Land Sale November 18

[s8film40]

May I ask how you "do" Disney? If you stay off property, drive to visit off-site locations (including Universal), or live locally, then I agree you wouldn't think this is much of a big deal. But for those of us who take DME to a Disney resort and eat Disney food and take Disney transportation for five to fourteen nights, the bubble is a huge, huge selling point.

I have experienced it both ways. I used to vacation to WDW just as you describe, I now live local. The bubble is an illusion that Disney created. They used the large amounts of land they have to create that illusion, but that's not the only method available to create that illusion.

 

[EngineJoe]

They mostly transport from Disney to non Disney locations, I'm really not sure what point your trying to make.
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g...a:Bus.Services.From.To.Walt.Disney.World.html

It should be obvious to you.

The lynx and trolley would connect and shuttle people between Universal/City Walk and Sand Lake so are in direct competition with any Universal bus/rail between Universal and Sand Lake.

Whereas there is no Lynx bus that operates between parks in Walt Disney World. The Disney buses have a monopoly on transportation between MK, Epcot, HS, AK.

If you cannot comprehend that difference then it's understandable why you think that Walt Disney World and Universal-Sand Lot are the same thing.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I have experienced it both ways. I used to vacation to WDW just as you describe, I now live local. The bubble is an illusion that Disney created. They used the large amounts of land they have to create that illusion, but that's not the only method available to create that illusion.

I had the same experience. Visited from New England as a child and college student, then lived locally for three years, now back in New England and now I visit as an on-property seven-night guest. I'm well aware of the illusion, but it's a big part of what I pay for. I'd probably enjoy WWoHP if I ever made it up there, but I have no trouble filling my itinerary with WDW activities and I frankly can't be bothered to go through the hassle of renting a car or taking public transportation up there. The one-stop-shop of the WDW vacation is very powerful.

 

[s8film40]

It should be obvious to you.

The lynx and trolley would connect and shuttle people between Universal/City Walk and Sand Lake so are in direct competition with any Universal bus/rail between Universal and Sand Lake.

Whereas there is no Lynx bus that operates between parks in Walt Disney World. The Disney buses have a monopoly on transportation between MK, Epcot, HS, AK.

If you cannot comprehend that difference then it's understandable why you think that Walt Disney World and Universal-Sand Lot are the same thing.

Well first of all it won't exactly be hard for Universal to make their transportation more readily apparent. Big signs "to other Universal property this way" versus quarter mile walk past all the taxis and outside buses to the public transportation. Secondly if Universal can't make their own transportation method more efficient and therefore more desirable than the local county buses than they should probably give up now.

 

[s8film40]

I had the same experience. Visited from New England as a child and college student, then lived locally for three years, now back in New England and now I visit as an on-property seven-night guest. I'm well aware of the illusion, but it's a big part of what I pay for. I'd probably enjoy WWoHP if I ever made it up there, but I have no trouble filling my itinerary with WDW activities and I frankly can't be bothered to go through the hassle of renting a car or taking public transportation up there. The one-stop-shop of the WDW vacation is very powerful.

Yeah I think this is the primary reason why Universal has to take this step. They need to create a product that will capture people's attention for at minimum 3-4 days. Otherwise for some people it's just not worth the diversion.

 

[EngineJoe]

I had the same experience. Visited from New England as a child and college student, then lived locally for three years, now back in New England and now I visit as an on-property seven-night guest. I'm well aware of the illusion, but it's a big part of what I pay for. I'd probably enjoy WWoHP if I ever made it up there, but I have no trouble filling my itinerary with WDW activities and I frankly can't be bothered to go through the hassle of renting a car or taking public transportation up there. The one-stop-shop of the WDW vacation is very powerful.

And the one stop shopping fills the Disney coffers and Likely get every cent you brought to Orlando.

Harry Potter world is worth it though. At the very least you should spend a day there the next time you go. There is a Lynx bus right outside the Hilton in Disney springs that will take you to universal/city walk with one transfer. Takes some time but doable and only two dollars. I would just rent a car for that day to be honest though.

 

[EngineJoe]

Well first of all it won't exactly be hard for Universal to make their transportation more readily apparent. Big signs "to other Universal property this way" versus quarter mile walk past all the taxis and outside buses to the public transportation. Secondly if Universal can't make their own transportation method more efficient and therefore more desirable than the local county buses than they should probably give up now.

Let me ask you this. Why are you so attached to the far away sand lake lot?

Why not just make the 3rd park in the area above major blvd and above Vineland where you have the decaying doubletree and wingate that are just waiting for universal to buy.

That is a perfect spot for a 3rd park and is righ near citywalk. Especially if you start the park in the area north of the parking garage.

