LA Times: Is Disney Paying Its Fair Share In Anaheim

[Deleted member 107043]

However that is not just Disney, its a systemic issue around the entire country.

On average yes, and we're starting to see workers pushing back too. I see no logic behind giving Disney a pass here.

 

[TROR]

The best way to give people "living" wages is to abolish the minimum wage entirely.

 

[Disney Irish]

On average yes, and we're starting to see workers pushing back too. I see no logic behind giving Disney a pass here.

No one is saying give Disney a pass. What is being said is that singling out Disney and the few in the Resort District, which is what this "law" would do, will not make a dent in the regions "working poor".

What really needs to be done is to work nationwide, state-by-state, and resolve the underlying issues with wage stagnation. Things like free college, universal healthcare, caps on housing prices, and yes finally minimum wage increases. But concentrating on just the last part of that, minimum wage, does nothing about the rest and still results in the same exact place we are now.

 

[21stamps]

No one is saying give Disney a pass. What is being said is that singling out Disney and the few in the Resort District, which is what this "law" would do, will not make a dent in the regions "working poor".

The above post would be so much better if it only included this paragraph.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

Disney was given an opportunity to agree to bring its wages on par with the current cost of living in Anaheim. Instead it has decided to mount a protracted fight against legislation that would require the company to pay cast members less than what it paid workers in the 80s adjusted for inflation. We have a national problem with stagnant wages in part because powerful companies like Disney work diligently to keep them that way.

What really needs to be done is to work nationwide, state-by-state, and resolve the underlying issues with wage stagnation.

And passing local legislation to correct wage stagnation created by one of the world's largest media companies in a region where living costs have skyrocketed isn't a step toward doing exactly that?

 

[SuddenStorm]

Protections go beyond wages... but they are one of the hallmarks of unions in trades at least.

What protection are these employees getting from the union?

 

[SuddenStorm]

The best way to give people "living" wages is to abolish the minimum wage entirely.

This would allow workers and employers more freedom when negotiating wages- and in California, some current minimum wage jobs pay might go up, while others might go down- but i don't see how abolishing minimum wage would give people a living wage. It might help some, but it will hurt others.

 

[Disney Irish]

Disney was given an opportunity to agree to bring its wages on par with the current cost of living in Anaheim. Instead it has decided to mount a protracted fight against legislation that would require the company to pay cast members less than what it paid workers in the 80s adjusted for inflation. We have a national problem with stagnant wages in part because powerful companies like Disney work diligently to keep them that way.



And passing local legislation to correct wage stagnation created by one of the world's largest media companies in a region where living costs have skyrocketed isn't a step toward doing exactly that?

You're trying to put the blame squarely at Disney's feet, and that just isn't the reality. Passing this specific legislation isn't going to solve this regions wage stagnation problems. In fact if passed I have a feeling it'll just make it worse. Because it does NOTHING about the rest of the issues. As I said in my previous post, concentrating on only the wage side of it without tackling the other pieces like affordable college, affordable healthcare, affordable housing, and rising costs of goods does nothing for the stagnation issue. When you concentrate on just the wage aspect all it does is push the costs of the other pieces up. Housing and rental prices will go up, healthcare costs will go up, cost of goods will go up, etc. Putting you back into an even worse wage stagnation or even deflationary issue.

Solve the other pieces first, and then the wage increase will make an actual impact. Increase the wages first, and it'll just exacerbate the issue because those increases will be pushed the cost of other parts up.

This is really one of those Economics 101 hypothetical you talk about in class being played out in real life.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

You're trying to put the blame squarely at Disney's feet, and that just isn't the reality.

You're telling us that Disney isn't to blame for providing wages that have kept up with inflation when it has the resources to do so and is actively lobbying against higher pay. That's nonsense.

Let's agree to disagree and move on.

 

[DanielBB8]

I think Disney is to blame with their support of liberal policies that encourage illegal immigration and generous worker visa allowances. So “concentrating on only the wage side of it without tackling the other pieces like“ having a large unskilled workforce consisting of foreigners born illegals taking jobs from Americans who do demand and expect higher wages.

