LA Times: Is Disney Paying Its Fair Share In Anaheim

[oo_nrb]

As I said, the job losses are REAL, and from many areas.

If we're losing a bunch of minumum wage-paying jobs, are we really losing anything? I liken it to reading advertisements for hotels online, and choosing which one to stay at. The hotel may advertise "FREE hot breakfast", but when you get down there, it's just a lukewarm toaster and some jellies. Their advertising isn't wrong, but it's certainly not what you were expecting. Similarly, not all jobs are created equally. Sure we can say that jobs "grew by 10%!", but is that growth what we should be aiming for if they're all just minimum wage jobs?

 

[Phroobar]

Too bad Disney can't just dissolve the unions and pass the cost savings unto the worker with higher wages.

 

[Disney Irish]

Too bad Disney can't just dissolve the unions and pass the cost savings unto the worker with higher wages.

I'm not usually one for dissolving unions as I think overall they have done a lot of good. But a lot of these are very top heavy and in some cases are mismanaged.

 

[Phroobar]

I believe the unions could care less about the individual worker. It's the socialist political power they enjoy. They were useful during the Industrial revolution because businesses always cheated the worker. But like a leg brace that has been left on too long, the leg becomes weak and useless.

 

[SuddenStorm]

If we're losing a bunch of minumum wage-paying jobs, are we really losing anything? I liken it to reading advertisements for hotels online, and choosing which one to stay at. The hotel may advertise "FREE hot breakfast", but when you get down there, it's just a lukewarm toaster and some jellies. Their advertising isn't wrong, but it's certainly not what you were expecting. Similarly, not all jobs are created equally. Sure we can say that jobs "grew by 10%!", but is that growth what we should be aiming for if they're all just minimum wage jobs?

If someone isn't capable, educated enough, or skilled enough to work a job that isn't minimum wage, than losing that job is a big deal.

If a family is able to make ends meet with two minimum wage jobs, but then those jobs get lost and they can't find replacement jobs, than losing the job was a big deal.

If a teenager is trying to enter the workforce and has no prior work experience, not having that minimum wage job is a big deal.

If a college student needs a part time job to work while in school, that's flexible with hours- than losing that minimum wage job is a big deal.

Minimum wage jobs are an important part of the economy.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

Too bad Disney can't just dissolve the unions and pass the cost savings unto the worker with higher wages.

This makes no sense. Disney has flat out stated that it is opposed to higher pay and is actively lobbying hard to keep wages in the region stagnant. Maybe unions haven't been as effective as they could be, but considering the unlimited resources Disney has to fight them combined with the considerable power it wields over the local government no one should be surprised.

 

[Phroobar]

This makes no sense. Disney is against higher pay and is lobbying hard to keep wages in the region stagnant. Maybe unions haven't been as effective as they could be, but considering the unlimited resources Disney has to fight them combined with the considerable power it wields over the local government no one should be surprised.

That's not hard to understand. Remove the unions from the equation and use the money Disney uses to fight them and the local government and give it to the employees. Employees win with no union dues and higher wages with no new cost to Disney.

 

[SuddenStorm]

There might be something I don't understand- but isn't the point of a union to get higher wages, better hours and conditions for the employees?

So the fact that DL employees are making minimum, working inconsistent and undesirable schedules means that the unions have failed, making any union dues paid a waste of money for the employee?

Yes, they're trying to get the pay up now, but isn't this one of those to little to late scenarios? The damage has been done.

When I was working at Six Flags in high school- I was making .25 over minimum, and had a fairly consistent schedule- with no union.

Is there something I'm missing here?

 

[TP2000]

There might be something I don't understand- but isn't the point of a union to get higher wages, better hours and conditions for the employees?

So the fact that DL employees are making minimum, working inconsistent and undesirable schedules means that the unions have failed, making any union dues paid a waste of money for the employee?

Yes, they're trying to get the pay up now, but isn't this one of those to little to late scenarios? The damage has been done.

When I was working at Six Flags in high school- I was making .25 over minimum, and had a fairly consistent schedule- with no union.

Is there something I'm missing here?

Nope, you aren't missing anything. That sums it up nicely regarding this hotel workers union. They have simply failed their dues-paying members for years and years now.

 

[21stamps]

There might be something I don't understand- but isn't the point of a union to get higher wages, better hours and conditions for the employees?

So the fact that DL employees are making minimum, working inconsistent and undesirable schedules means that the unions have failed, making any union dues paid a waste of money for the employee?

Yes, they're trying to get the pay up now, but isn't this one of those to little to late scenarios? The damage has been done.

When I was working at Six Flags in high school- I was making .25 over minimum, and had a fairly consistent schedule- with no union.

Is there something I'm missing here?

Almost every high school and college kid in my neighborhood works at Cedar Fair’s King’s Island. All (edit-) start out slightly above minimum wage, without a union, good resume experience. They all love it. It’s a seasonal park, so a bit different.. but I’m missing something as to why any amusement park/theme park needs a union.

