Kevin Yee- Airing of Grievances

[SirLink]

Winter break??? Ah wish the kids would lose their internet access... So peaceful and quiet without the nonsense...

But, then again, TDO got wind of this thread and sent their brainless apes (plants) to derail a once again negative thread...

So true...I need a break...trying to get the train booked for a weekday fling to DLP ...

 

[Rasvar]

If Walt Disney World is only about kids, why have a wedding chapel, bars and convention centers? That was just a foolish statement. You aren't keeping places like Victoria & Alberts or the California Grill for kids.

 

[OldLiner]

Very seldom poster, but frequent lurker. Have been to WDW 14 times since my first visit in 1979 and just got back from Orlando after being there from Friday the 14th thru this past Monday. Overall we had a very good time, and I think Port Orleans Riverside (where we stayed) is a wonderful resort. But for the very first time ever, a number of things at WDW either disappointed me or just plain ticked me off.

Animal Kingdom in its current state is nothing short of a big, huge pile of fail. There was no Yeti at all on Expedition Everest (Sunday 12/16). Just a dark tunnel at the end with what I think may have been a pair of red, glowing eyes staring down from above. Based on the low number of attractions at this park, Disney needs to seriously chop down the admission price for a One Day pass. I feel sorry for the families who actually pay $90 per person to attend AK. Anyways, I decided that AK is officially off my "Must Do" itinerary next time I'm at WDW.
Yak and Yeti is a very enjoyable restaurant, though.

Riverside AND French Quarter resorts have SHARED bus service from Hollywood Studios, EPCOT, and Animal Kingdom. Unbelievable. Two resorts sharing bus transportation made for ridiculously crowded buses.
Also on the topic of bus service...90 minute bus ride back to MCO on Disney's Magical Express. Next time, I'll look into renting car and driving to the parks and airport.

Attended the Very Merry Christmas Party. Don't get me wrong, in and of itself, it was pretty cool to see the parades, fireworks and the castle lighting. But was it worth $65 per ticket? Ummmmm, heck no. And waiting 10 minutes for cheap hot chocolate and cookies was weak sauce.

Very old, fuzzy picture quality on Philharmagic, Muppets, American Adventure, Great Movie Ride, and Bug's Life. If every major NFL and college football stadium can invest in high-res jumbotrons, no reason WDW can't update. They are all excellent shows, and would really, really benefit from a technology upgrade.

EPCOT was open until 9:30, but a good chunk of Future World rides had closed by 8:30. Hey WDW, seeing as how the Test Track stand-by was at 80 minutes, I would have really appreciated Imagination and The Land being open. As it was, we left EPCOT an hour earlier than we would have had all of the attractions stayed open until park closing time.

Anyways, despite the complaints, I'm still a Disney lover. Was pleased with the Little Mermaid ride. It made me smile. Love the Pineapple Dole Whip at Aloha Isle and all of the great candy from World Showcase. But next Disney trip will almost definitely be to Anaheim to experience Cars Land. Next trip to WDW...probably not until the new Snow White ride is open.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Replace Alien Encounter with Stitch. Replace Timekeeper with Mike Wazowski. Replace If I Had Wings with Buzz Lightbeer. Plop Stitch's Supersonic Sale-abration in the middle of Tomorrowland. Replace toad with pooh. The largest expansion in the MKs history consists of a Little Mermaid ride and princess meet and greets.

Is it any wonder that anyone who doesn't have toddlers wants to avoid the place like the plague. A day at Disney is like a 12 hour flight next to a screaming 2 year old.

Oooo, sign me up!

 

[The Empress Lilly]

we rode Maelstrom this morning, and everything was copacetic.

Now there's a word I've never heard before! Awesome! Is it old-fashioned? Slang? Is it everyday speech or used for literary effect?

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Parks are so bad quality wise, yet they are filled every time I go down there.

/smirk.

99% of people don't have a problem with them, the 1% that do provide better comedy than a Dean Martin roast.


Jimmy Thick- Just look at this dais...

