Labor cost cutting measures begin at Walt Disney World as the company enters Q1

[Piebald]

I'm beginning to think M&Gs are never coming back. Bummer since my nieces/nephews are beginning to get to that prime age of enjoying Disney.

 

[Lilofan]

I think people definitely are voting with their wallets IMO. I was a DL AP for 6 years until the pandemic, no chance am I buying a "Magic Key" which is like an AP with less benefits for a higher cost.

Wife and I are hoping to do our first Universal Orlando trip soon.

If you're staying at Universal resorts, for your safety , don't venture a few traffic lights north since you end up near Raleigh St / Carver Shores and down the road the Pine ( Crime) Hills area. You are not in the safety bubble of WDW anymore. When we enjoyed UO, we did go that route to get to Colonial Drive. The areas are not on the tourist trail .

 

[Lora Baines Bradley]

People take jobs when they agree to the wages. I'm not complaining about DVC housekeeping service but when DVC or any guest in other Disney hotels stay there they can view what the hotel is offering ( ie cleaning services ).

Right, I meant in general people are complaining about DVC, not you specifically. It does seem people are finally cancelling trips due to this lack of service, but I worry this will only hurt front line CMs. Still, it’s the only way to make Disney reconsider their business practices.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

An important factor here is, I believe, Disney is not attracting the affluent guests they so desperately want. Jack and Diane are booking, Jeff and Mark are not.

The “we’ll keep away the riff raff” business model isn’t panning out. The flip flop crowd still wants to attend, the Italian loafer set does not.

Excellent point…and how it was going to be.
The “it’s luxury now” was always a pipe dream. More indicative of the economics of a decade of insanity that just ended than some type of well reasoned business plan

I've been saying what they're doing is short-sighted since before Chapek took over...and gotten slammed for it.

The question is soon going to be what are they going to do to fix it...the BoD is just as guilty as Iger and Chapek.

 

[Lilofan]

Right, I meant in general people are complaining about DVC, not you specifically. It does seem people are finally cancelling trips due to this lack of service, but I worry this will only hurt front line CMs. Still, it’s the only way to make Disney reconsider their business practices.

Yes that's true when company operations of any industry suffers, then personnel is looked into including job loss and hours cut. For the ones working it is more responsibility on their plate. Some I know not in Disney are rediscovering themselves and their talents and using that to earn extra income ( hobbies, Internet selling, etc )

 

[mikejs78]

* They were asked to do these things by the mayor of Orange County, because FL was a mess
* If there was a super spreader event attached to WDW, that would be really bad publicity - they need to convince people that they are doing things to keep people safe, as the vast majority of people want safety measures in place
* Potential liability

 

[Lilofan]

I don't think that has anything to do with it. Probably more to do with three things -
* They were asked to do these things by the mayor of Orange County, because FL was a mess
* If there was a super spreader event attached to WDW, that would be really bad publicity - they need to convince people that they are doing things to keep people safe, as the vast majority of people want safety measures in place
* Potential liability

Case in point about safety , people were aware about the alligator situation pre 2 year old guest Lane Graves fatal alligator incident at the Grand Floridian. Post incident , a number of concrete walls were built and all bodies of water at WDW now have warning signs. I've seen gators in the water when we were at Port Orleans.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Maybe it's time for all those Grilling Dads across the country to band together and save 'Ohana!

What do you say, guys -- grab your tongs and your tupenus and let's head for Orlando!!!

Sometimes you gotta Live Aloha, boys.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I would have agreed with that a year ago, and didn’t have problems with the original safety measures put in place. But once vaccines were available to everyone who wanted/needed them, it becomes a personal choice/responsibility issue.

Let's not bring that discussion into yet another thread, please.

 

[el_super]

If they lose mass appeal, that's a bunch of potential future fairly affluent customers that they are alienating.

This is all very short-sighted of Bob.

While I mostly agree with the point you're making I want to clarify something here: This isn't so much about catering to the rich, as it is realizing and understanding that what they were offering before was severely underpriced. The consequence of re-leveling pricing to appeal to the masses, are parks that are clogged with people, day and night. Rides with 100+ minute waits. Restaurants booked out months in advance. Requiring a degree in industrial engineering to understand how to use Fastpass.