 

[s8film40]

Let me ask you this. Why are you so attached to the far away sand lake lot?

Why not just make the 3rd park in the area above major blvd and above Vineland where you have the decaying doubletree and wingate that are just waiting for universal to buy.

That is a perfect spot for a 3rd park and is righ near citywalk. Especially if you start the park in the area north of the parking garage.

I think that is a much better spot, I think if it were possible Universal would be pursuing it. On the other hand there is far more land in the Universal Blvd. site and so they can do more than just add a park and one or two hotels.

I think this project (currently under construction) probably also makes it more difficult to use that land.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Yeah I think this is the primary reason why Universal has to take this step. They need to create a product that will capture people's attention for at minimum 3-4 days. Otherwise for some people it's just not worth the diversion.

That would represent an shift in strategy fundamental to Universal's business model. Their strategy used to be to poach two or three days from Disney, turning a family's Disney Vacation into an Orlando Vacation. Turning Universal into the primary destination for a week-long family trip will take a lot more than a third gate for anyone other than the most hardcore Potter fans.

And the one stop shopping fills the Disney coffers and Likely get every cent you brought to Orlando.

Harry Potter world is worth it though. At the very least you should spend a day there the next time you go. There is a Lynx bus right outside the Hilton in Disney springs that will take you to universal/city walk with one transfer. Takes some time but doable and only two dollars. I would just rent a car for that day to be honest though.

We'll probably go in a few years. The baby will be 14 months when we go in January so we won't do Universal until she's big enough to enjoy more.

 

[EngineJoe]

I think that is a much better spot, I think if it were possible Universal would be pursuing it. On the other hand there is far more land in the Universal Blvd. site and so they can do more than just add a park and one or two hotels.

I think this project (currently under construction) probably also makes it more difficult to use that land.

I don't think it does. The area in question is above Major blvd and above Vineland and really are unaffected by the road work.
They have stopped fixing anything major at the Doubletree and Wingate because they are just waiting to be bought out by Universal so those hotels are falling into decay.

 

[EngineJoe]

That would represent an shift in strategy fundamental to Universal's business model. Their strategy used to be to poach two or three days from Disney, turning a family's Disney Vacation into an Orlando Vacation. Turning Universal into the primary destination for a week-long family trip will take a lot more than a third gate for anyone other than the most hardcore Potter fans.


We'll probably go in a few years. The baby will be 14 months when we go in January so we won't do Universal until she's big enough to enjoy more.

FYI, Universal, especially the Harry Potter area have really good child/rider swap rooms with benches and tvs where one adult can rid while the other watches the child and then switch adults riders.

 

[s8film40]

That would represent an shift in strategy fundamental to Universal's business model. Their strategy used to be to poach two or three days from Disney, turning a family's Disney Vacation into an Orlando Vacation. Turning Universal into the primary destination for a week-long family trip will take a lot more than a third gate for anyone other than the most hardcore Potter fans.

I think they are looking to at least split the vacations down the middle or tip more of them their way. At this point in time with there being less to offer at Disney and so much more being built at Universal. I could easily see with 3 Universal parks, if I were coming from out of the area doing 4 Universal days and 3 or 4 Disney days.

 

[s8film40]

I don't think it does. The area in question is above Major blvd and above Vineland and really are unaffected by the road work.
They have stopped fixing anything major at the Doubletree and Wingate because they are just waiting to be bought out by Universal so those hotels are falling into decay.

Just looking at the land if you don't include the land on the other side of Major Blvd. it would be a pretty small site. It could be done but would really limit what they could do. To me this would be ideal or the Dr. Phillips HS, I'm assuming because they're interested in the other site that they've decided this isn't an option. Who knows maybe they are negotiating and the contract on the other property is just to prove to those land owners that that's not their only option.

Edit: Looks like it would be about 50 acres.

 

[EngineJoe]

Just looking at the land if you don't include the land on the other side of Major Blvd. it would be a pretty small site. It could be done but would really limit what they could do. To me this would be ideal or the Dr. Phillips HS, I'm assuming because they're interested in the other site that they've decided this isn't an option. Who knows maybe they are negotiating and the contract on the other property is just to prove to those land owners that that's not their only option.

Edit: Looks like it would be about 50 acres.

Not sure which direction you are talking about on Major Blvd. But I am taking about the area above Major blvd all the way to the Florida Turnpike up to the Wingate and IHOP past Vineland and then you would also have to relocate Loews Portofino Bay as that would be the natural entrance to the 3rd park while allowing acces to City Walk/Parking deck. It's a much bigger area than Islands of Adventure and about the same size as Universal/including their backlot.