Well, popularity does not imply quality. But otherwise, yes, you are right. The joke is on us. I'm complaining about slipping standards while saving up for my next holiday. The joke is on me.

What can I say? I readily admit to being a Disney junk. WDW succeeded in getting me addicted when I was young. I can now not set myself free anymore.
I do, however, question wheteher i should let the next generation suffer the same fate. An to think that once I couldn't think of a greater pleasure than to introduce the young ones to one of my childhood'' greatest delights!

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Empress, I forced myself to take a vacation to someplace other than Disney just to recalibrate my senses. Spend 5 days at Cheeca Lodge and you'll have a much easier time not paying for what Disney is offering.

http://www.cheeca.com/

 

[wm49rs]

Now there's a word I've never heard before! Awesome! Is it old-fashioned? Slang? Is it everyday speech or used for literary effect?

Since I have no indication of your sarcasm level, I'll just assure you that it is a word I use often, and is a more than adequate adjective to describe the ride today.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Since I have no indication of your sarcasm level, I'll just assure you that it is a word I use often, and is a more than adequate adjective to describe the ride today.

No sarcasm. Just trying to brush up on my transatlantic English and its vocabulary.

'Copacetic' would be the opposite of 'this place is, like, totally ghetto'?

 

[wm49rs]

No sarcasm. Just trying to brush up on my transatlantic English and its vocabulary.

'Copacetic' would be the opposite of 'this place is, like, totally ghetto'?

I don't know; can honestly say that I've never used that term. But copacetic does refer to something being completely satisfactory. So, there you go....

 

[wdwfan4ver]

Just got back from 9 days in the World. Had a total blast and the KIDS loved it. WDW is totally geared to kids and in that respect I take issue with several of Kevin's grievances.
1st- that the price of anything (tickets, food, lodging, private events) is to high- that's silly and wrong, as long as there is a customer base willing to pay (i.e. me and tens of thousands of others) then the product is not overpriced. I am happy to shell out extra money for resort rooms, the convenience of food and WDW buses is well worth it because I have 3 small kids. Same thing with private ticket events- most MVMCP have been sold out in Dec.I remember when EMH at night were an extra fee and I loved it because the lines were really short and often DW and I were close to the only ones left at FW some nights- well worth the money if I want to spend it.

2nd- Ride conditions/maintenance- once again I am focused on my kids' experience and whether they are having a good time. I took DD (4yrs.) on Splash for the first time, it was so much fun and there is still so much working on the ride it was great. ToT looks as good as it did 13 yrs. again when I rode it for the 1st time. The only problem I saw that actually bothered me was the tarps on Splash. And Backlot tour- what the heck is up with the Backlot tour. Anything you all say about that ride I'll agree with.

3rd - park hours- they were just fine for us, again small kids can't stay out all night. Plus I seem to recall several times over the summer/fall when operating hours were extended on several nights.

4th- fastpass- Kevin cannot possibly have children or he would never besmirch the wonderful joy that is fastpass. With kids that need to potty, eat, diaper change constantly, etc., being able to walk on popular rides is priceless. I can't wait for fastpass plus so I can pre-reserve wait times- this was the second trip where Toy Story Mania was not an option- we just can't get the kids to HS in time to get a regular fastpass.

To give an overall assessment I would just say that Disney have been catering more and more to families, especially those with small kids. Why? Because we spend more money. Every time the 6 of us ate, slept (AoA), or bought merchandise, we spent more money than a teens/adults looking to go on rides constantly.

The New Fantasy land is great- and geared toward little kids. We loved Mermaid and the whole circus area. I was blown away by the magnitude of the Seven Dwarfs mine coaster and will definitely be back shortly after it opens. With another baby in tow.

With fastpass+ in hand.

You sound like a plant. It is possible for a person to complain, but still enjoy going to WDW. The last trip I went to WDW, I had a great time. The thing is you have to be blind to recongize there isn't attractions breaking down. Soarin' was down for 15 minutes when I was there over 3 months ago.