They knew the old system was unsustainable way back in 2019 when they started configuring for boarding groups and virtual queues. They knew they were alienating people back then, because the place was too crowded.

The experiment of higher prices/lower crowds may end up failing to meet their targets, but it's not as if they can go back to the old system of packing in as many people as possible for the lowest possible price. We're entering no-win scenario territory here.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

While I mostly agree with the point you're making I want to clarify something here: This isn't so much about catering to the rich, as it is realizing and understanding that what they were offering before was severely underpriced. The consequence of re-leveling pricing to appeal to the masses, are parks that are clogged with people, day and night. Rides with 100+ minute waits. Restaurants booked out months in advance. Requiring a degree in industrial engineering to understand how to use Fastpass.

They knew the old system was unsustainable way back in 2019 when they started configuring for boarding groups and virtual queues. They knew they were alienating people back then, because the place was too crowded.

The experiment of higher prices/lower crowds may end up failing to meet their targets, but it's not as if they can go back to the old system of packing in as many people as possible for the lowest possible price. We're entering no-win scenario territory here.

Stop making excuses for Disney. Nothing was "underpriced".

 

[el_super]

Stop making excuses for Disney. Nothing was "underpriced".

So you were OK with the overcrowding?

 

[mikejs78]

While I mostly agree with the point you're making I want to clarify something here: This isn't so much about catering to the rich, as it is realizing and understanding that what they were offering before was severely underpriced. The consequence of re-leveling pricing to appeal to the masses, are parks that are clogged with people, day and night. Rides with 100+ minute waits. Restaurants booked out months in advance. Requiring a degree in industrial engineering to understand how to use Fastpass.

They knew the old system was unsustainable way back in 2019 when they started configuring for boarding groups and virtual queues. They knew they were alienating people back then, because the place was too crowded.

The experiment of higher prices/lower crowds may end up failing to meet their targets, but it's not as if they can go back to the old system of packing in as many people as possible for the lowest possible price. We're entering no-win scenario territory here.

I tend to agree with you but think that they over-corrected during this pandemic and did not recognize that things today and probably for the forseeable future are different than they were in 2019/early 2020.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

So you were OK with the overcrowding?

No. Do you not see that the overcrowding was purposeful?

 

[el_super]

I tend to agree with you but think that they over-corrected during this pandemic and did not recognize that things today and probably for the forseeable future are different than they were in 2019/early 2020.

Maybe... but I also think it's too soon to panic. Typically, trip planning for something like Walt Disney World occurs on six to twelve month cycle, so even without the delta variant, we would still be looking at depressed attendance. Common wisdom was that it would take two or three years for travel patterns to bounce back to normal, so we're all trying to fish out if this experiment is working without any solid control to compare it against. Disney has their guest surveys and future bookings to weigh on, and they seem to think that both are showing a strong demand for a return to WDW, so the only real conclusion (assuming they are telling the truth) is that people are booked, but just constantly pushing their trips further out.

All that said, we've already seen them take a couple steps back at Disneyland by bringing in the Magic Keys and trying to generate attendance through cheap admission. Seems pretty short-sighted if you planned to completely revolutionize your visitor patterns, to throw in the towel so soon. At the same time Disneyland's "Value" hotel option is going for $400 a night and booked at over 80% capacity ... so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Notes from Neverland]

The current resort prices are extremely high. Without Fall discounts, rack rates for many deluxe rooms are over $700 per night. Availability at the values/moderates has been spotty. Also, they have a lot of minimum stay requirements which take inventory out of the equation. It may take one glance for people to change their mind about going when the cheapest room for some days in October is over $700.

 

[Disstevefan1]

While I mostly agree with the point you're making I want to clarify something here: This isn't so much about catering to the rich, as it is realizing and understanding that what they were offering before was severely underpriced. The consequence of re-leveling pricing to appeal to the masses, are parks that are clogged with people, day and night. Rides with 100+ minute waits. Restaurants booked out months in advance. Requiring a degree in industrial engineering to understand how to use Fastpass.

