Labor cost cutting measures begin at Walt Disney World as the company enters Q1

[KYDVC]

Severely underpriced? Compared to what?
It’s a known fact you can get very high quality food and lodging just off properly at WDW for a lot less.

So if you say WDW is Severely underpriced, what does that make the food and lodging just off properly at WDW??

Everyone knows everything is overpriced inside WDW and they just put up with it. TWDC knows this and will continue to cut costs and raise prices to benefit their shareholders, and folks will just keep coming.

This is what amazes me most about the removal of DME. Tons of people would never see what they were missing by being in the bubble the whole time, at a relatively cheap cost for Disney. Now that many of those people will have to deal with getting to/from the airport and potentially rent cars, they will be more apt to see these/experience these things.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So you were OK with the overcrowding?

There isn’t overcrowding…at least not due to factors where “price control” is the only option

Bob did what he did intentionally…if there’s backlash now…that’s just desserts

 

[CaptainAmerica]

There isn’t overcrowding…at least not due to factors where “price control” is the only option

Bob did what he did intentionally…if there’s backlash now…that’s just desserts

Pre-COVID, you don't think crowding was sufficiently bad consistently enough to justify something like Genie+ (and building new resorts)?

I don't think they took the wrong steps, necessarily, but they absolutely botched the timeline once the crisis hit.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Pre-COVID, you don't think crowding was sufficiently bad consistently enough to justify something like Genie+ (and building new resorts)?

I don't think they took the wrong steps, necessarily, but they absolutely botched the timeline once the crisis hit.

There's no excuse for building more resorts when the parks can't comfortably handle current attendance.

The steps they've been taking may work well in the short-term...but what happens when more and more people realize they're being fleeced?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I was referring mostly to the admission price. I used under-priced in this sense to mean that the demand exceeded the supply.

I do think most things inside the park are way overpriced.

Even still…admission price was never underpriced to any discernible level.

but that’s a superficial analysis. The depth is that the gate charge was never designed as a “profit generator”. The prices were carefully crafted to generate profits through the paths of least resistance.

get people there and have them feel like they made out emptying wallets. And it worked…forever. Billions a year from mostly middle class means.
It’s the easiest profits this side of gambling.

but here’s what the Bobs upset. You can’t make EVERY price a variable for maximum profit. It exposes the scheme in ways your can’t hide from not only the customers subconscious…but their active thoughts in real time. That creates problems.

we might just be seeing the tip of the iceberg. Long overdue…actually

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Pre-COVID, you don't think crowding was sufficiently bad consistently enough to justify something like Genie+ (and building new resorts)?

I don't think they took the wrong steps, necessarily, but they absolutely botched the timeline once the crisis hit.

That theory would only work in a world with zero threat or economic recession.

they’ve got the wrong planet

 

[matt9112]

…so this is where you want to go?

Do you need a drink up on that hill?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Do you need a drink up on that hill?

Not really…but I’ll take one

the redoubt up here is easily defensed

 

[matt9112]

It's right there at the top:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.​

The biggest flaw in the constitution is its ambiguity at so many turns....you and i could disagree on what that meants etc.

 

[matt9112]

That theory would only work in a world with zero threat or economic recession.

they’ve got the wrong planet

To be fair western culture has really done a good job of creating this false narrative thats its all good all the time. Credits everywhere etc.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The biggest flaw in the constitution is its ambiguity at so many turns....you and i could disagree on what that meants etc.

Actually…most congressional historians agree that there is surprisingly little ambiguity in practical terms.

some of the most straightforward things have been taken completely on tangents for 200 years

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

To be fair western culture has really done a good job of creating this false narrative thats its all good all the time. Credits everywhere etc.

And that fed the beast for slaphead.

“genie+” was born from a very simple premise…and it’s this: they’ll pay more - they never say no.

and they are usually correct.

I hate to break it down so simply…but that is it.

they charge everyone to enter a park…then recharge to use the park…then shut it down in 80 degree weather at 7 pm to recharge to use it again.

what am I missing? Use small words.

 

[G00fyDad]

 

[CaptainAmerica]

There's no excuse for building more resorts when the parks can't comfortably handle current attendance.

I think most people on these boards vastly overestimate the percentage of guests who are staying on property. Resort occupancy and theme park attendance are barely correlated. A new resort with 300 rooms doesn't affect park crowds in any way that you'd notice.

You can’t make EVERY price a variable for maximum profit. It exposes the scheme in ways your can’t hide from not only the customers subconscious…but their active thoughts in real time. That creates problems.

Very well said.

That theory would only work in a world with zero threat or economic recession.

they’ve got the wrong planet

DVC is obviously their insulator in that respect. They can weather economic recession. They can't weather "pandemic so bad it forces even the DVC resorts to close."

 

[sullyinMT]

Pre-COVID, you don't think crowding was sufficiently bad consistently enough to justify something like Genie+ (and building new resorts)?

I don't think they took the wrong steps, necessarily, but they absolutely botched the timeline once the crisis hit.

