Labor cost cutting measures begin at Walt Disney World as the company enters Q1

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Add capacity.

If they really cared about increasing attendance without sacrificing guest satisfaction, they would add capacity where needed. There's no reason why the Magic Kingdom's last E-Ticket was Splash Mountain (and soon Tron).

If they truly cared, Great Movie Ride would have been properly refurbished, while Runaway was added to Animation Courtyard.
Correct.

adding capacity is the move that always lead to larger, year over year profits. It wasn’t jacking prices and assuming more demand for it.

the problem is that requires investments they won’t commit to now.

epcot was not a good expense in 1985….from 1995-2005 they were raking that money back in by the fistful each day.

Wall Street is all quick score. And that hurts even the most polished namebrands.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
It may have been underpriced in the past but now previous guests feel taken by the cranking of prices with no add or in somecases decreased value.

We all knew paid FP was coming but why not include or reduced price for onsite guests? Some incentive to stay onsite, to show you are a "valued" guest. Now previous guests feel they are being fleeced.

The days of "how will this impact the guests perception" are done and replaced with mitigation. IMHO its just to much change too fast.

2 of my coworkers had first time trips planned prior to the world shutting down. FP, dining reservations, what park what day, everthing planned. There onsite stay now costs 20-30% more with the now added hassle of park reservations, dining without real character experiences and finally lighting lane. They see they are getting alot less for more money and hassle and they are just not going to doing it.

My daughter always reminds me 20% of your customers generate 80% of your profit and Disney wants that 20% to be high income earners not "Joey six-pacK". But if the "whales"are at the Four Seasons and you have alienated Joey sixpack who stays at the All Stars completely, what does that do in the long term.
Correct.

rate of burn is too high.

chapek is an idiot who is not a good businessman. And Iger pushed it too far toward the end of his tenure as well.

it’s fascinating to watch the ebb and flow of this over the next 2 years? They’ll have peaks and valleys…and will claim victory and push more for their leash handlers on the street the whole time.
 

Patcheslee

Well-Known Member
This is what amazes me most about the removal of DME. Tons of people would never see what they were missing by being in the bubble the whole time, at a relatively cheap cost for Disney. Now that many of those people will have to deal with getting to/from the airport and potentially rent cars, they will be more apt to see these/experience these things.
The removal of nighttime magic hours except for Deluxe/DVC/Swan & Dolphin is a big bust for us. We usually stay moderate with a rental car. It would be cheaper to have an offsite room with more amenities and purchase admission for a night time party, than book the upper tier for admission a couple nights a week. There aren't enough perks at the moment to say onsite is the way to go. WDW has in essence become DL in regards to the 2 options.
 

Andrew25

Well-Known Member
Adding capacity with new E-ticket attractions makes crowding worse, not better. You add a new attraction that increases capacity by 8,000 per day, and you end up with 12,000 new people showing up to ride it. And Disney fans think EVERYTHING is an E-ticket.

Disney didn't need to absorb more guests, they needed to redistribute the current slate of guests away from Magic Kingdom and away from Fantasyland in particular. That's where the crowds are. So you get Toy Story Land, Pandora, Galaxy's Edge, Runaway Railway, Rat, and Guardians in relatively quick succession. That's not a light slate, that's a ton of new stuff designed to draw people out of MK.

Adding an E-ticket to Magic Kingdom is the worst possible thing they could have done. They STILL can't properly absorb the line that forms at Mine Train, and that's a crap ride that opened 10 years ago.

They can't absorb the line at Mine Train since it has poor hourly capacity for it's popularity. Disneyland has more attractions than MK, similar attendance level to MK, and still has lower waits on average.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Adding capacity with new E-ticket attractions makes crowding worse, not better. You add a new attraction that increases capacity by 8,000 per day, and you end up with 12,000 new people showing up to ride it. And Disney fans think EVERYTHING is an E-ticket.