They knew the old system was unsustainable way back in 2019 when they started configuring for boarding groups and virtual queues. They knew they were alienating people back then, because the place was too crowded.

The experiment of higher prices/lower crowds may end up failing to meet their targets, but it's not as if they can go back to the old system of packing in as many people as possible for the lowest possible price. We're entering no-win scenario territory here.

Severely underpriced? Compared to what?
It’s a known fact you can get very high quality food and lodging just off properly at WDW for a lot less.

So if you say WDW is Severely underpriced, what does that make the food and lodging just off properly at WDW??

Everyone knows everything is overpriced inside WDW and they just put up with it. TWDC knows this and will continue to cut costs and raise prices to benefit their shareholders, and folks will just keep coming.

 

[el_super]

No. Do you not see that the overcrowding was purposeful?

Of course it was. They prioritized cheap admissions and increasing attendance under a model where the parks were really just a medium for engagement. They kept prices artificially low compared to demand because they WANTED higher attendance, and structured their business model around recouping costs on volume (like $7 ice cream bars).

But then their guest satisfaction numbers started to slip, intent to return started to fall and they realized they couldn't keep packing more and more people into the parks. More importantly for the Wall Street crowd: there was no room for year to year growth because the parks were physically at their limits.

So everything they've done recently was toward lowering and controlling attendance.

Do you really think there is a way to have it both ways: a park that is affordable and comfortably uncrowded?

 

[el_super]

Severely underpriced? Compared to what?

I was referring mostly to the admission price. I used under-priced in this sense to mean that the demand exceeded the supply.

I do think most things inside the park are way overpriced.

 

[sullyinMT]

While I mostly agree with the point you're making I want to clarify something here: This isn't so much about catering to the rich, as it is realizing and understanding that what they were offering before was severely underpriced. The consequence of re-leveling pricing to appeal to the masses, are parks that are clogged with people, day and night. Rides with 100+ minute waits. Restaurants booked out months in advance. Requiring a degree in industrial engineering to understand how to use Fastpass.

They knew the old system was unsustainable way back in 2019 when they started configuring for boarding groups and virtual queues. They knew they were alienating people back then, because the place was too crowded.

The experiment of higher prices/lower crowds may end up failing to meet their targets, but it's not as if they can go back to the old system of packing in as many people as possible for the lowest possible price. We're entering no-win scenario territory here.

The overcrowding is a problem of their own making, though. Instead of developing instagram-worthy cupcakes every quarter (or at least alongside that very fun and cute marketing ploy), Disney could have been developing high-throughput and desirable attractions. Some type of British Isle WS attraction, Mary Poppins or otherwise, an earlier launch of Rat construction, going beyond Batuu and Andy's Backyard to make HS more than a park-hopping half-day park (looking at you, Animation Courtyard dead space), and being faster on the trigger with Pandora would have been a good start. People bring up a fifth gate all the time, and that might be out of the question, but there's a lot of "dead" space to still be developed within the four gates. Instead of ridiculously priced land/space "cruises" in smaller than DCL rooms, or concomitantly with it, a timely refurb of SSE, keeping the pump room at Livin' with the Land up and running, and other missed maintenance should be done to minimize down time of existing attractions. Shows are still shuttered, and attendance was relative gangbusters this summer. People got miffed (I know we did seeing it from afar), and cancelled or further delayed trips hoping things come back. HHN is going near-normal, debatable on how wise a move that is from a public health view, but Disney chopped MNSSHP and MVMCP to high-priced DAH events with holiday overlays.

WDW management has made their bed in the near-term. They and shareholders will need to come to terms with what that means to not only retain customers that have stuck with them through the current thin, but how to recruit not only new but once loyal visitors back to the tapstiles. As for me and my family, we'll most likely be back. But how often, and for how long, may well change if they don't find some ways to reset. The unprecedented times excuse is wearing thin when other destinations and vacation options are normalizing at a faster rate. Please, Disney, find a way to balance the Magic with the checkbook again, and stop looking only at the beans to be counted.