 

[s8film40]

Not sure which direction you are talking about on Major Blvd. But I am taking about the area above Major blvd all the way to the Florida Turnpike up to the Wingate and IHOP past Vineland and then you would also have to relocate Loews Portofino Bay as that would be the natural entrance to the 3rd park while allowing acces to City Walk/Parking deck. It's a much bigger area than Islands of Adventure and about the same size as Universal/including their backlot.

So I am assuming this is the area you are referring to then?

I calculate that at about 140 acres including Vineland, which obviously would be difficult to build around. None of that is impossible to make work assuming they could actually get the land from all those individual owners. Removing or relocating their top resort probably wouldn't be the best option either. I do agree it's a better location, it's a lot more work to make it work and a lot less land for additional hotels and other stuff.

 

[EngineJoe]

So I am assuming this is the area you are referring to then?

I calculate that at about 140 acres including Vineland, which obviously would be difficult to build around. None of that is impossible to make work assuming they could actually get the land from all those individual owners. Removing or relocating their top resort probably wouldn't be the best option either. I do agree it's a better location, it's a lot more work to make it work and a lot less land for additional hotels and other stuff.

Yes the white area plus portofini bay. Is the 140 including portofini? At the very least I want the bottom half of portofino as the entrance to the third gate because this way you can connect it to the parking deck and moving walkway to citywalk

 

[s8film40]

Yes the white area plus portofini bay. Is the 140 including portofini? At the very least I want the bottom half of portofino as the entrance to the third gate because this way you can connect it to the parking deck and moving walkway to citywalk

No, I did not include Portifino. Theoretically I think what your suggesting could work, but I don't think they're going in that direction.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

But $90 for a family round trip or $30 for adult round trip is well worth a visit to Universal. You'd love it. It's not Disney- nor does it want to be. But it doesn't have to be to enjoy it.

I've been when I was local. I liked it, didn't love it. Potter was cool but Potter fans grate my nerves even more than Little Princesses do. I also hold a special grudge in my heart against the film incarnations of Harry Potter. Books 1-6 were a huge part of my childhood and then the combination of the films and book 7 ruined it with the worst literary payoff of all time.

 

[s8film40]

Universal is already woefully outdated when it comes to bus transportation. In September, they finally offered airport pickup via their own transportation services- ending their contract with Mears (without even telling Mears, it seems). While that is a step in the right direction- there are still 2 glaring problems.
1- You can only use that transportation if you booked a vacation package through Universal. So if you booked your hotel through Orbitz, have Annual Passes and don't need tickets every time, etc. etc- you can't use it. So there I am- booking a Universal-only trip where I'm staying on-property and have annual passes because I go 2-3 times a year from Texas- yet I can't use their bus system to lock me into the bubble?
2- It still costs money. Are you freaking kidding?

So while Cabana Bay's busses are prompt- it has much more to do with the fact they are just 5 minutes from the bus stop. Their Bus system needs a massive reworking. Want to keep me on property? Offer a danged way to get there.

Airport and internal transportation are two completely different matters, even at Disney they are operated completely separately. Universal will certainly have some work to do in that area as transporting all those guests that distance will be a much bigger undertaking than what they are currently doing. I'm pretty sure they eventually will manage to figure something out, after all they have to. Disney had their fair share of issues as they grew their resort and in fact still do have quite a few issues.

 

[EngineJoe]

@CaptainAmerica, my friend- If it's just you or you and another adult- a simple $15-20 one way uber is the way to go. If it is a family with young children- a $45 each way Mears towncar is the way to go. I, too, would rather not rent a car (not to mention pay for parking)- nor would I go through the hassle of multiple stops and public transportation just to save- literally- 4 to 8 bucks.
But $90 for a family round trip or $30 for adult round trip is well worth a visit to Universal. You'd love it. It's not Disney- nor does it want to be. But it doesn't have to be to enjoy it.



Universal is already woefully outdated when it comes to bus transportation. In September, they finally offered airport pickup via their own transportation services- ending their contract with Mears (without even telling Mears, it seems). While that is a step in the right direction- there are still 2 glaring problems.
1- You can only use that transportation if you booked a vacation package through Universal. So if you booked your hotel through Orbitz, have Annual Passes and don't need tickets every time, etc. etc- you can't use it. So there I am- booking a Universal-only trip where I'm staying on-property and have annual passes because I go 2-3 times a year from Texas- yet I can't use their bus system to lock me into the bubble?
2- It still costs money. Are you freaking kidding?

So while Cabana Bay's busses are prompt- it has much more to do with the fact they are just 5 minutes from the bus stop. Their Bus system needs a massive reworking. Want to keep me on property? Offer a danged way to get there.

Actually Lynx is $2 from airport to universal or near hotel including transfers. It's dirt cheap compared to any other form of transport. So it's a lot more than a mere 4-8 bucks.