Disney didn't need to absorb more guests, they needed to redistribute the current slate of guests away from Magic Kingdom and away from Fantasyland in particular. That's where the crowds are. So you get Toy Story Land, Pandora, Galaxy's Edge, Runaway Railway, Rat, and Guardians in relatively quick succession. That's not a light slate, that's a ton of new stuff designed to draw people out of MK.

Adding an E-ticket to Magic Kingdom is the worst possible thing they could have done. They STILL can't properly absorb the line that forms at Mine Train, and that's a crap ride that opened 10 years ago.
Considering the prices…there is no solid case to be made that adding capacity will directly correlate to increased attendance to use that capacity.

so a stable, reasonably timed expansion plan would actually alleviate the crunch…and allow for future attendance gains and profits.
 

mikejs78

Well-Known Member
They can't absorb the line at Mine Train since it has poor hourly capacity for it's popularity. Disneyland has more attractions than MK, similar attendance level to MK, and still has lower waits on average.
That's because DL has a ton of C/D ticket attractions that don't necessarily draw in new people, but are quality and absorb crowds. MK needs more of those, not more E-Tickets. And the other three parks need a lot more to make them full or 2-day parks.
 

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
They can't absorb the line at Mine Train since it has poor hourly capacity for it's popularity. Disneyland has more attractions than MK, similar attendance level to MK, and still has lower waits on average.
Disneyland had (past tense) lower *standby* waits because they didn't have free FastPass for everyone. When you factor in your three, four, five FP+ attractions at Magic Kingdom with little-to-no-wait, Disneyland does not have shorter lines.

In other worse, maybe Splash Mountain standby is 40 minutes at Disneyland and 60 minutes at Magic Kingdom, but a huge percentage of Splash Mountain riders are going through the FastPass line and waiting 5 minutes. You can't just say "60 > 40."

Considering the prices…there is no solid case to be made that adding capacity will directly correlate to increased attendance to use that capacity.

so a stable, reasonably timed expansion plan would actually alleviate the crunch…and allow for future attendance gains and profits.
Passholders don't pay daily attendance. An annual passholder visiting 50 times a year is double the attendance of that same passholder visiting 25 times a year, with no added [admission] revenue.
 

Andrew25

Well-Known Member
That's because DL has a ton of C/D ticket attractions that don't necessarily draw in new people, but are quality and absorb crowds. MK needs more of those, not more E-Tickets. And the other three parks need a lot more to make them full or 2-day parks.

I agree, E-Tickets are not the main problem.

DAK needs a few flat rides, boat, rides and omnimover to not just add capacity, but give people a reason to stay longer and keep the park open late.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
That's because DL has a ton of C/D ticket attractions that don't necessarily draw in new people, but are quality and absorb crowds. MK needs more of those, not more E-Tickets. And the other three parks need a lot more to make them full or 2-day parks.
Correct…

the problem is that they can’t decide what they want to do in the other parks?

do you want them full day filled? Or have the “little” ones feed into the bigger, more costly, more shop/booze laden areas at night?
 

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
That's because DL has a ton of C/D ticket attractions that don't necessarily draw in new people, but are quality and absorb crowds. MK needs more of those, not more E-Tickets.
Exactly, they need stupid little crappy things like Lightning McQueen's Racing Academy and, though the execution has been a failure, KiteTails.

And the other three parks need a lot more to make them full or 2-day parks.
I don't think Disney wants them to be 2-day parks, and it's the same reason why I don't think they'll ever build a fifth gate. The average American family has X vacation days and Y vacation budget. No matter how much new and incredible stuff Disney builds, they're not going to magically manifest that people have more vacation time available to them. They're happy with the idea that most guests can do everything they want to do in a 6- or 7-night stay.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I don't think Disney wants them to be 2-day parks, and it's the same reason why I don't think they'll ever build a fifth gate. The average American family has X vacation days and Y vacation budget. No matter how much new and incredible stuff Disney builds, they're not going to magically manifest that people have more vacation time available to them. They're happy with the idea that most guests can do everything they want to do in a 6- or 7-night stay.
That’s what was determined when dak was opened
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
Even still…admission price was never underpriced to any discernible level.