 

[TP2000]

http://www.anaheimblog.net/2018/05/...-to-oppose-the-anaheim-job-killer-initiative/

>>
LA-OC Building Trades Council Votes Unanimously to Oppose the Anaheim Job Killer Initiative

ANAHEIM – The Los Angeles-Orange County Building and Construction Trades Council, representing 48 local unions/affiliate councils and over 100,000 hardworking skilled trades members, announced today that they had voted unanimously to oppose the so-called Anaheim Resort Living Wage Initiative, also known as the Anaheim Job Killer Initiative.


The Building Trades Council said that while they believe in higher wages for working people, the proposed initiative is flawed because it seeks to impose them at the ballot box rather than at the negotiating table; it unfairly targets hotels that have agreed to Project Labor Agreements that bring high-paid, skilled construction jobs to local workers and veterans; and does not embrace the principles of increasing union membership, which coupled with hard work and personal improvement is the only long-term path to better pay and conditions for workers.


Ron Miller, Executive Secretary for the Council, release the following statement:

“The hardworking men and women of the many affiliates of the Los Angeles/Orange Counties Building and Construction Trades Council have voted unanimously, through their delegates, to oppose the so-called Anaheim Resort Living Wage Initiative. This measure will cost our members jobs, including jobs targeted to local residents and veterans in Anaheim, and therefore hurt Anaheim communities.”


“We are dedicated believers in higher wages for working people, so we do not take this position lightly. But when this proposal is viewed fairly, it is clear that it does more harm than good and should be opposed.”


“The proposal unfairly targets construction projects that our members fought hard to ensure would be built with only union, trade labor under a Project Labor Agreement. These projects give local Anaheim and Orange County residents and veterans who are members of the building trades the opportunity to make a good wage while working close to home. By emphasizing local hire, the higher wages that come with union construction labor also stay close to home and allow our members to be better participants in their community.”


“We have heard directly from targeted hotel developers that they would cancel projects if this measure were to become law, costing our members at least 3,000 jobs as well as the chance to work in the community where they live.”


“Finally, this proposal also does nothing to advance the cause of union membership. Similar measures in other cities have created incentives for employers to facilitate union membership, but this proposal does not contain those provisions. We strongly believe that workers bargaining collectively is the best way to achieve higher wages, and in that important measure, this proposal also falls short.”


“The proposed ARLWI does not advance the organization of working people, and thus will not improve the lives of hard-working Anaheim residents. It will in fact do them harm by costing thousands of jobs. Join us in voting no!”


The Building Trades Council pledged to work with the existing business-labor-community coalition to oppose the measure should it qualify for the ballot.<<

This is key. And it's also funny.

The Building Trades Council, a powerful union representing skilled tradesmen in the construction industry, has opposed the measure and directly opposed the hotel workers union representing unskilled workers. Ouch.

This line from their official statement sums it all up, after repeatedly referencing the "high-paid and skilled" workers they represent....

"which coupled with hard work and personal improvement is the only long-term path to better pay and conditions for workers."

Personal improvement?!? Yeah, they went there.

So basically they are saying don't be a 37 year old unskilled bellhop living in your parent's basement and then complain when you are only being paid a dollar or two above minimum wage. Or be a barmaid for 30 years at the same hotel and complain about your employer and how unfair they are. Go learn a skill, better yourself, study, work hard, and get a higher paying skilled job instead of an entry-level unskilled job.

Or you'll get stuck being a bellhop in a long-term union contract that agreed to raise wages below the rate the state government was already raising them a dollar per year for six consecutive years.

And seriously, who thinks that by the 2020's we won't have robot bellhops shuttling our luggage and shopping bags around the hotel instead of a 37 year old man? Then what is he going to do? Something tells me he won't have gone to school to become a robot mechanic/technician, but will still be living in his parent's basement complaining about his entry-level wage somewhere.

 

[SuddenStorm]

Almost every high school and college kid in my neighborhood works at Cedar Fair’s King’s Island. All slightly above minimum wage, without a union, good resume experience. They all love it. It’s a season park, so a bit different.. but I’m missing something as to why any amusement park/theme park needs a union.

I know that Universal Studios employees are unionized as well.

While I knew a number of people working at Six Flags hated it, I also had (and have) a number of friends who loved their time there, or still work there and love it. As far as entry level jobs go, an amusement park is tough to beat.

I'd be curious to see how the unions impact working at Disneyland and Universal, and how they effect employee satisfaction, pay, and working conditions- especially when compared to non unionized parks like Six Flags and King's Island.

 

[SuddenStorm]

So basically they are saying don't be a 37 year old unskilled bellhop living in your parent's basement and then complain when you are only being paid a dollar or two above minimum wage. Or be a barmaid for 30 years at the same hotel and complain about your employer and how unfair they are. Go learn a skill, better yourself, study, work hard, and get a higher paying skilled job instead of an entry-level unskilled job.

Or you'll get stuck being a bellhop in a long-term union contract that agreed to raise wages below the rate the state government was already raising them a dollar per year for six consecutive years.

And seriously, who thinks that by the 2020's we won't have robot bellhops shuttling our luggage and shopping bags around the hotel instead of a 37 year old man?