 

[flynnibus]

What protection are these employees getting from the union?

Not being specific about their contract... but examples include:

Seniority policies...
Minimum hours...
Maximum hours without overtime...
Holiday pay...
Policies on termination...
Demerit systems...
Representation in disputes...
Limits on what the employers can expect you to do...
Policies Larousse things like dress code or who must pay for uniforms etc
Exclusives so your work is not farmed out to cheaper labor..

TL DR - you get policies in place that the employees have fought to be fair to them, not just the employer or what the minimum the law provides

 

[Disney Irish]

You're telling us that Disney isn't to blame for providing wages that have kept up with inflation when it has the resources to do so and is actively lobbying against higher pay. That's nonsense.

Let's agree to disagree and move on.

I want you to go back and read what I posted. Is Disney to blame, yes, no one ever said Disney isn't to blame, I certainly never said said they weren't. What I said was you can't put the blame JUST on them. Every single employer from the mom and pop businesss to the largest corporation is to blame. It is a nationwide issue, and JUST blaming and punishing Disney isn't going to solve the issue. What I've been talking about is trying to solve the overall issue.

Should Disney pay their cast members more, absolutely. I'm all for them paying more, but it won't resolve the issue. Those cast members are STILL going to be the working poor, they will just be the working poor making $20 per hour. And what then? What I think you still fail to realize is the cost of living will still increase beyond this newly increased wage. Because those wage increases are going to be pushed to consumers in the form of higher cost of goods, higher housing and rental costs, higher healthcare costs, etc. Meaning that it'll constantly make that "living wage" out of reach.

Until the US is ready to really tackle the larger wage stagnation issue this "law" if passed isn't going to do a damn thing. Its like trying to solve a gunshot victim with a bandaid.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

I want you to go back and read what I posted. Is Disney to blame, yes, no one ever said Disney isn't to blame, I certainly never said said they weren't. What I said was you can't put the blame JUST on them. Every single employer from the mom and pop businesss to the largest corporation is to blame. It is a nationwide issue, and JUST blaming and punishing Disney isn't going to solve the issue. What I've been talking about is trying to solve the overall issue.

Should Disney pay their cast members more, absolutely. I'm all for them paying more, but it won't resolve the issue. Those cast members are STILL going to be the working poor, they will just be the working poor making $20 per hour. And what then? What I think you still fail to realize is the cost of living will still increase beyond this newly increased wage. Because those wage increases are going to be pushed to consumers in the form of higher cost of goods, higher housing and rental costs, higher healthcare costs, etc. Meaning that it'll constantly make that "living wage" out of reach.

Until the US is ready to really tackle the larger wage stagnation issue this "law" if passed isn't going to do a damn thing. Its like trying to solve a gunshot victim with a bandaid.

There are a lot of problems to be solved for sure, on a national and state level. That doesn't mean that an immediate wage increase for the thousands of people working at DLR wouldn't make their lives better now. It would. It's one piece of the puzzle. If you want until everything is perfect, nothing will ever get done.

The answer is not to do nothing where something can be done. Our current government has no interest in helping anyone other than the very richest among us.

 

[TROR]

This would allow workers and employers more freedom when negotiating wages- and in California, some current minimum wage jobs pay might go up, while others might go down- but i don't see how abolishing minimum wage would give people a living wage. It might help some, but it will hurt others.

Let's say you're a store owner who has two employees. One of your employees does a job that's only worth $5 but, because of the state mandated minimum wage, you have to pay him $8. Your other employee, however, does a job that's worth $11, but because you have to pay employee A $3 more than he deserves, employee B also only makes $8. Rather than getting paid the value of their work, employee B is being hurt by the minimum wage system. There's also arguments to be had that removing the minimum wage can increase jobs for youth and can help businesses grow.

 

[flynnibus]

There are a lot of problems to be solved for sure, on a national and state level. That doesn't mean that an immediate wage increase for the thousands of people working at DLR wouldn't make their lives better now. It would. It's one piece of the puzzle. If you want until everything is perfect, nothing will ever get done.