WDW isn't just targeted for kids. Horse and Carriage rides are offered at Port Orleans Riverside and at Fort Wilderness. Those rides actually can't be targeted towards kids only since they allow alcohol on the carriages rides. That means a carriage can be romantic for a couple in terms of enjoying a carriage ride and drinking wine. WDW recognizes people that celebrate their wedding anniversary matter of fact by giving the married couple balloons and other stuff at their table service restaurants. WDW also provides wedding services like others mentioned. WDW also has table service places that are for couples like others mentioned.

Walt Disney himself wanted his parks to be for all ages and to have the adults enjoy themselves as much as the kids do.

 

[Rasvar]

Yes...

...but, that's the designer's perspective. The designer always wants more money to realise ever more ambitious dreams. There is no limit.
Everybody loves to spend his time devising up awesome rides. Browsing the glossy brochures of show equipment companies. But as these go, there is no limit to the amount of money one can spend on them. One can spend a milion dollar on a home audio system alone, never mind on a alrge-scale theatrical audio set-up.

There has to be budgetary control. This works twofold: to guard over the budget, period. And to make sure that the budget is spend evenly, that is, for example, that not twelve million is spend on audio alone for a twenty million ride. That would leave lipstick on a pig - which nevertheless every desinger of every show aspect would happily do if given the chance. Which lighting engineer couldn't do much more 'if only they would've given me a proper budget...'

The whole of EPCOT was build with severe time and budgetary restraints. Horizons was the cliff-notes version of what was planned. But great design is not 'dreamig up the greatest design imaginable', but accepting budgetary constraints and then conjuring up a killer design within those limitations. The budget of Horizons was severly cut, the ride shortened. Still, the designers played the hand they were dealt and gave the best they could within the limitations they were set.

I agree with this. Some of the best part of Disney was being creative and inventive on those tight budgets. A tight budget does not mean something has to be cheap. But, sometimes you have to take a chance and gamble that something will work.

I will use Under the Sea as an example. For DCA, I thought the attraction worked based on the limitations. Things could have been better with more money but there was a budget. The main work was to establish it in the footprint of an existing building. This forced the a lot of the layout and story. I think it is a fine attraction for DCA given what they had. Now for New Fantasyland, it is disappointing. Cheapness is the only reason to plop the exact same ride down in WDW. Building footprint was not an issue. Any number of scenes could have been upgraded or extended making the attraction a worthy addition. Instead of doing that, all the money was shoved into the focusing of nextgen for waiting in the queue line. I will probably never see it. I have no intention of spending 60-120 minutes waiting in a queue for the attraction. If I see it it will be fastpass. Don't get me wrong. I think theming the queue is a nice touch. However, the attraction itself should be the big draw. The Little Mermaid could have been a high D quality attraction if they had put extra work into the ride itself. Instead it is simply a middle C. Not even really one of those memorable ones either. The effects used were less than Peter Pan in many areas.

I might be in the minority but the new Test Track is pretty bad in my opinion. It makes no sense and looks like a dime store version of Tron. It did not even meet my low expectations. At least the original Test Track made some sense to the story of the ride. This looks like someone said, "lets throw some cool Tron looking stuff in and call it a simcar" and then forgot that people had to ride in it. It could have been cool it some more effort, not even money, was put into the development of the project.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Copacetic means cosmic with rhythm. It's a hippy thing.

 

[George]

I've been as a kid (70's and 80's) , young adult (90's) and as Al Bundy (00's and 10's). Once a kid is over 5 or so their likes aren't that much different than most adults. My 9y/o loves Maelstrom and I'm sure if he rode it and noticed things were broke and didn't look right he'd find it disappointing. The only difference in my attitude about theme park vacations is that now that I'm paying for 4 people I really want excellence if you're going to charge me prices that imply excellence.

 

[danlb_2000]

I don't get to Disney that often, but every time I go I have a great time. Personally I really don't notice a lot of the declines in quality that people mention here, BUT that doesn't mean I am going to be dismissive or apathetic when they are pointed out. It's hard to deny that there is a decline in quality, an even though it might not currently effect my enjoyment I worry that some day it might reach the point where it does, or that they may cut something that I really do care about.