Thanks for saying this. Excellent post.

 

[TP2000]

Thanks for saying this. Excellent post.

I know everyone here likes to think of me as some monocle-wearing version of Thurston Howell III. But in my youth I was a dues-paying Teamster for a few years after I got out of the service and was going to college part-time. I'm familiar with unions and the good they do for skilled and highly-trained workers, especially in sometimes dangerous fields like the building trades, petro-chemical industries, mechanics, etc..

But an unskilled middle aged bellhop complaining at a City Council meeting about the wages his union contract dictates? The mind boggles.

 

[21stamps]

I know that Universal Studios employees are unionized as well.

While I knew a number of people working at Six Flags hated it, I also had (and have) a number of friends who loved their time there, or still work there and love it. As far as entry level jobs go, an amusement park is tough to beat.

I'd be curious to see how the unions impact working at Disneyland and Universal, and how they effect employee satisfaction, pay, and working conditions- especially when compared to non unionized parks like Six Flags and King's Island.

I don’t have time to look it up right now, but I would be curious about Knott’s Berry Farm employee satisfaction. They’re a Cedar Fair Park and definitely not unionized.

 

[flynnibus]

There might be something I don't understand- but isn't the point of a union to get higher wages, better hours and conditions for the employees?

So the fact that DL employees are making minimum, working inconsistent and undesirable schedules means that the unions have failed, making any union dues paid a waste of money for the employee?

Yes, they're trying to get the pay up now, but isn't this one of those to little to late scenarios? The damage has been done.

When I was working at Six Flags in high school- I was making .25 over minimum, and had a fairly consistent schedule- with no union.

Is there something I'm missing here?

Protections go beyond wages... but they are one of the hallmarks of unions in trades at least.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

I know everyone here likes to think of me as some monocle-wearing version of Thurston Howell III. But in my youth I was a dues-paying Teamster for a few years after I got out of the service and was going to college part-time. I'm familiar with unions and the good they do for skilled and highly-trained workers, especially in sometimes dangerous fields like the building trades, petro-chemical industries, mechanics, etc..

But an unskilled middle aged bellhop complaining at a City Council meeting about the wages his union contract dictates? The mind boggles.

While you aren't wrong in your overall assessment of the unions and their failings, none of that has anything to do with the real issue: purposely depressed wages combined with the skyrocketing cost of living.

According to Matt Coker, who worked as a seasonal part-time cast member at Disneyland during a massive worker strike at the park in 1984, "Permanent part-timers performing the same duties as me earned $7 to $10 an hour". Using an online CPI inflation calculator that $10 an hour wage in 1984 translates to $24.59 today.

I hate to break it to you guys but it's evident that The Happiest Place on Earth has intentionally kept wages low for decades while its parent grew into a $150 billion organization and the cost of living for its workers shot through the roof. I think it's unconscionable that Disney, along with the local Chamber of Commerce, is pretending that this situation is the fault of workers who've worked hard for years contributing to the company's incredible success.

 

[Disney Irish]

While you aren't wrong in your overall assessment of the unions and their failings, none of that has anything to do with the real issue: purposely depressed wages combined with the skyrocketing cost of living.

According to Matt Coker, who worked as a seasonal part-time cast member at Disneyland during a massive worker strike at the park in 1984, "Permanent part-timers performing the same duties as me earned $7 to $10 an hour". Using an online CPI inflation calculator that $10 an hour wage in 1984 translates to $24.59 today.

I hate to break it to you guys but it's evident that The Happiest Place on Earth has intentionally kept wages low for decades while its parent grew into a $150 billion organization and the cost of living for its workers shot through the roof. I think it's unconscionable that Disney, along with the local Chamber of Commerce, is pretending that this situation is the fault of workers who've worked hard for years contributing to the company's incredible success.

I'm just curious, really I am, how an anecdote from 1984 has anything to do with today? That is 34 years ago, completely different time, business and political climate, and Disney was in the middle of trying to prevent a hostile takeover.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

I'm just curious, really I am, how an anecdote from 1984 has anything to do with today?

Because it demonstrates that at one time Disney actually paid it's cast members a living wage, something the park refuses to do now and something that it is literally lobbying against.

Take a look at this salary report from Glassdoor. If it's to be believed wages at Disneyland have barely budged from when Matt Coker was a temporary part-time cast member in the 80s, yet the region has become one of the most expensive places to live in the US.

 

[Disney Irish]

Because it demonstrates that at one time Disney actually paid it's cast members a living wage, something the park refuses to do now and something that it is literally lobbying against.

Take a look at this salary report from Glassdoor. If it's to be believed wages at Disneyland have barely budged from when Matt Coker was a temporary part-time cast member in the 80s, yet the region has become one of the most expensive places to live in the US.

However that is not just Disney, its a systemic issue around the entire country. Wages have remained stagnant since the 1970s. And there are many factors to that including globalism. Its a very large complex issue that is going to take a multi-pronged approach to resolve. But forcing raising the minimum wage of what amount to a single company isn't going to resolve it.