plenty of legitimate Universal-versus-Disney debates to be had, but the fact that Disney has a single contiguous footprint for all of its parks and resorts (with enough room to expand and keep it that way) is not a point to be argued. It's an undeniable advantage that Disney holds. People talk a lot about the Disney "bubble" and its contribution to the escapism of a WDW vacation and that simply wouldn't be there if you were criss-crossing over 535 and 192 every day. You mentioned DME, but there's a HUGE difference between traveling through the "outside" world once at the beginning and the end of your vacation versus every single day to get to a quasi-off-site resort.

May I ask how you "do" Disney? If you stay off property, drive to visit off-site locations (including Universal), or live locally, then I agree you wouldn't think this is much of a big deal. But for those of us who take DME to a Disney resort and eat Disney food and take Disney transportation for five to fourteen nights, the bubble is a huge, huge selling point.
I'm not denying that having contiguous property isn't an advantage. I'm simply saying that Universal can mitigate that advantage quite a bit. At the end of the day your still taking a bus between locations. Most people aren't paying attention to whats out the windows anyway. If Universal can transport you from one location to another and not let you realize that you left Universal than they can, obviously with greater effort on their part accomplish the exact same thing Disney does.
 

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