And as for the comment about it being "just a vacation destination", yes it might be for most guests but for the people who frequent these boards it's obviously much more. Pretty much everything, vacation destination, TV show, movie, musical act, etc. has an ardent group of fans who study the details more then the average person, and I see nothing wrong with that. These people are likely to notice the problems first, doesn't mean that those problems won't eventually start being notices by the masses.

 

[Californian Elitist]

As many of you know, I've yet to visit Florida, let alone WDW. Saying that, Kevin's article (nicely done, BTW!) and the pictures posted on MiceChat make WDW a turnoff for me, honestly. VERY disappointing, especially since I've been dreaming of going to WDW since I was a child. *sigh*

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

As many of you know, I've yet to visit Florida, let alone WDW. Saying that, Kevin's article (nicely done, BTW!) and the pictures posted on MiceChat make WDW a turnoff for me, honestly. VERY disappointing, especially since I've been dreaming of going to WDW since I was a child. *sigh*

And if you had gone when you were a child you might have loved it (like I did when I was a child). At this point, even as an absolutely die hard WDW fan, I can't recommend you visit at this point in time. Especially as you're a frequent Disneyland visitor who is used to that classic level of quality. From what Lee has said there may be a Disneyland style turn-around regarding maintenance starting within the year, maybe. It might be better to at least wait until we see whether this happens. As a fan of WDW, i'd hate for a newcomer who is accustomed to the Disney excellence still in effect at other Disney parks around the globe to come in and get a bad first impression of WDW (potentially writing it off and never coming back when or if things ever get better here).

There was once a time when I wouldn't hesitate to say go to WDW if you have the chance. I know I grew up with WDW and was always yearning to return whenever I wasn't there (you could say I had a definite pixie dust addiction, though at the very least what I was addicted to was at that point an undoubtedly quality product). But not so much anymore. I'm finding myself making a decision not to return for a while until there is some sort of turn around. These are dark times at the World but it's good to know there's potential hope on the new horizon. There's so much great potential for recovery and even greatness once again but it needs time, care and money pumped into its veins to revive it.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

An off hand guess as to what kind of money it would take to bring the World back up to snuff including a new monorail fleet and refurb to all the mid 90s hotel rooms along with general park maintenance across the property is approaching the 4 billion mark. And that doesn't include any new attractions. That is simply to repair/replace the crumbling infrastructure and attraction maintenance.

 

[Californian Elitist]

And if you had gone when you were a child you might have loved it (like I did when I was a child). At this point, even as an absolutely die hard WDW fan, I can't recommend you visit at this point in time. Especially as you're a frequent Disneyland visitor who is used to that classic level of quality. From what Lee has said there may be a Disneyland style turn-around regarding maintenance starting within the year, maybe. It might be better to at least wait until we see whether this happens. As a fan of WDW, i'd hate for a newcomer who is accustomed to the Disney excellence still in effect at other Disney parks around the globe to come in and get a bad first impression of WDW (potentially writing it off and never coming back when or if things ever get better here).

There was once a time when I wouldn't hesitate to say go to WDW if you have the chance. I know I grew up with WDW and was always yearning to return whenever I wasn't there (you could say I had a definite pixie dust addiction, though at the very least what I was addicted to was at that point an undoubtedly quality product). But not so much anymore. I'm finding myself making a decision not to return for a while until there is some sort of turn around. These are dark times at the World but it's good to know there's potential hope on the new horizon. There's so much great potential for recovery and even greatness once again but it needs time, care and money pumped into its veins to revive it.

I wouldn't even consider going to WDW at this time. I've waited twenty years, I can stand to wait some more. I definitely don't want a bad first impression of the place, and if I were to go now, knowing everything that's going on, that wouldn't be fair at all and I'd be setting myself up for disappointment.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

I know how you feel, my only 3 visits to Disneyland occurred in 2001/2002. My impression of the place it peeling paint, bald thatched roofs, and a lame second gate.