However necessary over the past 18 months, slowly bringing resorts and restaurants back online is acceptable to most. Enough, anyway. But the shuttered shows, cancellation of the Grand Orchestra (especially when they had a new home in BatB theater for a time), and timing of Genie+ when they can't get construction crews to finish attractions and maintain what's existing looks horrible to the average vacationer. It's not that people aren't conditioned to pay for front of line at theme/amusement parks. It's the optics of not having your previous slate, cutting staffing and open hours, and still not offering the traditional discounts only to pile on another upcharge option.

Time will tell once crowds return, but I think IA$ and Genie+ could potentially be a good thing for wait times. It just stinks that it won't materialize to any meaningful experience or intangible feel to the parks by way of CM job satisfaction/livability, Pixie Dust, little theming updates, IT infrastructure to maintain it's existence, or other reinvestment (God I hope I'm wrong, there). Instead, it will likely be used to increase dividends and the value of upper C-suite stock option contracts. There was a time, at least on the surface, that TWDC operated in a more Japanese mindset of investing for the future while still targeting near-term profitability. This period in time feel completely opposite that, and many of us hope it ends soon, before it's too late.

 

[Andrew25]

Of course it was. They prioritized cheap admissions and increasing attendance under a model where the parks were really just a medium for engagement. They kept prices artificially low compared to demand because they WANTED higher attendance, and structured their business model around recouping costs on volume (like $7 ice cream bars).

But then their guest satisfaction numbers started to slip, intent to return started to fall and they realized they couldn't keep packing more and more people into the parks. More importantly for the Wall Street crowd: there was no room for year to year growth because the parks were physically at their limits.

So everything they've done recently was toward lowering and controlling attendance.

Do you really think there is a way to have it both ways: a park that is affordable and comfortably uncrowded?

Add capacity.

If they really cared about increasing attendance without sacrificing guest satisfaction, they would add capacity where needed. There's no reason why the Magic Kingdom's last E-Ticket was Splash Mountain (and soon Tron).

If they truly cared, Great Movie Ride would have been properly refurbished, while Runaway was added to Animation Courtyard.

 

[matt9112]

Actually…most congressional historians agree that there is surprisingly little ambiguity in practical terms.

some of the most straightforward things have been taken completely on tangents for 200 years

I can agree with that. Coupled with what we know the mindset was via supporting documents such as the federalist papers. I guess i worded it off. I mean to say that modern society FINDS ambiguity in almost all of it. I mean look at the scholastic argument of the second amendment its legitimately an argument over grammar. There are think tanks built around trying to stretch things as far as possible.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

DVC is obviously their insulator in that respect. They can weather economic recession. They can't weather "pandemic so bad it forces even the DVC resorts to close."

They will never run the property at profits on just DVC. It’s not possible. They also can’t really do it on just the Disney properties.

people on Disney forums are de-sensitized as to what’s east of I-4. There is a million person city designed to service funneling people onto wdw property.

they can’t wall up the property.

which is why the “it luxury now” nonsense of the last 5 years cannot succeed.

they need bodies for profits…period.

 

[Disorbust]

It may have been underpriced in the past but now previous guests feel taken by the cranking of prices with no add or in somecases decreased value.

We all knew paid FP was coming but why not include or reduced price for onsite guests? Some incentive to stay onsite, to show you are a "valued" guest. Now previous guests feel they are being fleeced.

The days of "how will this impact the guests perception" are done and replaced with mitigation. IMHO its just to much change too fast.

2 of my coworkers had first time trips planned prior to the world shutting down. FP, dining reservations, what park what day, everthing planned. There onsite stay now costs 20-30% more with the now added hassle of park reservations, dining without real character experiences and finally lighting lane. They see they are getting alot less for more money and hassle and they are just not going to doing it.

My daughter always reminds me 20% of your customers generate 80% of your profit and Disney wants that 20% to be high income earners not "Joey six-pacK". But if the "whales"are at the Four Seasons and you have alienated Joey sixpack who stays at the All Stars completely, what does that do in the long term.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Add capacity.

If they really cared about increasing attendance without sacrificing guest satisfaction, they would add capacity where needed. There's no reason why the Magic Kingdom's last E-Ticket was Splash Mountain (and soon Tron).

If they truly cared, Great Movie Ride would have been properly refurbished, while Runaway was added to Animation Courtyard.

Adding capacity with new E-ticket attractions makes crowding worse, not better. You add a new attraction that increases capacity by 8,000 per day, and you end up with 12,000 new people showing up to ride it. And Disney fans think EVERYTHING is an E-ticket.

Disney didn't need to absorb more guests, they needed to redistribute the current slate of guests away from Magic Kingdom and away from Fantasyland in particular. That's where the crowds are. So you get Toy Story Land, Pandora, Galaxy's Edge, Runaway Railway, Rat, and Guardians in relatively quick succession. That's not a light slate, that's a ton of new stuff designed to draw people out of MK.

Adding an E-ticket to Magic Kingdom is the worst possible thing they could have done. They STILL can't properly absorb the line that forms at Mine Train, and that's a crap ride that opened 10 years ago.