The answer is not to do nothing where something can be done. Our current government has no interest in helping anyone other than the very richest among us.

Point is... you cant raise a table by lifting just one leg.

You cant fix the problem by forcing one piece in isolation.

The way other areas address standard of living isnt by just forcing higher wages. It feels good, but intentionally buries its head when it comes to consequences and short comings.

 

[Disney Irish]

There are a lot of problems to be solved for sure, on a national and state level. That doesn't mean that an immediate wage increase for the thousands of people working at DLR wouldn't make their lives better now. It would. It's one piece of the puzzle. If you want until everything is perfect, nothing will ever get done.

The answer is not to do nothing where something can be done. Our current government has no interest in helping anyone other than the very richest among us.

This may be true in the short term, but that is the very short term. What data has shown is that the markets quickly catch-up and surpass any good that wage increase tries to accomplish.

Bay Area cities have already or are in the process of increasing their minimum wage to $15 or higher. But these workers paid that higher minimum wage still can't afford to live in the areas they work, and the cost of living is only continuing to increase. So without making real change to the systemic problem you're not solving the problem. You're only putting a very small band-aid on very sick patient.

 

[SuddenStorm]

Let's say you're a store owner who has two employees. One of your employees does a job that's only worth $5 but, because of the state mandated minimum wage, you have to pay him $8. Your other employee, however, does a job that's worth $11, but because you have to pay employee A $3 more than he deserves, employee B also only makes $8. Rather than getting paid the value of their work, employee B is being hurt by the minimum wage system. There's also arguments to be had that removing the minimum wage can increase jobs for youth and can help businesses grow.

As I said in my comment, some people would benefit- but others would get hurt. Still don't see how this solves the "living wage" problem, since the only way to solve the problem is to ensure that everyone gets a living wage.

I personally don't think that a theoretical minimum living wage exists, or that any solution a bunch of observers on a Disneyland forum will actually come up with a solution that works, since reducing homelessness and poverty is something mankind hasn't been able to figure out in hundreds of years.

Removing the minimum wage will solve some problems, but it will cause others.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

I personally don't think that a theoretical minimum living wage exists, or that any solution a bunch of observers on a Disneyland forum will actually come up with a solution that works, since reducing homelessness and poverty is something mankind hasn't been able to figure out in hundreds of years.

Agreed. To be clear I don't think Disney is directly responsible for the broader issues of high living costs or chronic homelessness in Orange County.

My main issues:

• Disneyland has purposely depressed cast member wages for the past several decades so that they are completely out of whack with the cost of living in the region.
• Disney uses its massive power and resources to thwart any legislation that would increase wages for cast members while it accepts financial subsidies from the City of Anaheim.
• 10% of Disneyland's workforce has been homeless in the past 2 years while the resort aggressively increases admission prices year after year on record breaking guest spending.

 

[Disney Irish]

Agreed. To be clear I don't think Disney is directly responsible for the broader issues of high living costs or chronic homelessness in Orange County.

My main issues:

• Disneyland has purposely depressed cast member wages for the past several decades so that they are completely out of whack with the cost of living in the region.
• Disney uses its massive power and resources to thwart any legislation that would increase wages for cast members while it accepts financial subsidies from the City of Anaheim.
• 10% of its workforce has been homeless in the past 2 years while Disneyland aggressively increases admission prices year after year on record breaking guest spending.

On this I agree. However name any company and they've all lobbied the same way at some point. They all try to do what is in the best interest for their own interests.

Google for example has done the exact same thing, and has homeless engineers living in RVs in Mountain View.

I applaud your compassion by the way. I just have a different way of looking at this issue and different ways on which I believe to solve the issue. So don't think because I disagree with your approach that I am any less compassionate about the situation.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

However name any company and they've all lobbied the same way at some point.

Remember earlier when I said people were giving Disney a pass? Well here it is. Again.

I applaud your compassion by the way. I just have a different way of looking at this issue and different ways on which I believe to solve the issue. So don't think because I disagree with your approach that I am any less compassionate about the situation.

Which is why I asked that you and I agree to disagree and move on.