From a practical standpoint? Probably not. They could have crammed more people into the parks. But again, they knew their guest satisfaction numbers were hitting a wall too, and especially at Disneyland, they were very concerned about crowding projections for Star Wars Land.

Every indication we have says that prices would have increased and the APs would have been retooled, even if the pandemic hadn't happened.


but that’s a superficial analysis. The depth is that the gate charge was never designed as a “profit generator”. The prices were carefully crafted to generate profits through the paths of least resistance.

The gate prices was historically set at a balance between maximizing revenue and achieving their attendance goals. I think we all understand that they could have made more money with a higher gate cost, but I think people severely underestimate how much perceived value and satisfaction from the guest side plays into that equation.

Disney's model was to keep the admission prices on the low side, because access to the parks was seen as a motivation to get people to spend at their local Disney store, see Disney movies and buy into the lifestyle. The park experience suffered, but people kept coming and the brand did pretty well ... for YEARS.

The path of least resistance right now, may be going back to that model.


but here’s what the Bobs upset. You can’t make EVERY price a variable for maximum profit. It exposes the scheme in ways your can’t hide from not only the customers subconscious…but their active thoughts in real time. That creates problems.

I disagree. I think there were enough people out there telling Disney through special purchases, that they were willing to pay more for a better experience. Everything from private parties/extra hours and VIP tours. Sure people who can't afford those things will complain that they don't have access, but open access invalidates the experience.



Add capacity.

I won't go into the usual rant against capacity being the solution here, but I will point out that you can't keep adding capacity and spending money, in order to chase a lower admission price. If you keep adding to the parks, you have to keep increasing admission to pay for it.
 

mikejs78

Well-Known Member
Disneyland had (past tense) lower *standby* waits because they didn't have free FastPass for everyone. When you factor in your three, four, five FP+ attractions at Magic Kingdom with little-to-no-wait, Disneyland does not have shorter lines.

In other worse, maybe Splash Mountain standby is 40 minutes at Disneyland and 60 minutes at Magic Kingdom, but a huge percentage of Splash Mountain riders are going through the FastPass line and waiting 5 minutes. You can't just say "60 > 40."


Passholders don't pay daily attendance. An annual passholder visiting 50 times a year is double the attendance of that same passholder visiting 25 times a year, with no added [admission] revenue.

DL did have free FP - you only had to pay for MaxPass (on the phone). But anyone could use a kiosk to get a FP. DL just has higher capacity per hour than MK.

Exactly, they need stupid little crappy things like Lightning McQueen's Racing Academy and, though the execution has been a failure, KiteTails.


I don't think Disney wants them to be 2-day parks, and it's the same reason why I don't think they'll ever build a fifth gate. The average American family has X vacation days and Y vacation budget. No matter how much new and incredible stuff Disney builds, they're not going to magically manifest that people have more vacation time available to them. They're happy with the idea that most guests can do everything they want to do in a 6- or 7-night stay.

Epcot used to be a 2-day park... Not anymore, but it used to be... I would think making it so each one could be enjoyed over more than one day would also encourage people to come back... Because you couldn't see everything. I don't think a 5th gate is in the cards or would really solve the problem, but certainly increasing each park so to see everything would be 1+ days would help divert crowds from MK.
 

Ayla

Well-Known Member
They can refurbish the attraction without retheming it. Stuff like fixing animatronics and cleaning the sets would likely be cheaper than retheming the whole thing.
I rode Splash Mountain last week. They've given up on even pretending to put on a good show in that attraction. There are so many things that don't work/broken, it's disgusting. Multiple AA's are dead, the video of the rabbit on the backscreen wasn't on, no jumping water, etc. It's a disgrace.
 

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